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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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The way I see this article is that Mr. Kercher is whining about a lack of sympathy from the Knox family and then goes on to say that the Knox girl is guilty, guilty, guilty. This is also after the Kercher's through their lawyer took an adversarial position in court against the Knox girl and fought along with the prosecution to keep the Knox girl in jail.

My opinion on this is that the Knox family has shown remarkable restraint on this subject. If it were my daughter I would be telling Mr. Kercher exactly where he could stick his sympathy.

Kind of harsh, don't you think? He complained, he didn't whine. Why is it ok for the Knoxs to fight for what they believe is true, but not the Kerchers?

And who's this Knox "girl"? She was a woman then, she's a woman now.
 
Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but for the alibi to be sound, don't they need evidence to support it rather than an absence of evidence proving that it is false? Without getting into an argument about their validity, surely the the bra clasp and the knife are evidence that their alibi is false? If those bits of evidence hold, and again I'm not seeking to start an argument that they do, then it doesn't really matter if they were seen out and about when they claimed to be at home or not.

Phone evidence, eye witness statement, computer evidence, and Sollecito/Knox giving each other an alibi. All this evidence has them at the Sollecito's apartment that night. The prosecution needs someone that proves they left. Curatolo was suppose to be that person. The knife evidence can't be duplicated plus it doesn't match the neck wounds. The bra clasp is clearly contaminated, even if you believe sollecito left his dna on it. It still has profiles of atleast 3 unidentified people. Plus the prosecution was so nice to say that they didn't test the pillow stain because they can't prove when it was deposited. The same standard can be applied to the bra. What are you left with?

Knox's dna in Knox's sink.
 
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I apologize for the lack of a reply yesterday, Justian2. I was out much of the day.

The way I see this article is that Mr. Kercher is whining about a lack of sympathy from the Knox family and then goes on to say that the Knox girl is guilty, guilty, guilty. This is also after the Kercher's through their lawyer took an adversarial position in court against the Knox girl and fought along with the prosecution to keep the Knox girl in jail.

My opinion on this is that the Knox family has shown remarkable restraint on this subject. If it were my daughter I would be telling Mr. Kercher exactly where he could stick his sympathy.

Mr. Kercher was not fortified and prepared to have his beloved daughter torn from his life by a brutal murder. Speaking only for myself, I do not feel qualified to judge him. But I am committed to freedom for Amanda and Raffaele, because they were not in any way involved in this terrible crime, and no peace or resolution is possible until the injustice is set right.
 
Kind of harsh, don't you think? He complained, he didn't whine. Why is it ok for the Knoxs to fight for what they believe is true, but not the Kerchers?

And who's this Knox "girl"? She was a woman then, she's a woman now.

So he is complaining about what. Knox being a minor celeb. Isn't he complaining to the media about knox being a celeb. Then them repeating what he is saying, thus making Knox a celeb. So therefore he himself is contributing to Knox being a celeb. Which means he is complaining about something he himself is doing.

Definition of Girl: A girl is any female human from birth through childhood and adolescence to attainment of adulthood. The term may also be used to mean a young woman.
 
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Kind of harsh, don't you think? He complained, he didn't whine. Why is it ok for the Knoxs to fight for what they believe is true, but not the Kerchers?

And who's this Knox "girl"? She was a woman then, she's a woman now.

I stated that if it was my daughter this is how I would respond. It would be the Hatfield and McCoy thing for me. My daughter is 29 and she is also still my little girl.

It is OK for both families to fight for their girls. Mr. Kercher expects sympathy from the Knox family at the same time he is trashing the Knox girl which to me is not in the "OK" area.
 
So he is complaining about what. Knox being a minor celeb. Isn't he complaining to the media about knox being a celeb. Then them repeating what he is saying, thus making Knox a celeb. So therefore he himself is contributing to Knox being a celeb. Which means he is complaining about something he himself is doing.

I think his major complaint is about the movies being made about the case. As I mentioned I think these movies are counter productive to both sides. Why did Amanda agree to it I wonder?

Edit: Read the comments to the article, that editorial in no way helped the Knox celeb angle.
 
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I stated that if it was my daughter this is how I would respond. It would be the Hatfield and McCoy thing for me. My daughter is 29 and she is also still my little girl.

It is OK for both families to fight for their girls. Mr. Kercher expects sympathy from the Knox family at the same time he is trashing the Knox girl which to me is not in the "OK" area.

It a very different thing to refer to one's own daughter as a girl no matter what her age and to call an adult woman people don't know as a girl, when she's not. I thought this was about the facts?

