• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just to clarify things. My original post attempted to get some idea as to whether the "14 hour waterboarding" statement has any basis on fact.

I deliberately did not try to influence the outcome by posting my own timescale.

I pointed out that at some time around midnight Knox was reported to have been doing cartwheels. I thought that this would put down some kind of marker.

Since then I have read numerous replies that deliberately missed the point. These posters have prefered to talk about witchcraft, cartwheeling, yoga and the like.

My attempts at trying to get some sense out of them have resulted in me receiving warnings from the moderator about not keeping to the point and not answering the question.

It is only when I have put down my own understanding of the timescale that suddenly these posters seem to have known about the timing of commencement of questioning all along.

I thank them for pointing out that 12.00 was too late. Do we now add a half hour or an hour to the 1 hour 45 minutes?

I also find it interesting that so many poster appear to have disowned Mr. Moore. Especially as he appears to be wheeled out to support any unchallenged claims made by the Knox family.

Inn answer to Halides question "Do you claim that Steve Moore maintains it was waterboarding and that it was for fourteen hours? If so, could you cite something?"

I would merely point to the numerous statements that have been made by many journalists over the past year.
 
Mary_H said:
Do you really want to go there, SomeAlibi? I challenge you to ask a legitimate mental health professional what their opinion is of someone who sleeps on a park bench, year round, for a decade.
Click to expand...

Homeless people are automatically mentally incompetent?
 
Withnail1969 said:
Curatolo is a well-known Perugia nutter. My source is Frank from Perugia Shock.
Click to expand...


It is unclear to me why the opinion of an Internet blogger is helpful on this point.

What evidence did the Knox/Sollecito defense team offer during the trial to impeach Curatolo's testimony on the basis of mental impairment? How was this evidence countered?

It is not necessary to insinuate mental health issues to cast doubt upon a witness's testimony. To do so without foundation and no motive beyond a character slur is a true ad hominem fallacy. Homelessness may be the result of mental health issues, but that is not the same thing as claiming that those same issues are a priori evidence of an inability to testify honestly and accurately.
 
Withnail1969 said:
Of course not, but Antonio Curatolo does. He needs help, which he simply isn't getting in Perugia. The Peruginas are seemingly quite happy to let the poor old duffer rot on his bench without doing anything to help him.
Click to expand...

Are you getting on the next flight to Italy to go help him?
 
RoseMontague said:
It probably depends on the make/model of the phone and I believe that is stated in one of the various reports. I don't remember it being discussed if you want to see if you can track it down and try to find a corresponding users guide on the web. If not, I will try to find it tomorrow as I will be heading out shortly for a good portion of the day. If we have covered this perhaps someone can remind me and direct me to that discussion.
Click to expand...

Meredith's phone was a Sony Ericsson model K700i according to the motivations. Image of phone and user guide linked below:

http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/support/phones/detailed/userguide/k700i?lc=en&cc=us
 
Last edited:
SomeAlibi said:
You think homeless people are homeless by choice? That the tens of millions of homeless people around the world all have mental health problems?

Your insult against the homeless is absolutely breathtaking. Try going and working for a homeless persons charity for a couple of days and educating yourself. What a terrible statement to make.
Click to expand...


Obviously, I am not talking about the tens of millions of people around the world who live in dire poverty in third world countries, and have absolutely no resources available to them.

I wonder if there is anyone in Perugia other than Curatolo who has been sleeping on a bench for ten years. I wonder if anyone in Perugia has ever tried to work with Curatolo to find him permanent lodging, and he declined or was unable to do what was required to obtain it or keep it.

We've already done this discussion, SomeAlibi, back in May. There is plenty of documentation supporting the claim that the chronically homeless tend to suffer from mental health issues or cognitive disabilities.

It's not necessarily an insult or a criticism to call someone mentally ill or cognitively disabled, you know. Most of the objections to Curatolo's testimony have consisted of pointing out that his story of that particular night in not credible, and that he may be a serial or professional witness.
 
Mary_H said:
Do you really want to go there, SomeAlibi? I challenge you to ask a legitimate mental health professional what their opinion is of someone who sleeps on a park bench, year round, for a decade.
Click to expand...


mary

i am a mental health proffessional, in forensics. i also have worked with the homeless. I find the above statement really quite ridiculous and an insult to the millions of homeless throughout the world. shame on you!

lxxx
 
s_pepys said:
mary

i am a mental health proffessional, in forensics. i also have worked with the homeless. I find the above statement really quite ridiculous and an insult to the millions of homeless throughout the world. shame on you!

lxxx
Click to expand...


