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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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switching positions

If a highly respected and experienced Jurist who has spent over a year examining evidence in and and additionally out of the courtroom, and has allowed some of the highest paid attorneys in the country to attempt to show him their 'coherent explanations'; yet he and 5 others unanimously reject the best coherent explanations of innocenti arguments that money can buy...who are the non innocenti posters here to be challenged by you over and over for more?
And then only to suffer your repeated lofty holier than thou insinuations of inability if they wisely defer.

If an arguer concurs with anything Judge Massei's 427 page long labored production concludes, you drag out another tired overused questionably appropriate accusation of arguments from authority, which IMHO is little more than arguing by obstructionism, or in legal terminology, abuse of process.

If an arguer argues other points, he is accused of pulling moles out of hibernation or belatedly parsed and nitpicked ad nauseam.

Let's face the inevitable...if you are unsatisfied after over 35,000 attempts and over a year of trial evidence, and the 427 pages of coherent explanation..may I respectfully opt out of any attempts at yet another personal 'coherent explanation' which IMHO is an obviously already rejected 'mole' by the innocenti cabal here .

pilot padron,

I lost all confidence in the Massei report when it became obvious that it violated a fundamental tenet of forensic genetics in its explanation of the bra clasp DNA. Other commenters have been pointing out flaws for roughly the last 370 pages of this thread or so. On the other hand, there are pieces of evidence, as yet untested, that would cause me to switch my position, depending on the results. Can you make a comparable statement? Is there anything that would cause you to switch yours?
 
I said: I have seen enough documentaries and read enough to know that the body, motive and proximity to the murder scene is enough for conviction.

Your reply:
By that standard Amanda is plainly guilty.

That is why anybody that lives in the same house where a body (not dead by natural causes) is found is always a suspect; (s)he is always assumed guilty until being proven innocent.

But then Guede was convicted...
 
Clearly you have an advanced degree in tabloid psychology. You know exactly how to tell innocent people from guilty people just by watching their behavior. :rolleyes:

Nice try. I never said she was guilty because of her behavior, but I found it funny how Truethat was saying that Amanda had to be careful of how she acted in court, when it's obvious that she was not that concerned. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
mitigation

What were you referring to?

shuttlt,

Rudy received a reduction for mitigation (if that is the correct word), as well as for the fast-track nature of his trial. Amanda and Raffaele also received a reduction for mitigation that the prosecution is appealing.
 
Induced, internalized, false confession. All the police had to do was raise their voices and act mean and Amanda lost her head and babbled anything the cops wanted her to say. She went from cartwheels to copping out in just a few hours.:rolleyes:

And like most authoritarian followers, you simply reject the science behind false confessions.

Then you follow up by using confirmation bias, picking whatever part of Amanda's statements make her most guilty, rejecting the parts that indicate she is simply confused and bewildered, ignoring the parts that simply can't be true.
 
Rudy calls Amanda and Raff the killers, and the prosecution does not appeal his sentence reduction. Sounds like a good outcome from Rudy's perspective.

Your post: DOES NOT APPEAL.

My reply : they CANNOT........Does not and CANNOT.........see the difference?????
 
Waiting to hear about Raff's statement as to who the real killer was/ See y'all later.......Time to think of a response that makes sense, Yes???????
 
Nice try. I never said she was guilty because of her behavior, but I found it funny how Truethat was saying that Amanda had to be careful of how she acted in court, when it's obvious that she was not that concerned. Nothing more, nothing less.

Amanda sees a friend in court and smiles. It's a good indication she is happy to see her friend, but nothing more.

The tabloids are experts at telling us what to believe. If Amanda had not cracked a smile during her courtroom appearance, it would be presented as proof she was guilty.
 
From her teacher and one of her employers

I'm going out. Halides, could you provide an example, while I;m gone, about a reason why, Patrick would have like to keep Amanda in his employ? One Good word? Just ONE???? Thanks.

Oh, and anyone want to give an explanation as to Raff asking for the real killer confessing? After Rudi was convicted? Seems he didn't think the Court had convicted the REAL KILLER? Damn...With all that evidence??? What was he THINKING????????

capealadin,

Raffaele wished for the real killer to confess. There is nothing in his statement that implies he thinks Rudy is the wrong guy; Rudy has not confessed. Patrick said that Amanda was a good person on the morning or afternoon of the 5th of November. Let us consider what one of Ms. Knox’s employers thought of her, as Riccardo Stagliano did:

“If she’ll be freed earlier, one who is ready to hire her right away is Rick Kirsten. She worked for this art gallery owner for two months. but he’s betting on her qualities, as if he has known her forever. ‘I put an ad, I had 31 applications and I chose her. She used to finish her work in half the time and she would ask for more. And she knew how to deal with people’. His favorite episode-that Amanda’s parents recommended he tell me is about a 8-10 years old girl that seemed to be lost in the crowd at the gallery.