I'm reminded of the trial of Lyle and Erik and Menendez. Their lawyer tried the "they are just boys" sympathy angle too (they were in their 20s). Didn't work then either.
 
It a very different thing to refer to one's own daughter as a girl no matter what her age and to call an adult woman people don't know as a girl, when she's not. I thought this was about the facts?

I'm reminded of the trial of Lyle and Erik and Menendez. Their lawyer tried the "they are just boys" sympathy angle too (they were in their 20s). Didn't work then either.

You miss the point. My comment was if she was my daughter. You may refer to Amanda as the Knox woman if you want to. I make no call for sympathy for Amanda, just a comment on Mr. Kercher's request for sympathy from the Knox family.
 
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At the risk of being rapidly shot down...

Phone evidence,
Whose phone evidence? Has something come to light recently? I thought their phones where off at the crucial period, there was some evidence that Amanda had gone out at one point earlier on and Meridith's phone had a broken off call to the bank and so on.

eye witness statement,
A friend popped by Rafael's yes?

computer evidence,
I didn't think that established an alibi. Could you clarify?

Sollecito/Knox giving each other an alibi.
This is a joke, yes?

The prosecution needs someone that proves they left.
Clearly, since them leaving their apartment is implicitly assumed in them committing the crime.

Curatolo was suppose to be that person.
The prosecution surely don't need proof that they left over and above the proof that establishes that they committed the crime. What the prosecution can't cope with is proof that they didn't leave.

The knife evidence can't be duplicated
Agreed.

plus it doesn't match the neck wounds.
When I was last here that was the claim of one of the defense expert witnesses rather than an established fact. In any case, you are assuming one knife.

The bra clasp is clearly contaminated, even if you believe sollecito left his dna on it. It still has profiles of atleast 3 unidentified people.
There is clearly DNA on it that didn't get there during the murder.

Plus the prosecution was so nice to say that they didn't test the pillow stain because they can't prove when it was deposited.
Could you clarify what might be found that would show Amanda and Rafael are innocent?

The same standard can be applied to the bra. What are you left with?
Perhaps, but that is the evidence that proves, or doesn't prove, that they were involved in the murder not the stuff about the alibi. At worst, if the alibi turned out to be clearly nonsense all it would do is show that there was opportunity and that they lie when it's convenient (which the "guilters" believe anyway based on their interpretation of Amanda and Rafael's various statements to the police).
 
hypothetical

I stated that if it was my daughter this is how I would respond. It would be the Hatfield and McCoy thing for me. My daughter is 29 and she is also still my little girl.

It is OK for both families to fight for their girls. Mr. Kercher expects sympathy from the Knox family at the same time he is trashing the Knox girl which to me is not in the "OK" area.

RoseMontague,

If it were my son or daughter, I would not believe that my words of sympathy would be welcomed by the Kercher family. If Mr. Kercher had written that he bellieved Amanda to be guilty, but he also understood that Chris and Edda believe her to be innocent, then I might feel differently. But he wrote something very different.
 
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RoseMontague,

If it were my son or daughter, I would not believe that my words of sympathy would be welcomed by the Kercher family. If Mr. Kercher had written that he bellieved Amanda to be guilty, but he also understood that Chris and Edda believe her to be innocent, then I might feel differently. But he wrote something very different.

Yes. Mr. Kercher with this article makes his position against Amanda (a/k/a the Knox girl) clear. The fact that he whines about a lack of sympathy from Amanda's family is ridiculous, under the circumstances.
 
raffaele did not throw amanda under the bus

shuttit,

Raffaele essentially backed up Amanda when he appeared before Judge Matteini, his last words on the subject. His lawyers' arguments before the Supreme Court did not indicate that the two were not together on the night of the murder, contrary to some misinterpretations here and elsewhere.

Fat Finger Aside
I mistyped your username a moment ago but caught it just before sumitting. If it ever comes out looking vulgar, I plead poor typing skills.
 
At the risk of being rapidly shot down...
First you may not think it is, but if Curatolo's testimony gets tossed because its a load of BS, then the KEY witness that places Knox/Sollecito near the crime scene and breaks the Alibi is gone. This guy is labeled a superwitness for a reason. He places them at the scene during Mignini's imagined ToD. Yet Sollecito/Knox got a clear iron tight Alibi up till atleast 9:26pm. According to their lawyers they can place someone behind the computer during the 11:30 ToD, with the new computer evidence. However, without Curatolo's testimony they can't break the pre 10pm alibi. Which is the time frame that the majority of the evidence points to the actual ToD. Besides didn't Mignini float in the possibility of a 10:30 ToD at the end of the trial. Even he doesn't believe that line of BS he fed the Jury.
 
