Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris_Halkides]

errors on either side

Most posters on the pro-prosecution side say 11pm.

On Steve Moore, the videos of him claiming "waterboarding", "beating" and 14 hours are up on PMF. Since he did say these things, what do you have to say to it. Silly and gross exaggeration which very much undermines his credibility...isn't it? There's been a bit of a deafening silence on my earlier post.

SomeAlibi,

I have time only for an incomplete reply right now, but I might be able to write something longer later. I will take as a given that Mr. Moore has made erroneous statements. I believe that Mr. Moore said something along the lines of the interrogation stopping just short of waterboarding. That distinction is important; waterboarding is at the far end of touchless coercion, but I believe that there is a continuum of coercive techniques. I think we can all agree that Ms. Knox was at least cuffed; maybe not a beating, but not acceptable, either. Mr. Moore claimed that Ms. Knox was interrogated for eight hours at IIP. That is a little longer than I believe to be the case (6:45-7:45 hours). The argument about the number of hours or exactly how coercive the interrogation techniques were misses the more central point, that the interrogation was not designed to get at the truth, nor did it.
l

My explanation is that Mr. Moore was initially unused to speaking on TV and made some misstatements due to nerves (and possibly also due to being less familiar with this case at first). An easy way to falsify this hypothesis would be to see whether the number of errors he has made has stayed the same over time or gone down over time. If one wants to acknowledge his errors, fine. If one does not acknowledge errors in Harry Rag’s or The Machine’s lists at the same time, one may well be applying a double standard. Those errors have been serious and numerous. My commenters and I have responded to one such list on my blog.

I would not criticize you or anyone else for putting out an intellectually honest list of Mr. Moore’s errors, subject to the condition above. However, if you or your supporters attempted to harass Mr. or Mrs. Moore, that would be a different matter. IIRC, you have previously expressed a desired to take down Mr. Moore. If that means that you contacted his employers in an attempt to get him removed from his job, then I make the strongest possible objection to this action. Mr. Moore’s position on this case is unrelated to his abilities to perform his work, and his employment is none of your business. However, you appear to be taking a different position in these last few days. Fine.

My reaction to any misstatement is much as RoseMontague’s reaction; Mr. Moore’s articles and interviews are a wake-up call for people whose default position is that Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito are probably guilty because criminal justice systems seldom make mistakes. I think that someone who is unfamiliar with the case should read his articles and think carefully about them. Then he or she should go on and study the case further and make up his or her own mind.

 

[TomCH]

YES!

Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellman has also apparently agreed to the requestioning of a tramp who put Knox and Sollecito at the scene of the crime, but referred to buses in his evidence which would not necessarily have been running on the Bank Holiday that Miss Kercher was killed.


YOU'RE BACK ON THE STAND CURATOLO YOU PERJURING SWINE!

hope you enjoy jail!

Ummm, NO!

 

[Dan O.]

The Third Man: You raise an interesting question. The Lone Wolf theory proposes that Rudy was already in the cottage when Meredith returned home at around 21:00. One supposition is that Rudy was on the toilet when Meredith entered. The attacked then began within minutes (Meredith goes to her bedroom; maybe Rudy tries to leave by the door but it is locked; he confronts Meredith in her bedroom; murders her). He then spends some time (10-15 minutes?) cleaning himself up, picks up Meredith's keys and phones and departs. That would be about 21:30. So why would Rudy still have the phones in his possession at 22:00?

Meredith passes through the car park at 21:05 on the way home. Does she stop to check on the cat downstairs or is her being tired more important than dealing with an injured animal? In Rudy's diary, he notes a confrontation that began in the hall and moved back to the kitchen/living room in which he was knocked to the floor by a weaker opponent. The attack then moves into the bedroom where rudy with his pants properly buckled now gains the upper hand. Given the blood on the inner handle, the door had been closed probably to deter Meredith's escape and to deaden any screams for help. (I missed that when we were discussing Nara)

The burglary turned assault now turns into attempted rape. How long does it take to remove the pants of a struggling victim with one hand? This is Rudy showing his dominance where he digitally penetrates his captive. Rudy is now in full control.

I believe the knife came out only when Rudy tried and failed to pull the bra strap apart. The realization that a deadly weapon was in play after being violated would make Meredith desperately fight for her life. Rudy's attempt to control Meredith at this point may have inadvertently inflicted the first knife wound.

