Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RoseMontague]

I believe the only person posting who has access to the raw crime scene footage which would hopefully include such pictures if they exist is Charlie Wilkes but as we know, he only shares what he wants to / is allowed to. A great shame since selective disclosure is a profound barrier to fair evaluation of evidence.

Massei indicates the pictures don't show glass on top of the clothes either. Do you think that Charlie has pictures that Massei does not? What do you think the pictures would show that Massei would not have covered in the report?

We know that there was testimony that the wall appeared undisturbed yet a scuff mark on top of the lower window sill and an apparent nail that had become dislodged as well as one that had not has been pointed out in the photo's.

 

[RoseMontague]

I think I've just found (another) one

In other news - due to govt. cutbacks the Argument Clinic has been merged with the "The Ministry of Silly Walks" with predictable results.

.

Maybe we can laugh with each other rather than at each other then.

 

[quadraginta]

Can you point to the pictures such as you would have taken that clearly establish that the break in was staged? One showing the glass on top of the clothes would be a start.

I'm cool with the one that showed the glass on top of the windowsill that no one had ever crawled over.

Or how about the pictures showing that the wall and garden below the window are undisturbed.

Tell ya what. You steer us to a collection of every single photo that was taken at the scene, and we'll go over them together.

 

[quadraginta]

I've asked for citations or links many times from those on the guilt side and I've been told to find them myself. If you don't want to use the search function on the forum, I don't care.

Got nothin', eh?

 

[SomeAlibi]

How would we send Chris Mellas down there?

You send him an email saying "hey Chris, take some pictures of the cottage at night will you? Love, the team x0x0x0x0x0".

I know I'm a captain of industry and that these things come easy to me but there's no charge.

 

[RoseMontague]

Here is another one on the PG's closing argument at Guede's Supreme court appeal.

The pg Gualanella has literally torn to pieces, in his summing just ended and lasted an hour, all ten grounds of appeal submitted by the Advocate Walter Biscotti, Guede's defense. L'ivoriano è stato condannato a 16 anni di reclusione dalla Corte d'assise d'appello di Perugia, il 22 dicembre 2009, con una sentenza che il pg ha definito "corretta, logica, ineccepibile, rispettosa dei principi del giusto processo" e che opera una ricostruzione "del tutto legittima dell'intera vicenda e del concorso del Guende nell'omicidio della povera vittima". The Ivorian was sentenced to 16 years imprisonment by the Assize Court of Appeal, Perugia, December 22, 2009, in a ruling that the pg he called "proper, logical, exemplary, respectful of the principles of due process and which makes a reconstruction of the whole affair completely legitimate and the lowing of the competition in the murder of the innocent victim. " Separatamente è in corso il processo d'appello per i due complici di Guede, Amanda Knox e Raffaele Sollecito. Separately is in the process of appeal for the two accomplices to Guede, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. In primo grado Guede era stato condannato a 30 anni dal gup di Perugia, il 28 ottobre 2008. At first instance Guede was sentenced to 30 years from the GUP of Perugia, October 28, 2008. In appello la concessione delle attenuanti generiche ha portato alla riduzione della pena, non contestata dal pg Gualanella. On appeal, the granting of extenuating circumstances led to the reduction of sentence was not contested by Gualanella pg.

http://translate.google.com/transla.../temporeale.libero.it/libero/fdg/4493508.html

Maybe the news media in Italy doesn't get this thing about fast track appeals either.

 

[Withnail1969]

You send him an email saying "hey Chris, take some pictures of the cottage at night will you? Love, the team x0x0x0x0x0".

I know I'm a captain of industry and that these things come easy to me but there's no charge.

He doesn't know who i am and i don't know his email address. I'm also not on any team except the truth team.

 

[Withnail1969]

Got nothin', eh?

The information was all there last time i checked 5 minutes ago.

 

[SomeAlibi]

Thanks, I'll pencil these in but I really like to include a reference to the sources for each entry in my timeline. I don't think it would look too good to list "SomeAlibi" as the source.





I recall from somewhere that Raffaele said he woke up about that time and then went back to bed. He didn't say how late he stayed up and he may not have even been aware of how late it was. He did mention he thought he received a message form his dad around 11PM. If he saw that time that the message was sent before going to bed it would be consistent.





I think it's in there. At least it should be since it is sourced.

Dan - a genuine question and I'm not being cheap here: have you read Massei? The computer activity of the morning of 2nd November is primary evidence in the case, detailed in the judge's summary and is uncontested in that it happened by the defence. I'm confused. I rate this together with the received SMS from Raffaele's father (did you get that?) as up there with some of the most problematic evidence in the case against AK & RS.

Source: Massei Report english version: Sections: RAFFAELE SOLLECITO’S ‚MACBOOK PRO‛-MODEL APPLE LAPTOP // THE NON-EXISTENT WEB-BROWSING ACTIVITY ACCORDING TO THE POSTAL POLICE p.299 - p.307.

The fine detail is at the top of p.304. The section from p.307 which is THE TECHNICAL REPORT FROM THE SOLLECITO DEFENCE TEAM CONSULTANTS contains the detail of the 4 second access of the Apple site.

 

[RoseMontague]

Dan - a genuine question and I'm not being cheap here: have you read Massei? The computer activity of the morning of 2nd November is primary evidence in the case, detailed in the judge's summary and is uncontested in that it happened by the defence. I'm confused. I rate this together with the received SMS from Raffaele's father (did you get that?) as up there with some of the most problematic evidence in the case against AK & RS.