Raffaele essentially backed up Amanda when he appeared before Judge Matteini, his last words on the subject. His lawyers' arguments before the Supreme Court did not indicate that the two were not together on the night of the murder, contrary to some misinterpretations here and elsewhere.
I remember the confusion over this issue 20,000 posts ago. Really though, it's only important if one of them claims the other left for a couple of hours and came back covered in blood. Two people accused of a murder providing one another with an alibi is no kind of alibi. After all, they would say that, wouldn't they?

Fat Finger Aside
I mistyped your username a moment ago but caught it just before sumitting. If it ever comes out looking vulgar, I plead poor typing skills.
We go back long enough that that kind of nonsense doesn't matter. Strictly between ourselves, the second to last letter of my user name is a lower case L rather than an I. Everybody get's it wrong and it's my fault for choosing such a visually ambiguous name.
 
RoseMontague,

If it were my son or daughter, I would not believe that my words of sympathy would be welcomed by the Kercher family.

But Chris, you give those words anyway, even if you do not believe they would be welcomed, because it is the right thing to do. And you give those words of sympathy close in time to the death, not three years later. What was written in the recent press release by the Knox family is what should have, and could have been done three years ago.

If Mr. Kercher had written that he bellieved Amanda to be guilty, but he also understood that Chris and Edda believe her to be innocent, then I might feel differently. But he wrote something very different.

I think, in part, Mr. Kercher's article was in response to the television interview Amanda's mother and father gave earlier last week on Daybreak. The majority of his article was this:

So, today, I’d like to redress the balance and tell you about our irredeemable loss. About the Meredith we knew and loved.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ate-attack-cult-Foxy-Knoxy.html#ixzz1749b7yHG
 
First you may not think it is, but if Curatolo's testimony gets tossed because its a load of BS, then the KEY witness that places Knox/Sollecito near the crime scene and breaks the Alibi is gone.
Not my perspective, but OK.

This guy is labeled a superwitness for a reason. He places them at the scene during Mignini's imagined ToD. Yet Sollecito/Knox got a clear iron tight Alibi up till atleast 9:26pm.
From memory, is this the visitor who knocked on the door, or the phone log?

According to their lawyers they can place someone behind the computer during the 11:30 ToD, with the new computer evidence.
Is this new evidence known, or just hinted at by the lawyers?

However, without Curatolo's testimony they can't break the pre 10pm alibi.
I thought there was only an alibi until 9:26pm?
 
There's no one like Macavity

Kevin,

I've knocked up a little table (corrections welcome) to try to capture the argument about the late time of death, Curatolo and the alibi:

Late TOD___Curatolo reliable
Y__________Y_____________Problem for pro-innocence
Y__________N_____________Problem for pro-innocence
N__________Y_____________Problem for pro-guiltN__________N_____________Problem for pro-guilt

Am I missing something, or is Curatolo of secondary importance to the time of death?

Shuttlt

I'm afraid your line 3 misses a rather large problem that I tried to explain previously & judging by his earlier responses to me Kevin Lowe still** hasn't accepted.

See post & post

Basically you can't interpret C's testimony to give them a new alibi* - HE breaks their alibi.


Its fine for Cluedo or a parlour game but wont work in court.

No, they are both important.



**
<snip?>
It's quite an awkward fork Platonov is caught in, really.

1. If the evidence-based time of death cannot be moved back to 23:30, and it can't, and Curatolo is a sound witness, then Amanda and Raffaele are innocent because Curatolo gives them an alibi.<snip?>

.
 
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I stated that if it was my daughter this is how I would respond. It would be the Hatfield and McCoy thing for me. My daughter is 29 and she is also still my little girl.

It is OK for both families to fight for their girls. Mr. Kercher expects sympathy from the Knox family at the same time he is trashing the Knox girl which to me is not in the "OK" area.

I don't think Mr. Kercher expects sympathy from the Knox family, the time has well passed for that. His paragraph concerning the lack of condolences from the Knox family was, in my opinion, more a statement of fact, something that never happened (but could have).
 
My teachers were always more interested in content than spelling and so on. I don't particularly agree with them, errors like the one you pointed out piss me off. I am perfectly well aware that "get's" is wrong. Now please post something helpful to the debate.
 
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