After Meredith is fatally injured, Rudy turns her on her back, finishes removing the pants, underwear and bra and places a pillow under her pelvis. Is this for her comfort or his! After stabbing her three times in the neck, is he still preparing to rape her? I'll give Rudy the benefit of doubt and presume that the DNA result came from his finger before Meredith was stabbed and not his penis while she was gasping her last breath. The results of the DNA testing on that stain found on the pillow between her legs may cause me to reevaluate this position.

Add in a couple of trips to the bathroom to fetch towels to stem the flood of blood. Rudy sits with dying Meredith to hear her last words (or what would have been her last words if he hadn't thrust that knife into her larynx and cause her blood to flow into her lungs asphyxiating her). Eventually Rudy realizes that Meredith's condition is serious. That he covers her head with the duvet is an indication that he believes she is already dead.

Rudy cleans up in the bathroom. He probably first washed his hands in the sink then rinsing the blood off his pants in the shower. None of this takes much time but the minutes add up.

Rudy returns to Meredith's room and sits on the bed while he searched through her purse. If he is just looking for the keys, why doesn't he just dump the contents on the bed and grab them? He places the receipt for a concert on top of the duvet giving back to Meredith one of the last joys in her life.

How long does Rudy sit on Meredith's bed going through her life in the contents of her purse and pounding the wall with his fist after realizing what he had done? How long does he sit there trying to decide what to do next?

What Rudy does next is take the cash, credit cards, cell phones and keys and heads home locking behind him the mess he has created in Meredith's room.

Rudy says he went home by going through town through the basketball court. But Rudy would know this path would have a high probability of encountering someone that would recognize him. I believe he is making this claim to distance himself from where the phones were found. Rudy would have taken a path outside the city walls and through the park.

How long does Rudy spend alone in the dark in the park outside the city wall contemplating his pathetic existence and reliving the nightmare of the last hour? Rudy comes to convince himself that Meredith was still alive when he left her. Is he also thinking that if he calls her friends and hangs up they will start to worry about her and might save her? That probably is a detail that only Rudy can fill in.


There are sufficient events, some with open time frames, to easily account for the time between Meredith arriving home at 21:05 and the phones being activated at 21:58/22:00.

 

[christianahannah]

SomeAlibi,

I have time only for an incomplete reply right now, but I might be able to write something longer later. I will take as a given that Mr. Moore has made erroneous statements. I believe that Mr. Moore said something along the lines of the interrogation stopping just short of waterboarding. That distinction is important; waterboarding is at the far end of touchless coercion, but I believe that there is a continuum of coercive techniques. I think we can all agree that Ms. Knox was at least cuffed; maybe not a beating, but not acceptable, either. Mr. Moore claimed that Ms. Knox was interrogated for eight hours at IIP. That is a little longer than I believe to be the case (6:45-7:45 hours). The argument about the number of hours or exactly how coercive the interrogation techniques were misses the more central point, that the interrogation was not designed to get at the truth, nor did it.
l

My explanation is that Mr. Moore was initially unused to speaking on TV and made some misstatements due to nerves (and possibly also due to being less familiar with this case at first). An easy way to falsify this hypothesis would be to see whether the number of errors he has made has stayed the same over time or gone down over time. If one wants to acknowledge his errors, fine. If one does not acknowledge errors in Harry Rag’s or The Machine’s lists at the same time, one may well be applying a double standard. Those errors have been serious and numerous. My commenters and I have responded to one such list on my blog.

I would not criticize you or anyone else for putting out an intellectually honest list of Mr. Moore’s errors, subject to the condition above. However, if you or your supporters attempted to harass Mr. or Mrs. Moore, that would be a different matter. IIRC, you have previously expressed a desired to take down Mr. Moore. If that means that you contacted his employers in an attempt to get him removed from his job, then I make the strongest possible objection to this action. Mr. Moore’s position on this case is unrelated to his abilities to perform his work, and his employment is none of your business. However, you appear to be taking a different position in these last few days. Fine.

My reaction to any misstatement is much as RoseMontague’s reaction; Mr. Moore’s articles and interviews are a wake-up call for people whose default position is that Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito are probably guilty because criminal justice systems seldom make mistakes. I think that someone who is unfamiliar with the case should read his articles and think carefully about them. Then he or she should go on and study the case further and make up his or her own mind.

Chris nice words and this is a very reasonable request you make. There have been errors on both sides, however, no one should be harassed because of the side they take. This holds especially true for those personally involved with the main people on either side.