‘I was getting ready to go to take care of her, but a client stopped me, and Amanda was there already and the child was happily laughing.’ Not to speak of Amanda’s kindness to his father, a 90 years old painter and zen meditative that was often at the gallery.”

Riccardo Stagliano also reported that teacher Kris Johnson said, “She reads a lot of books, she thinks a lot. She could only attend one course but she was following two. She was writing me emails to comment on the classes. It was a pleasure to teach her.”
 
Anyone want to add their thoughts about Raff asking for the REAL KILLER confessing? After Rudi was already convicted? Why didn't Raff think it was a just verdict? Who did he think was the REAL KILLER?....This, by the way, at the end of HIS trial? After Rudi's DNA was confirmed? WHO did he think it was then?


Its certainly a puzzler :boggled: - Perhaps, like AK he didn't want to seem non-pc by blaming the black guy.
 
mitigation versus fast track

Your post: DOES NOT APPEAL.

My reply : they CANNOT........Does not and CANNOT.........see the difference?????

capealadin,

Rudy's sentence was reduced for mitigation as well as being a fast track trial. Are you claiming that the prosecution could not appeal the mitigation?
 
Amanda sees a friend in court and smiles. It's a good indication she is happy to see her friend, but nothing more.

The tabloids are experts at telling us what to believe. If Amanda had not cracked a smile during her courtroom appearance, it would be presented as proof she was guilty.

By the way, where were all the *friends*? How many chockies did she have? Oh, wait, only enough for Raff. How come she's not smiling now? No more friends.........or reality? Not singing either, now that I see the vid. I guess, only a guess, mind you, could it be, that the jury weighed the evidence, and were not taken in? Guilty........on the EVIDENCE.....
 
later

Waiting to hear about Raff's statement as to who the real killer was/ See y'all later.......Time to think of a response that makes sense, Yes???????

capealadin,

With due respect, it is your comment that does not make sense. Raffaele wished for the real killer to confess. If Raffaele believes that Rudy is the real killer, his sentiment makes perfectly good sense. Rudy has never confessed to murder or sexual assault.
 
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capealadin,

Rudy's sentence was reduced for mitigation as well as being a fast track trial. Are you claiming that the prosecution could not appeal the mitigation?

SIGH. The prosecution CANNOT APPEAL FAST TRACK TRIALS. Halides, Keep up....Don't ask questions, you don't know the answer to.....
 
pilot padron,

On the other hand, there are pieces of evidence, as yet untested, that would cause me to switch my position, depending on the results. Can you make a comparable statement? Is there anything that would cause you to switch yours?

Yes, of course; consider it made with complete sincerity.

Yes.
I anxiously await additional Appeal evidence to be presented, and argued, as well as re-examination of old evidence by highly qualified jurists and degreed, professionally accredited, court certified experts.
These sources who are equipped and backed up with something more credible to me than library cards, Google/You tube abilities, napkin constructed and documented time lines/scenarios and oh those endless self described areas of self evaluated expertise.
 
capealadin,

With due respect, it is your comment that does not make sense. Raffaele wished for the real killer to confess. If Raffaele believes that Rudy is the real killer, his sentiment makes perfectly good sense. Rudy has never confessed to murder or sexual assault.

Rudi may not have confessed to the murder,......However, he has accused Amanda and Raff as being the murderers. Go figure......
 
Norfolk Four and Frontline

Well, Halides, For a start, It was a terrible LIE, Blaming Patrick. You were taliking about lies......I'm listening.

capealadin,

A previous comment of mine already addressed your point about lying versus false statements, but I will expand on it a little. My overview of the pro-innocence position is that Amanda and Raffaele were pressured into making false statements by (at least) overzealous members of ILE. I am puzzled by your desire to rehash this debate—I am merely stating my position and what I take to the consensus of many pro-innocence commenters. I know your position is different.

About a month ago the PBS documentary series Frontline did a special on the Norfolk Four, four Navy men who gave false confessions/accusations. Each member had falsely confessed to being part of a rape-murder while also accusing a person who became the next person that Norfolk LE would arrest. They fell like dominoes (it was almost the Norfolk Seven!). Frontline filmed the first meeting among the four men after they were finally freed, despite LE’s unwillingness to admit that they had prosecuted the wrong guys. I felt trepidation as the scene began to unfold. Yet the men were quite forgiving and respectful of each other. One said words to the effect, “They [LE] played us all for fools.” I was very impressed with the sensible way they handled the situation. Take from this story what you will.
 
two reductions

SIGH. The prosecution CANNOT APPEAL FAST TRACK TRIALS. Halides, Keep up....Don't ask questions, you don't know the answer to.....

capealadin,

Rudy was sentenced to thirty years. He received a six-year reduction for mitigation, making it twenty-four years. Then his sentenced was reduced by one-third (eight years) for the fast track trial, giving him sixteen years in the end. I am not talking about the one-third sentence reduction; I am talking about the six-year reduction.
 
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