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The Great Thermate Debate

Black smoke indicates an oxygen starved fire. C'mon dude. You must be confused with the aluminum oxide type, white smoke at the base of the towers just before the collapse.

Black smoke means cooling temperatures, as the fire does not have enough oxygen to progress in heat.

Smoke is MUCH more an indicator of the contents of a fire, as people here who have much more knowledge about fires than you have pointed out to you. So you don't trust the "shills" at JREF? Go to any firehouse on Earth and tell them that black smoke must indicate an oxygen-starved fire and report back.
 
"No sign of molten steel-type temperatures here, and certainly not ones lasting for months."

No?....So if the surface temp was APPROX.(NOTE THAT WORD) 2000F which is about 1000C, how hot do you think they would be under the debris?

Are you saying 1346F is approximately the same as 2000F?
 
STFU. Are you telling me that THOUSANDS of people died in the collapse and subsequent fires in 7WTC? No way.........WHERE?!?!?!? :rolleyes:

No, not in 7, but there are reports of people being "stepped over" on the way out. But that is probably just made up, just like Nanothermite, molten metal, iron rich sphere's, free fall (oops, we got ya there lol!) sounds of explosions, flashes of light, and all the other documented evidence. Truther’s made all of this up in there back yards. Especially the Nano-size particles found, that one took a while.
LMAO!!
 
Black smoke indicates an oxygen starved fire. C'mon dude. You must be confused with the aluminum oxide type, white smoke at the base of the towers just before the collapse.

Black smoke means cooling temperatures, as the fire does not have enough oxygen to progress in heat.

Ta Da!

And yet the black smoke was seen blowing South by the Southernly winds that day. That's some "oxygen starved" fire if the wind's blowing. :rolleyes:

White smoke at bottom of base doesn't constitute explosives going off. BTW, if there had been explosives at the base of the Towers, your hero Willy Rodrigez, would've been killed by the blast but he managed to survive. Whoops, you're mistake! :rolleyes:

Black smoke doesn't mean "cooling temperatures", does a fire in a fire pit cool off or does it maintain the heat? Again, the South winds prove that it wasn't "oxygen starved".
 
No?....So if the surface temp was APPROX.(NOTE THAT WORD) 2000F which is about 1000C, how hot do you think they would be under the debris?

"halfed baked farce"
No point getting upset. It's not my fault you incorrectly stated that "NASA images contridict your statment. They show pictures of surface temps approx 2000F", while pretending to have superior knowledge to others here.
 
Smoke is MUCH more an indicator of the contents of a fire, as people here who have much more knowledge about fires than you have pointed out to you. So you don't trust the "shills" at JREF? Go to any firehouse on Earth and tell them that black smoke must indicate an oxygen-starved fire and report back.

Are you saying that black smoke does not indicate cooling temps? My dad is a ret. FF, would you like to hear it from him, or how about Erik Laywer? How about Capt. Russo, who said he saw molten steel flowing like lava from a volcano.

Wait, I forgot, that's all made up.

LMAO!
 
How about Capt. Russo, who said he saw molten steel flowing like lava from a volcano.

Molten metal. There's no way he could have identified it as steel just by looking at it. Molten metal would not be an extraordinary sight with a fire. There are plenty of building materials with melting points far below the temperatures a fire can reach.
 
No point getting upset. It's not my fault you incorrectly stated that "NASA images contridict your statment. They show pictures of surface temps approx 2000F", while pretending to have superior knowledge to others here.

I said approx 2000F. I believe the actual temp on the surface was closer to 1500F, but I will have to look later. What ever the temp on top, it was way hotter under it, and fire cannot be resposible for this alone.
 
Are you saying that black smoke does not indicate cooling temps? My dad is a ret. FF, would you like to hear it from him, or how about Erik Laywer? How about Capt. Russo, who said he saw molten steel flowing like lava from a volcano.

Wait, I forgot, that's all made up.

LMAO!

Black smoke indicates that heat is being maintained, it wouldn't "cool".