 

[TomCH]

Meredith passes through the car park at 21:05 on the way home. Does she stop to check on the cat downstairs or is her being tired more important than dealing with an injured animal? In Rudy's diary, he notes a confrontation that began in the hall and moved back to the kitchen/living room in which he was knocked to the floor by a weaker opponent. The attack then moves into the bedroom where rudy with his pants properly buckled now gains the upper hand. Given the blood on the inner handle, the door had been closed probably to deter Meredith's escape and to deaden any screams for help. (I missed that when we were discussing Nara)

The burglary turned assault now turns into attempted rape. How long does it take to remove the pants of a struggling victim with one hand? This is Rudy showing his dominance where he digitally penetrates his captive. Rudy is now in full control.

I believe the knife came out only when Rudy tried and failed to pull the bra strap apart. The realization that a deadly weapon was in play after being violated would make Meredith desperately fight for her life. Rudy's attempt to control Meredith at this point may have inadvertently inflicted the first knife wound.

After Meredith is fatally injured, Rudy turns her on her back, finishes removing the pants, underwear and bra and places a pillow under her pelvis. Is this for her comfort or his! After stabbing her three times in the neck he is still preparing to rape her. I'll give Rudy the benefit of doubt and presume that the DNA result came from his finger before Meredith was stabbed and not his penis while she was gasping her last breath. The results of the DNA testing on that stain found on the pillow between her legs may cause me to reevaluate this position.

Add in a couple of trips to the bathroom to fetch towels to stem the flood of blood. Rudy sits with dying Meredith to hear her last words (or what would have been her last words if he hadn't thrust that knife into her larynx and cause her blood to flow into her lungs asphyxiating her). Eventually Rudy realizes that Meredith's condition is serious. That he covers her head with the duvet is an indication that he believes she is already dead.

Rudy cleans up in the bathroom. He probably first washed his hands in the sink then rinsing the blood off his pants. None of this takes much time but the minutes add up.

Rudy returns to Meredith's room and sits on the bed while he searched through her purse. If he is just looking for the keys, why doesn't he just dump the contents on the bed and grab them? He places the receipt for a concert on top of the duvet giving back to Meredith one of the last joys in her life.

How long does Rudy sit on Meredith's bed going through her life in the contents of her purse and pounding the wall with his fist after realizing what he had done? How long does he sit there trying to decide what to do next?

What Rudy does next is take the cash, credit cards, cell phones and keys and heads home locking behind him the mess he has created in Meredith's room.

Rudy says he went home by going through town through the basketball court. But Rudy would know this path would have a high probability of encountering someone that would recognize him. I believe he is making this claim to distance himself from where the phones were found. Rudy would have taken a path outside the city walls and through the park.

How long does Rudy spend alone in the dark in the park outside the city wall contemplating his pathetic existence and reliving the nightmare of the last hour? Rudy comes to convince himself the Meredith was still alive when he left her. Is he also thinking that if he calls her friends and hangs up they will start to worry about her and might save her? That probably is a detail that only Rudy can fill in.


There are sufficient events, some with open time frames, to easily account for the time between Meredith arriving home at 21:05 and the phones being activated at 21:58/22:00.

Dude, Rudy was on the toilet when it all went down!

This is all conjecture on your part!

 

[Chris_Halkides]

when it all went down

Dude, Rudy was on the toilet when it all went down!

This is all conjecture on your part!

TomCH,

Your position is that Rudi is innocent of the murder? If so, would you care to elaborate on your reasons? Thank you.

 

[SomeAlibi]

Chris nice words and this is a very reasonable request you make. There have been errors on both sides, however, no one should be harassed because of the side they take. This holds especially true for those personally involved with the main people on either side.

So, just to be entirely clear, no-one I know contacted Steve Moore's employers to have him removed from his job. I was somewhat startled you even thought that was the case. I repeat, we've kept personal information off the internet about Edda and Chris that would be very harmful to them. Since we'll never meet up for a chat in the pub, I can't tell you what it is, but I think you'll find that the "guilters" are very considerate people other than in respect of Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy who are people convicted of an sexually aggravated murder. They don't get much credit.

 

[Chris C]

mary

i am a mental health proffessional, in forensics. i also have worked with the homeless. I find the above statement really quite ridiculous and an insult to the millions of homeless throughout the world. shame on you!

lxxx

How was rudy paying for is apartment?