Source: Massei Report english version: Sections: RAFFAELE SOLLECITO’S ‚MACBOOK PRO‛-MODEL APPLE LAPTOP // THE NON-EXISTENT WEB-BROWSING ACTIVITY ACCORDING TO THE POSTAL POLICE p.299 - p.307.

The fine detail is at the top of p.304. The section from p.307 which is THE TECHNICAL REPORT FROM THE SOLLECITO DEFENCE TEAM CONSULTANTS contains the detail of the 4 second access of the Apple site.

Wasn't the conclusion of the 4 second access one that maybe Raffaele returned to the apartment after the murder if it was human interaction? They also missed the Naruto file as pointed out in Raffaele's appeal (quote I posted earlier today).

The police computer experts have shown they are not so expert. The additional information developed since the filing of the appeal and the additional appeal documents on the screen-saver logs is also worth looking into.

 

[SomeAlibi]

Massei indicates the pictures don't show glass on top of the clothes either. Do you think that Charlie has pictures that Massei does not? What do you think the pictures would show that Massei would not have covered in the report?

We know that there was testimony that the wall appeared undisturbed yet a scuff mark on top of the lower window sill and an apparent nail that had become dislodged as well as one that had not has been pointed out in the photo's.

Good point, Massei did say that about the glass pictures. Presumably pictures for the outside do exist. Don't know the scuffs or nail you refer to. The main nail outside remained undisturbed. By the way, you lot are terribly brittle and fragile with comments like "Do you think Charlie has pictures that Massei does not?" - I did quite plainly say if they existed and you made a perfectly good point.

Did you retract your comment about John Kercher "whining" about his murdered daughter by the way?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

When should the defense make its argument?

A great shame since selective disclosure is a profound barrier to fair evaluation of evidence.

SomeAlibi,

I agree, and that is why I have repeatedly raised the problem of the prosecution's not disclosing the electronic data files, standard operating procedures, and other forensic information. I know that you have agreed that full disclosure is proper in this matter as well, although some here (TomCH, for example) have contested my assertions that it did not happen in this case. If you were a defense attorney in this case, would you raise the issue in the appeal documents or during the actual appeal itself?

 

[SomeAlibi]

He doesn't know who i am and i don't know his email address. I'm also not on any team except the truth team.

I've got it if you want it. Let me know. I'll be hanging out with the Lies Believed by 19 Judges and a Jury Who Convicted 2x more Italian Residents Than Americans team.

 

[RoseMontague]

Good point, Massei did say that about the glass pictures. Presumably pictures for the outside do exist. Don't know the scuffs or nail you refer to. The main nail outside remained undisturbed. By the way, you lot are terribly brittle and fragile with comments like "Do you think Charlie has pictures that Massei does not?" - I did quite plainly say if they existed and you made a perfectly good point.

Did you retract your comment about John Kercher "whining" about his murdered daughter by the way?

That's not what I said he was whining about. You can quote me if you like.

 

[Withnail1969]

I've got it if you want it. Let me know. I'll be hanging out with the Lies Believed by 19 Judges and a Jury Who Convicted 2x more Italian Residents Than Americans team.

If you could ask him to do it then that would be great. Could we get some shots from the viewpoint of someone walking along the road from the balcony side of the cottage, but without your Photoshop extra-dark filters.

 

[SomeAlibi]

The window id above the road level.

And perfectly visible in all your pictures.

And Italians drive on the right, so as you drive on the road going into Perugia going from the rear of the cottage to the front gate, you are on the side of the road closest to the cottage and you would look out of the car right down over the railings to the "throwing area" and the climbing area

 

[Katody Matrass]

Cheap score acknowledged but if you can explain why I have two black ones as well in the original directory also I'd be most grateful.

I'm not saying it was you who manipulated it Maybe a kid played with your PC or a cat walked across the keyboard. As for the other "two black ones" it's hard to say unless you post them. They may be simply underexposed.
The one that you did post isn't. It is altered.

I know you guys don't like motivations but one does not become a master conspiracist by deliberately manipulating an image of a place which is publicly accessible to anyone who wants to go and take a picture of any time.

Neither by deliberately choosing such a picture to make his point, despite having perfectly good pictures at hand. Yet you did it. I agree that it wasn't a masterpiece. It got exposed quickly and without sending Chris Mellas anywhere. Maybe it was a cheap bluff, maybe a honest mistake, but a pattern of 3 such mistakes in a row certainly raises eyebrows.

 

[moodstream]

I can't emphasise this enough - just because you can invent a reason to support the way you want everything to fall, doesn't mean it's remotely convincing.

Words to live by.

 

[RoseMontague]

Here is the one somebody posted showing what could be a nail that has been dislodged as well as what could be some scuff marks on the wall.

Ron Hendry pointed out the scuff mark on a picure posted at IIP, it is the one with the arrow pointing to the scuff mark.

 

[SomeAlibi]

SomeAlibi,

I agree, and that is why I have repeatedly raised the problem of the prosecution's not disclosing the electronic data files, standard operating procedures, and other forensic information. I know that you have agreed that full disclosure is proper in this matter as well, although some here (TomCH, for example) have contested my assertions that it did not happen in this case. If you were a defense attorney in this case, would you raise the issue in the appeal documents or during the actual appeal itself?

I support full disclosure of evidence wherever possible and I would always apply for everything within my power. Unfortunately I don't know the rules of access or disclosure under the Italian system which would guide the content of an appeal but of course I support maximum disclosure.