Erik Lawyer is a mental nutcase. He's probably not a real firefighter.

Steel can't be melted until it reaches 2750*F, the temperature inside the Towers were well below the melting point. However aluminum's melting point is 1220*F, and the temperatures inside were hot enough to melt the aluminum siding.

So quit bull****ing us!
 
Molten metal. There's no way he could have identified it as steel just by looking at it. Molten metal would not be an extraordinary sight with a fire. There are plenty of building materials with melting points far below the temperatures a fire can reach.

Wrong! Fire does not melt steel. And Aluminum does not glow bright yellow in daylight at office fire temperatures which were only 650C. Well, that is according to Eagar over at MIT, but your friends at NIST claim 1800F.

Sounds like we need to investigate this NIST.
 
Black smoke indicates that heat is being maintained, it wouldn't "cool".

Erik Lawyer is a mental nutcase. He's probably not a real firefighter.

Steel can't be melted until it reaches 2750*F, the temperature inside the Towers were well below the melting point. However aluminum's melting point is 1220*F, and the temperatures inside were hot enough to melt the aluminum siding.

So quit bull****ing us!

Sorry buddy, Aluminum does not glow bright yellow in the day. At 1220F, it stays metallic. That means silvery. lol!
 
And you don't think that was misleading?

Wow, what a fraud. You'll fit right in with the truthers, but I'm not wasting a second longer on your lies. Adios.

Good one, leave the discussion because of a minor error, you guys make them all the time. I corrected myself didn't I?
 
I said approx 2000F. I believe the actual temp on the surface was closer to 1500F, but I will have to look later.

The actual temp on the surface was 1346F, which was provided to you in a post you already quoted.

What ever the temp on top, it was way hotter under it
Can you give specific value, instead of 'way hotter'?
 
Molten metal. There's no way he could have identified it as steel just by looking at it. Molten metal would not be an extraordinary sight with a fire. There are plenty of building materials with melting points far below the temperatures a fire can reach.

Then what type of metal was flowing like lava from a volcano? Aluminum? LOL!
 
LMAO!

Right, steel recuces to paper thin and has "gaping holes" and we won't check for anything at all, sound completly logical to me.

First of all, why are you saying this? NIST did indeed mention the corroded steel in NCSTAR 1-3C, and also pointed at Vander Voort's 2003 presentation of his portion of the Worcester Polytechnic team's findings. If you want to split hairs, it's true that NIST didn't investigate the steel, but it was well aware that the WPI group did, and they deliberately included mention of their findings in the Towers report. The knowledge is not lacking, and the questions behind how the corrosion occurred was hardly ignored. It was handled by the WPI group, and NIST clearly knew about this.

And as I've pointed out multiple times over in this very thread, the Worcester group was the one who picked up the task of studying the corrosion. I've given the researchers names - Barnett, Biederman, Sisson, Sullivan, Vander Voort, and outside of WPI, Banovich, Gayle, Foecke, etc. That's more than enough information for someone to track down the various writeups they've published regarding the sulfidation corrosion on the WTC steel, and it's known about by NIST. Again, they relied on those groups findings for the information they put in the Towers report.

You truthers cannot keep spinning things to make it appear as though the corrosion went unstudied. As we here have been trying to bang into your heads for years now, it's well studied, it's well categorized, and it's specifically because of the temperature ranges indicated by those studies as well as the microstructures left behind and noted by the WPI group that we know how the corrosion occurred. It was a sulfidation attack that took on the order of hours to days, and occurred at temperatures well below the reaction temp of thermate. This is known. Do a lookup on any of those search terms above and read their work. But please stop trying to make it out as though the erosion was unstudied. That's plain wrong.
 
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The actual temp on the surface was 1346F, which was provided to you in a post you already quoted.


Can you give specific value, instead of 'way hotter'?

Nice try, I don't speculate. The teperature is way over the degree of a normal office fire. Eagar said the fires did not get "much hotter than 650C"

If you know your conversions, that is approx 1200F. The surface temp alone exeeded that.
 

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