 

[christianahannah]

So, just to be entirely clear, no-one I know contacted Steve Moore's employers to have him removed from his job. I was somewhat startled you even thought that was the case. I repeat, we've kept personal information off the internet about Edda and Chris that would be very harmful to them. Since we'll never meet up for a chat in the pub, I can't tell you what it is, but I think you'll find that the "guilters" are very considerate people other than in respect of Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy who are people convicted of an sexually aggravated murder. They don't get much credit.

I'm not sure you meant this for me. Chris perhaps? I don't know what anyone has done with regards to any one individual. My comment was more general and wasn't in reference to anyone's workplace.

At times I think there is too much hate given towards those involved in this case and I have felt parents, friends and family,, on both sides have been unfairly portrayed and targeted just because they speak up for the one they love.

 

[platonov]

'not designed to get at the truth'

SomeAlibi,

I have time only for an incomplete reply right now, but I might be able to write something longer later. I will take as a given that Mr. Moore has made erroneous statements. I believe that Mr. Moore said something along the lines of the interrogation stopping just short of waterboarding. That distinction is important; waterboarding is at the far end of touchless coercion, but I believe that there is a continuum of coercive techniques. I think we can all agree that Ms. Knox was at least cuffed; maybe not a beating, but not acceptable, either. Mr. Moore claimed that Ms. Knox was interrogated for eight hours at IIP. That is a little longer than I believe to be the case (6:45-7:45 hours). The argument about the number of hours or exactly how coercive the interrogation techniques were misses the more central point, that the interrogation was not designed to get at the truth, nor did it.

<snip>

Wow halides1.

'touchless coercion' You have advanced some weak and mendacious arguments on this thread but this has to be a new departure. Its certainly a bizarre argument to make given the concern shown previously for murder suspects who weren't given 'tea & cakes' in a timely fashion etc.

Was 'waterboarding' as its now known a 'touchless coercion' in your opinion when used to torture prisoners by the Japanese, Germans, Khmer Rouge etc etc (the list is long - we will omit some of the more 'civilized' practitioners).
Indeed I have a question regarding the touchless part - do the recipients willingly submit to this torture or is there a form of restraint applied.That surely counts as touching - No ?

Or does this new definition arise from its recent 'legal' use by US forces. You hardly 'invented'* the term just to try and dignify the FOA lies spread by the likes of Moore or did you ?
*Touchless torture rings a bell but 'touchless coercion'

Would it be classed as torture if applied to AK or any American abroad for that matter.This concern for civil liberties etc is a more complex and nuanced position than I was led to believe.

I dont believe arguments such as these are designed to get at the truth !
Are there any lies that cant be justified if they serve the greater good i.e AK's cause.

 

[Chris C]

Great news!



Wonderful!
Is this the turning point - like the battle of Midway in WWII?

After all the torpedo bombers had been shot down and the second wave had also missed, the third wave of dive bombers hit and sunk four of the Jap carriers. It was the decisive turning point in the war as the Japanese never experienced major victory again.

I personally wouldn't call midway in WWII a turning point. The turning point in the Pacific theatre was when they bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7 1941.

 

[RWVBWL]

Obviously, I am not talking about the tens of millions of people around the world who live in dire poverty in third world countries, and have absolutely no resources available to them.

I wonder if there is anyone in Perugia other than Curatolo who has been sleeping on a bench for ten years. I wonder if anyone in Perugia has ever tried to work with Curatolo to find him permanent lodging, and he declined or was unable to do what was required to obtain it or keep it.

We've already done this discussion, SomeAlibi, back in May. There is plenty of documentation supporting the claim that the chronically homeless tend to suffer from mental health issues or cognitive disabilities.

It's not necessarily an insult or a criticism to call someone mentally ill or cognitively disabled, you know. Most of the objections to Curatolo's testimony have consisted of pointing out that his story of that particular night in not credible, and that he may be a serial or professional witness.

Hi Mary H!
What I really, really wonder about Antonio Curatolo is how come he did not approach the police the next day to tell them of what he saw the night before?
He could have easily scored some "brownie points" with the men+women of law!

Especially seeing how a few years earlier he had also been a witness, -(a "Super Witness"?) in another murder trial!

Gosh, most neighborhoods have a few homeless bums living there, you know, the ones who sleep on benches or in bushes and rummage thru garbage cans for food and/or treasure!
I see them all the time in Venice Beach and Santa Monica, California too.