Ten years homeless in an industrialized nation with social supports, s? These researchers disagree with you:

"...most studies indicate a considerable burden of cognitive dysfunction among homeless people. Such dysfunction might be expected to impact upon their ability to reintegrate into society, thereby undermining policies of inclusiveness. In clinical practice, assessment of homeless adults should include their cognitive state."

http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/97/8/375

"Homeless people are significantly more likely to have an intellectual disability than the general population."

http://jid.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/12/4/325.pdf

"Cognitive impairments can increase significantly a person’s level of risk for becoming or remaining homeless."

http://intraspec.ca/JPP2007_28_375-3...ker&Howard.pdf
 
Mary_H said:
Ten years homeless in an industrialized nation with social supports, s? These researchers disagree with you:

"...most studies indicate a considerable burden of cognitive dysfunction among homeless people. Such dysfunction might be expected to impact upon their ability to reintegrate into society, thereby undermining policies of inclusiveness. In clinical practice, assessment of homeless adults should include their cognitive state."

http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/97/8/375

"Homeless people are significantly more likely to have an intellectual disability than the general population."

http://jid.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/12/4/325.pdf

"Cognitive impairments can increase significantly a person’s level of risk for becoming or remaining homeless."

http://intraspec.ca/JPP2007_28_375-3...ker&Howard.pdf
Click to expand...



totally different argument altogether im afraid. Its that kind of generalised assumption that hinders people who are trying to put there lives back together. whether it be prison, homeless, whatever. factors that lead to homelessness are varied and complicated as are mental health issues. blanket statements about mr curatolos mental health based on nothing more than being long term homeless are unscientific, unhelpful and insulting.

lxxx
 
Mary_H said:
Do you really want to go there, SomeAlibi? I challenge you to ask a legitimate mental health professional what their opinion is of someone who sleeps on a park bench, year round, for a decade.
Click to expand...


I challenge you to ask a legitimate mental health professional if any testimony from such a person must be presumed to be false simply on the basis of that evidence alone. While you're at it, ask them if they would be willing to say so in a court of law while testifying under oath in their professional capacity.
 
s_pepys said:
totally different argument altogether im afraid. Its that kind of generalised assumption that hinders people who are trying to put there lives back together. whether it be prison, homeless, whatever. factors that lead to homelessness are varied and complicated as are mental health issues. blanket statements about mr curatolos mental health based on nothing more than being long term homeless are unscientific, unhelpful and insulting.

lxxx
Click to expand...


Like SomeAlibi, you assume that because I call Curatolo mentally ill or cognitively disabled I am insulting him. It seems to me you are attaching more shame to his condition than I am.
 
Mary_H said:
Obviously, I am not talking about the tens of millions of people around the world who live in dire poverty in third world countries, and have absolutely no resources available to them.

I wonder if there is anyone in Perugia other than Curatolo who has been sleeping on a bench for ten years. I wonder if anyone in Perugia has ever tried to work with Curatolo to find him permanent lodging, and he declined or was unable to do what was required to obtain it or keep it.

We've already done this discussion, SomeAlibi, back in May. There is plenty of documentation supporting the claim that the chronically homeless tend to suffer from mental health issues or cognitive disabilities.

It's not necessarily an insult or a criticism to call someone mentally ill or cognitively disabled, you know. Most of the objections to Curatolo's testimony have consisted of pointing out that his story of that particular night in not credible, and that he may be a serial or professional witness.
Click to expand...

It is selective indignation. No problem with considering a party ticket as meaning Amanda is anti-social. Which would be a stronger indicator?
 
Withnail1969 said:
Meredith's phone may have had a voicemail button. Given that that call was accompanied by other completely pointless calls and that Meredith did not phone her sick mother that night, i think it was the murderer.
Click to expand...


I don't remember there being a "voice mail" button. But when I looked into this earlier I found that one of the numbers could be dialed by a long press on the number "1" and the other could be a speed dial requiring only the pressing of 1 or 2 number keys and the send.

If the "Voice Dial" feature was active, these numbers could have been called without pressing any buttons. It would be disconcerting to a thief and murder that had just stollen his victims phones to have the phones start making calls on their own. Thie third time when the phone ring a with the incomming MMS he would be convinced that the phones were possessed and ditch them immediately.
 
quadraginta said:
I challenge you to ask a legitimate mental health professional if any testimony from such a person must be presumed to be false simply on the basis of that evidence alone. While you're at it, ask them if they would be willing to say so in a court of law while testifying under oath in their professional capacity.
Click to expand...


That wasn't my argument. Fulcanelli asked someone for evidence that Curatolo is mentally ill. I provided some. As I stated to SomeAlibi, Curatolo's testimony is false for other reasons.
 
Withnail1969 said:
Yes!

Now we just need to get these idiot witnesses on the stand again.
Click to expand...

One of the most important decisions in the case, IMO.

The judge is supposed to have said something like he wanted to "put the value of the forensic evidence beyond reasonable doubt", or WTTE (sorry to be vague, going from news reports!). Presumably that indicates he doesn't think it's beyond reasonable doubt at the moment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom