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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Simmins said:
Thanks.

I found this article http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1904571,00.html

DNA evidence aside, because she lived in the house, according to the article she placed herself at the scene. BUT that was after a 14 hour intense interrogation with no lawyer present AND the way the question of her being there was presented as a "what if" this is according to a an article in The Guardian UK website. I just searched google for "evidence against amanda knox".



That is something that should be known because some cannabis traces would not change a persons character like that but according to what i read in the Guardian article "the prosecution claimed it was hey suggested that the trio had killed Kercher because she refused to join them in a drug-fuelled orgy." They took blood what were the results? If it was some cannabis "drug-fuelled" is kind of weak. BUT its a terrible thing that happened to Meredith so i dont want to go overboard in defending anyone here.
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Raffaele had tried cocaine when he was younger and this was admitted. There was no evidence that they were on any drugs other than pot and no evidence of any other drug use other than pot on Amanda's part. This is just unsupported speculation just as a 14 hour (continuous) interrogation of Amanda is unsupported by the facts.
 
Simmins said:
That is something that should be known because some cannabis traces would not change a persons character like that but according to what i read in the Guardian article "the prosecution claimed it was hey suggested that the trio had killed Kercher because she refused to join them in a drug-fuelled orgy." They took blood what were the results? If it was some cannabis "drug-fuelled" is kind of weak. BUT its a terrible thing that happened to Meredith so i dont want to go overboard in defending anyone here.
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Cannabis and alcohol were blamed for the killing. The trouble is that Amanda definitely wasn't drunk or on drugs when she encountered the witness Popovic at 8:40 pm - she is reported to have been acting completely normally. After that, Amanda and Raff are supposed to have been standing around at the basketball court from 9:27 pm until after the disco buses departed taking the young people to the out of town discos. (Normally around 11:30)

2 problems there:

1) They are not reported to have been drinking, taking drugs or behaving oddly at the basketball court

2) The disco buses were not running that night.


The time of death was (wrongly) estimated to be about 11:30 pm, so Amanda and Raffaele would have needed to run into the cottage just after 11:30, high-five Rudy on the way in, and immediately kill Meredith. There's no time for any other scenario to take place.
 
colonelhall said:
I gave up following this thread, some time ago, as I came to realise that the same arguments are being repeated over and over again to absolutely no effect. I thought that I'd re-visit to see what people had to say about the recent Rudy verdict, which the press seems to think is a severe set-back to Knox and Solecito. I was stunned to see that 100 pages had gone by and that the means of entry to the flat was still being discussed.

All I see is the likes of SomeAlibi trying in vain to make reasonable points about the ludicrous window-entry theory and going to enormous lengths to back his arguments up with solid evidence only to be insulted by the usual crowd. I really think that some of you should stand back and take a serious look at yourselves.

At the end of the day, what we have is hundreds of pages of opinions put forth by around a dozen people who have shown that they have absolutely no intention of diverting from their outlandish theories, however convincing the opposing case may be. Ultimately they will have no effect whatsoever upon the outcome of the case.

Do people still believe Chris Melas, when he says that the jury was in tears, in spite of journalists' reports about a stone faced jury?

Do people seriously think that the entry was gained by Filomena's window, after looking at SomeAlibi's photos and video?

Do people seriously believe that Knox's interrogation lasted 14 hours, in spite of the timing of the cartwheels and the end of the witness statemen?

Do people seriously believe that Knox was waterboarded, whilst Rafael has not indicated any such treatment being applied to himself?

Yes, some people do believe these things, but they amount to about a handful of contributors to this site, full stop. So why not stop regurgitating the same old stuff, why not stop insulting serious contributors to the site and move on?

So anyway, looks bad for the pair, after yesterday, no?
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Glad to see you posting again. I agree that SA makes some good points. I see his arguments much the same way I view the arguments of Steve Moore on the innocent side. Everything is stated in absolute terms with no room for doubt. Both make good points but lose credibility with me when they both overstate the argument for one side and understate the argument for the other. Just my opinion.

I am pleased that Rudy was found guilty at the Supreme Court level. The court did not consider many of the things the defense teams of Amanda and Raffaele are presenting. The part that looks bad for AK and RS is that the court accepted the participation of Rudy with these two. The thing about this is that Rudy's defense was not arguing that Raffaele and Amanda did not participate which is something their defense teams will completely argue against.
 
"BUT that was after a 14 hour intense interrogation with no lawyer present"

There we go again!

Take the time that the witness statement was finished, deduct the cartwheels and what have we got? 2 hours?

It's been so long that I first saw this discussed, but surely here is one thing that we can all agree upon.

As for Guede's verdict. The significance, as I see it, is that the court is agreed that he did not act alone.

Guede acting alone = good for Knox

Guede acting with others = bad for Knox.
 
Chris C said:
There is no evidence he was sent to fence them. He was in possession of so much stuff he was fencing it?
What there is evidence of is he is in possession of stuff that was stolen by accessing an office using a second story window. He was also caught on previous occassions breaking into other places. He was on a murder scene in which a 2nd story window was also broken and yet people refuse to accept that he entered using the window.
A window he supposedly stood under for 3 hours waiting for knox/sollecito to arrive to help him kill meredith.(thats mignini's theory) Last I checked there was video surveillance of Rudy arriving around 830pm which happens to be the time he claims to have arrived at Meredith's. Sadly people believe he waited 3 hours. Waited 3 hours without a cell phone or anyway to contact Sollecito or Knox. Not counting the fact that he has never met Sollecito and didn't even know Knox was dating Sollecito.

Yet there is no evidence that Rudy broke into the Office. Well other than the fact that he had items stolen from there. Plus left his dna and fingerprints at another crime scene which also happened to have another break in through a 2nd story window. A crime scene which had a lady murdered by a knife. Plus to top that off, he pulled a knife on another woman at a place he broke in also. Plus he got into a fight with another man, at a home he broke into. Yet Guilters want you to believe that Rudy wasn't capable of breaking into Meredith's home. They want you to believe he would knock on the door or ring the door bell. Yet he was physically caught at 2 other locations by people that where present when he broke in.
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I had reasoned that if there was any truth that had been uncovered about the Rudy as a police informant theory and/or these other so called crimes that Rudy had committed prior to the murder, then this information would come out at the time of the appeals. This has not happened and the Supreme Court ruling argues against any type of "fix" going on for Rudy. Still, the fact that none of these crimes we do know about were prosecuted still bothers me.
 
loverofzion said:
"Have you ever hd a dream where you thought you killed someone"?!

Are you for real.

amanda wasn't dreaming of killing that night, and I doubt you ever did either.

Seriously is that the best defense you can think up.
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Yes, I'm for real.
No, she didn't dream of killing anyone. According to the evidence, she didn't kill anyone.
No, it isn't a defense anymore than the fantasy of collusion with Guede is competent prosecution.
 
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TomCH said:
How does one carry an 8 lb. rock while climbing a wall, in your pocket? :D
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It is an interesting point. The testimony of the defense expert indicates he threw a similar rock threw the window for purposes of demonstration. The funny (to me at least) thing about this is that the prosecution got him to admit he missed the window with his first toss and had to have a go at it again, then proceeded to bog him down in a discussion regarding why he chose an overhand throw versus an underhand one (IIRC). I wish I had more details on this.
 
colonelhall said:
As for Guede's verdict. The significance, as I see it, is that the court is agreed that he did not act alone.

Guede acting alone = good for Knox

Guede acting with others = bad for Knox.
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But doesn't the time of death given in the Micheli Report give Knox an alibi?
 
RoseMontague said:
It is an interesting point. The testimony of the defense expert indicates he threw a similar rock threw the window for purposes of demonstration. The funny (to me at least) thing about this is that the prosecution got him to admit he missed the window with his first toss and had to have a go at it again, then proceeded to bog him down in a discussion regarding why he chose an overhand throw versus an underhand one (IIRC). I wish I had more details on this.
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That has been the key strategy for the Prosecution. When evidence supports the defense, they bog it down with discussion, some of which doesn't even relate to the evidence.

They did that with the autopsy.
 
RoseMontague said:
It is an interesting point. The testimony of the defense expert indicates he threw a similar rock threw the window for purposes of demonstration. The funny (to me at least) thing about this is that the prosecution got him to admit he missed the window with his first toss and had to have a go at it again, then proceeded to bog him down in a discussion regarding why he chose an overhand throw versus an underhand one (IIRC). I wish I had more details on this.
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Easy. Swing out from the planter to the right of the window, put one foot in the grating. Put the rock on the windowsill. Put both hands on the windowsill and both feet at the top of the grating. Smash the window with the rock.
 
luminol is not a confirmatory test for blood

tronic said:
The break-in was staged, the cleanup occurred -- but not well enough. AK's bloodied bare footprints were measured in the corridor -- the footprint of RG plainly on the bathmat.
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tronic,

What are you claiming is evidence of a cleanup? There were some luminol-positive footprints in the corridor pointing toward Meredith's room. There is no reason to conclude that they were made in blood, and the lack of Meredith's DNA tends to argue that the substance was not blood. And without reference footprints from Laura or Filomena, there is no reason to conclude that they were Amanda's.
 
Withnail1969 said:
But doesn't the time of death given in the Micheli Report give Knox an alibi?
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The way I understand it:

Rudy is convicted of taking part in a Murder/Rape before 1030pm.

Knox/Sollecito are convicted in the same Murder/Rape over an hour later. A time in which Guede has reasonable doubt he could have even been there.
 
"Guede acting alone = good for Knox

Guede acting with others = bad for Knox."

Am I wrong about this. or do you prefer to talk about rock throwing and Guede's remarkable Spiderman attributes?
 
Chris C said:
The way I understand it:

Rudy is convicted of taking part in a Murder/Rape before 1030pm.

Knox/Sollecito are convicted in the same Murder/Rape over an hour later. A time in which Guede has reasonable doubt he could have even been there.
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In that case, case closed. Curatolo unequivocally places Knox and Sollecito at the basketball court until at least 11:30 pm. He knows that because he saw the disco buses.
 
.... or luminol, or time of death?

The fact is that the court appears to have confirmed that Guede did not act alone. With whom did he act?

There appears to be not one hair not one speck of blood etc. belonging to anyone other than the two accused.

Whatever side of the fence you are on, you've got to say it is looking bad for Knox.
 
Withnail1969 said:
Easy. Swing out from the planter to the right of the window, put one foot in the grating. Put the rock on the windowsill. Put both hands on the windowsill and both feet at the top of the grating. Smash the window with the rock.
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Everyone seems to think that rock weighs alot. Heck I could throw my 16 pound bowling ball through that window from the ground. Plus your get an extra foot or two help because of the slope.
 
colonelhall said:
"Guede acting alone = good for Knox

Guede acting with others = bad for Knox."

Am I wrong about this. or do you prefer to talk about rock throwing and Guede's remarkable Spiderman attributes?
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Well spider man broke into another office using a 2nd story window as access.
 
colonelhall said:
.... or luminol, or time of death?

The fact is that the court appears to have confirmed that Guede did not act alone. With whom did he act?

There appears to be not one hair not one speck of blood etc. belonging to anyone other than the two accused.

Whatever side of the fence you are on, you've got to say it is looking bad for Knox.
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They were at the basketball court when the murder happened. That's what the Micheli Report and Antonio Curatolo say.
 
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