Does Mr. Curatolo fit that bill? I wonder...
BUT not as much as I wonder why a brilliant, park-bench-sleeping, garbage-can-rumaging kinda guy who saw something strange the night that a young woman was murdered
DID NOT even tell the cops that he saw a white guy+girl hangin' around at 9:27pm that cold night when the murder investigation started the next day!

NOR did he tell them about "the scream" that surely must have reverberated thru the neighborhood on a cold, clear/cloudy(?) night!

Now that, IMHO, is very strange...
RWVBWL

PS-Before some of you homeless advocates start cryin' that I, RWVBWL, am talkin' crap about Mr. Curatolo,
read here what a Perugian local says about Antonio Curatolo:

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/04/toto-witness.html

Too funny!
RW

 

[LondonJohn]

So, just to be entirely clear, no-one I know contacted Steve Moore's employers to have him removed from his job. I was somewhat startled you even thought that was the case. I repeat, we've kept personal information off the internet about Edda and Chris that would be very harmful to them. Since we'll never meet up for a chat in the pub, I can't tell you what it is, but I think you'll find that the "guilters" are very considerate people other than in respect of Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy who are people convicted of an sexually aggravated murder. They don't get much credit.

So, just to be entirely clear, did "anyone you know" contact Steve Moore's former employers in an attempt to adversely influence his upcoming civil claim for unfair dismissal? Just to be entirely clear, you understand.....

PS: I would have thought that professional defence attorneys would realise that writing a letter to a convicted felon which is entirely concerned with that felon's crimes - and which additionally implores said felon to give evidence against two other people(!) - would be extraordinarily unlikely to make its way through the prison postal system. I'd really have thought that a professional defence attorney would know that - wouldn't you?

 

[RWVBWL]

Great news!
Wonderful!
Is this the turning point - like the battle of Midway in WWII?

After all the torpedo bombers had been shot down and the second wave had also missed, the third wave of dive bombers hit and sunk four of the Jap carriers. It was the decisive turning point in the war as the Japanese never experienced major victory again.

Hi Justinian2,
After getting caught up with my reading, I AM STOKED!
Today is just full of great news for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito!

Peace,
RWVBWL

PS-Speaking of a different turning point, you mentioned the Battle of Midway,
I have been a huge Pacific Theater war buff for almost 40 years. And Midway was the turning point!

Check this out: I found this out just last year in '09.
Dick Best, who led that squadron of Dauntless dive bombers from the U.S.S. Enterprise that hit and sank the Akagi, Kaga and finally the Hiryu,
-(3 of the 6 Japanese carriers that had sneakily attacked Pearl Harbor)
actually worked for many, many years right down the street from my old surfshop in "DogTown" at The Rand Corporation in security.
I wish I had known that, for I would luved to shake his hand, and tell him job well done!

As I would luv to do today with the lawyers for Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox.
The job isn't finished, BUT it appears that today was a major turning point!

Right on!
RW

 

[LondonJohn]

Well, who suggested DRIVING to Strasbourg and Paris?! Nightmare journeys - especially this evening..... but at least I got additional time to see the Christmas market in Strasbourg and to blow lots of money in Fauchon and Hediard

So........... the big decision today, eh? Looks to me like Knox and Sollecito got the most important things that they asked for. I still can't begin to understand the rationale about not testing the pillowcase stain though: if it's Selenzi's semen or not semen at all, we move on; if it's Guede's then it destroys his whole story and helps Knox/Sollecito; if it's an as-yet unknown person, it throws the hole case into confusion; if it's Sollecito's then he's almost certainly guilty, and by extension so is Knox. What's there to lose by testing it?

On ToD, I wonder if the appeal court believes that it already has enough expert witness testimony? After all, none of the witnesses put the ToD at any longer than 4 hours after Meredith ate her last meal, and the autopsy pathologist himself put it at 2-3 hours. Therefore none of the experts for either side implicitly put the ToD later than 10.30pm. Anyway, we'll see. But the knife and bra clasp will certainly be...interesting....when reviewed. I suspect that Stefanoni's rather unique method of "LCN-style" analysis will come in for special scrutiny.........

And it will also be interesting to see Curatolo and Quintavalle (and maybe also Capezzali) come under new scrutiny. Some interesting months ahead.

By the way, has SA apologised yet in any way, shape or form to Michelle Moore, or is he still clinging to his misguided, disingenuous and erroneous belief in his previous triumphant announcements that she was a liar? Or is he still also implicitly calling Bruce Fisher a liar for explaining what actually happened?

 

[LondonJohn]

..

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

TA DA! This is just my amateur translation so take it for what it's worth. It was done with a translation software, me (very basic Italian) and a dictionary that only a crane can get down off the shelf! It is the article posted by Christianahannah.

http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/mez-...elesi-a-nuove-perizie-su-coltello-e-gancetto/

It reopens the process for Amanda Knox and Raffaele. THE COURT OF APPEAL IN PERUGIA has ordered the reopening of the hearing admitting the possibility for the two accused of bringing new expertise on the knife and on the brassiere. The Court also has reserved the right to decide whether to allow or not the testimonies of Aviello and Alessi outcome of the investigations genetic already carried out. Accepted instead are the three witnesses that disprove the version of vagrant Antonio Curatolo.

The Court also has indicated that the college will have to conduct the new findings. Knox and Sollecito have obtained the victory that had asked to demonstrate their innocence with new evidence. The experts – explained the Court – should examine the traces of DNA found on evidence and give the genetic code. If this is not possible the experts are to assess the examinations already on record. The experts appointed by the Court are Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti at the University La Sapienza of Rome. The knife, confiscated from Sollecito’s house, revealed the DNA of Kercher and Knox. The genetic code of Sollecito, mixed with that of the victim was also isolated on the brassiere. This hearing was postponed to 15 January 2011. The two defendants, after the reading of the disposition, burst into tears of joy.

Suspension of the terms of custody: The process in court of appeal to Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox, which have been sentenced respectively to 25 and 26 years in prison for the crime against English student Meredith Kercher, was taken up this morning. As requested by the Attorney General Giancarlo Costagliola, the Judges of the Court CRIMINAL APPEAL OF THE CRIMINAL Tribunal of Perugia, authorized the deposit of the judgments of the first and second instance concerning Rudy Guede and also the disposition with which the appeal has recently confirmed his sentence to 16 years.
The judges had also accepted the request of the PG Costagliola that provides for the suspension of the period of the measure of custody in prison between the judgment of first instance and the reasons for the process of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. In other words, with this decision the custody in prison for the former sweethearts from June to September will expire. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are seated in the chamber next to their defenders. The judges were closed in the Council room at 15.

The PG: Yes the testimony of Aviello and Alessi: The Attorney General Giancarlo Costagliola in its intervention had said that did not prevent the testimony of Mario Alessi (The Mason Sicilian convicted of the murder of little Tommaso Onofri who claims to have collected in prison a testimony of Guede in which the Ivoriano said that the murders would not have been Amanda and Raffaele but another man) and Luciano Aviello, the racketeer that maintains that the murderer was his brother: a testimony that in fact exonerates the three accused. According to PG Giancarlo Costagliola and the PM Manuela Comodi that is an alternating story and there is no need to renew any expert testimony. The lawyers Luca Maori and Giulia Bongiorno say to ask his testimony, in addition to that of other prisoners of the same prison that would confirm the same version.

The case of Luciano Aviello: The testimony of Luciano Aviello instead, has been requested by the defence of Amanda Knox. Aviello, currently INVESTIGATED BY PUBLIC PROSECUTOR Perugia for slander, has supported, even with letters sent to the Court of First Instance that the killer of Meredith was his brother. Aviello has also claimed to know the location of the real weapon of the crime, which he himself would gather, and the house keys of Meredith, which were never found. For both, if the court were to admit the testimonies, the prosecutor (?) shall reserve a Proof after having known the content. The PG has also expressed opposition to the request of the defence of Raffaele Sollecito to hear some people who actually can disprove a witness of the process of first instance. Antonio Curatolo, a vagrant that is in the area of the house of the crime, said that he saw Amanda and Raffaele the evening of the crime, placing the fact that evening temporally because there were the shuttle buses to the disco.

The PG: No to new expert reports: No instead came from Costagliola to a request of admission of new expertise. In particular, the defenses had asked new expertise on knife, alleged weapon of the crime, time and the mode of death of Meredith. For these analyses a second investigation would not need the opinion of a new consultant that could add nothing to what is already known. Furthermore, for a second consultant, the elements already in existence for these subjects are overflowing. The defence of Sollecito had also asked for a new expert opinion on the bra of Meredith where the DNA of the Pugliese student was isolated. Per the defence, the DNA was there due to contamination. PM Manuela Comodi has argued that that it could not have been contaminated because it had always been in the room of the offense. Where if the DNA of Meredith could have contaminated something, it may have happened the same with Sollecito who never entered the Room of Meredith. The prosecution has also expressed a negative opinion for the expert opinion on the computer of Raffaele Sollecito and for that of the simulation of theft in the villa of the offense.

 

[SomeAlibi]

So, just to be entirely clear, did "anyone you know" contact Steve Moore's former employers in an attempt to adversely influence his upcoming civil claim for unfair dismissal? Just to be entirely clear, you understand.....

PS: I would have thought that professional defence attorneys would realise that writing a letter to a convicted felon which is entirely concerned with that felon's crimes - and which additionally implores said felon to give evidence against two other people(!) - would be extraordinarily unlikely to make its way through the prison postal system. I'd really have thought that a professional defence attorney would know that - wouldn't you?

I contacted Pepperdine to provide them all of the online content of Steve Moore's interviews etc to save them time. Since Steve stands by them, I believe you couldn't object to that. I also pointed out the factual errors in them. After that I've left it. Pepperdine's lawyers are in house and they are rather bright. They're going to do Steve for breach of contract, not for anything to do with this case.

Your letter-writing comment is of course baseless. We don't have these sort of strictures in our system on the basis of the content of what I wrote. You could substantiate your claim. Please desist with the rolleyes emoticon crap if you want to engage in debate.

 

[LondonJohn]

I contacted Pepperdine to provide them all of the online content of Steve Moore's interviews etc to save them time. Since Steve stands by them, I believe you couldn't object to that. I also pointed out the factual errors in them. After that I've left it. Pepperdine's lawyers are in house and they are rather bright. They're going to do Steve for breach of contract, not for anything to do with this case.

Your letter-writing comment is of course baseless. We don't have these sort of strictures in our system on the basis of the content of what I wrote. You could substantiate your claim. Please desist with the rolleyes emoticon crap if you want to engage in debate.

Ow - had a bad day, have you? If it's any consolation, I've driven for nine hours today, so it's time for a bath and bed.

And, by the way, since most of what you've written on this board over the past few days (now that I've caught up) seems to consist of patrician and patronising heavy-handedness (usually along the lines of "Oh come on now..." or "I've shown beyond all doubt that...."(!) or "you have to go there to understand...."), coupled with your unpleasant and wholly incorrect personal attack on Michelle Moore (and stubborn refusal to recognise your error), I don't really have a strong motivation to engage in debate with you in any case. Have a lovely evening!

Oh, I almost forgot: I wonder how your explanation of the somewhat anodyne and non-partisan (according to you) nature of your communication with Pepperdine University squares with your explicitly-stated goal of "bringing down" Steve Moore? No need to answer, of course!

 

[RWVBWL]

YES!

Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellman has also apparently agreed to the requestioning of a tramp who put Knox and Sollecito at the scene of the crime, but referred to buses in his evidence which would not necessarily have been running on the Bank Holiday that Miss Kercher was killed.

YOU'RE BACK ON THE STAND CURATOLO YOU PERJURING SWINE!

hope you enjoy jail!

Ummm, NO!

Hi TomCH,
I like to read and learn.
If you do too, please read what a local resident of Perugia said about a "Super Witness" in the sensational murder case we discuss here on JREF:

By the way, about the facts, what Antonio Curatolo told me is that that night he didn't see anyone at the basketball court.But what counts is what he told the police and to the police he said to have seen Amanda and Raffaele out of the cottage.
After all he's an expert witness. Already in 2001 he testified against a a Tunisian (who allegely killed his girl by the swimming pool) and he got him condemned.

Link here:
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/04/toto-witness.html

I'm keeping an open mind still TomCH,
so I ask, why do you think that Mr. Curatolo would lie to either Mr. Sfarzo or the police?
Or why do you think that Mr. Curatolo didn't approach the police as the murder investigation started and and tell them,
"Hey officers, can you tell the director of Corriere dell'Umbria that I saw a strange sight last night.
It was kind of cold night last night, I oughta know, sleeping on the bench and I saw this white guy and a white girl hangin' out from 9:27pm until almost midnight. You might wanna check it out."

Heck, maybe the same detective, whose name I forget, could have shown Mr. Curatolo that same photograph of Raffaele Sollecito that he showed the store owner.

Questions, questions, questions. It seems like we might have some of them finally answered...
Have a great rest of your day, I know that I will now!
RWVBWL