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North Korea readies missiles against the USA

Thanks to Wikileaks, now we know that the Chinese are tired of North Korea, and that they prefer peaceful solutions. It is unlikely that the Chinese will assist North Korea in case of war, particularly one that NK starts without provocation. It is not in their best economic interest, they are doing fine with the status quo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/north-korea-china-us-buck

I also think the Chinese Have also come to the conclusion that the current NK government is simply out of control and cannot be trusted.
It is amusing to see the apologists for North Korea in this section go through the paces, though.
 
Well its reality.....can you cite what military assets NK and China could trot out that wouldnt get shot down immediately. China is at least decades behind current US platforms hell their not even on par with our last generation of weapons in land sea or air.

Well, I mean, there are reports of the Chinese improving their capabilities with submarines; Chinese subs surfaced undetected close to the USS kittyhawk twice in recent years (officially 'by accident', but generally interpreted as a demonstration of their abilities). China's also been working on missiles for sea denial, both cruise and ballistic. US naval losses in a confrontation might be higher than you think.

As for North Korea, the real worry that has been pointed out here a few times isn't necessarily their tanks, planes, etc., but rather their strategic deterrent (not necessarily nuclear). If war breaks out, they'll do their best (probably) to inflict maximum damage on SK (maybe japan too) in a short period of time.
 
Well, I mean, there are reports of the Chinese improving their capabilities with submarines; Chinese subs surfaced undetected close to the USS kittyhawk twice in recent years (officially 'by accident', but generally interpreted as a demonstration of their abilities). China's also been working on missiles for sea denial, both cruise and ballistic. US naval losses in a confrontation might be higher than you think.

As for North Korea, the real worry that has been pointed out here a few times isn't necessarily their tanks, planes, etc., but rather their strategic deterrent (not necessarily nuclear). If war breaks out, they'll do their best (probably) to inflict maximum damage on SK (maybe japan too) in a short period of time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

Look at that link thats 40 year old technology dont you think that we have come a bit farther in that time? I have no doubt that China or NK could possibly come up with some small victories but the overall war against vastly superior weapons platforms would be crushing.
 
All of those countries are a far far far cry from NK. So what happens when NK central power is destroyed? Do they keep fighting or do they surrender hoping for a better life in the south? Keep in mind the vast majority of NK is living in dirt. NK has the resources to maintain their iron fist power over their people what will the people do when that power is gone? Were not talking about a western democracy like Australia where the people like their system were talking about NK where thinking the wrong things will get you killed.

So what is your explanation for the Paritsans in the Ukraine during WW2
 
Umm so I have miss read history. The US won in Vietnam?


If you really think that it would come to jungle warfare like Vietnam you may have a point but since SK would be the invading army what is your point?
 
If you really think that it would come to jungle warfare like Vietnam you may have a point but since SK would be the invading army what is your point?

How about you stick to the point you actually made - which was

I have no doubt that China or NK could possibly come up with some small victories but the overall war against vastly superior weapons platforms would be crushing.

So why didn't this prediction hold true for Vietnam? The only area the Vietnamese got close to parady with the US was in aircraft, and that was only with the handful of Soviet MIG pilots. Yet for 8 years the US was unable to defeat the NV forces...why?

And the same question can be asked of the Korean War. Tanks dominate the battlefield for the first 6 months of the war - then fade to a secondary role for the next few years....what changed?
 
Well, I mean, there are reports of the Chinese improving their capabilities with submarines; Chinese subs surfaced undetected close to the USS kittyhawk twice in recent years (officially 'by accident', but generally interpreted as a demonstration of their abilities).
Officially, anyway. Why would we let them know if they were detected? Far better to let them think they were undetected. I can't imagine the Navy ever saying "oh yeah, we heard that thing a hundred miles away".
 
So why didn't this prediction hold true for Vietnam? The only area the Vietnamese got close to parady with the US was in aircraft, and that was only with the handful of Soviet MIG pilots. Yet for 8 years the US was unable to defeat the NV forces...why?
Because we insisted on fighting the war the NVA wanted to fight, the only one they could win. And it didn't help that the ARVN was by and large ineffective.

S. Korea has a very effective military.
 
Interesting claim. Do you have anything to support it?

Nothing directly, but it's the logical inference from what we do know. Information is incredibly tightly controlled in North Korea. People are constantly bombarded with propaganda not just about how good Kim is and how evil we are, but also how strong they are and how pathetic and weak we are. Do a google search and you can see some examples of the message the regime is trying to create. Or for an example I found particularly useful for illuminating the reality inversion that goes on, this article claims that North Korea tells its people that food aid shipments are really reparations that the US sends to North Korea because we're scared of them.

Totalitarian regimes always need to create a fictitious reality in order to survive. And in North Korea, being especially brutal, the official party line is especially removed from reality. Nothing is ever allowed to contradict that narrative. And an understanding of what we can actually do to them would most definitely contradict what they've always been told. Now, it's possible that soldiers suspect that we're much stronger than Kim says we are. Truth can leak in, often times merely under the suspicion that reality is the opposite of what is claimed.

So let's suppose that all the soldiers secretly suspect the truth (I'm sure some do, but I doubt it's all of them). That alone is likely to undermine morale significantly in the event of an actual conflict. But even if it didn't, the command and control issues remain. Because regardless of what soldiers actually know, nothing about the truth can be publicly acknowledged. Which means the military cannot train to deal with reality, because to train for it is to acknowledge it. And an army that doesn't train for how to act independently, an army that is instead always told to do exactly what your superiors tell you to do (because no totalitarian regime has ever run their army differently), won't be able to act independently once those command structures are eliminated. Even if they know it's going to happen, that knowledge isn't enough to be effective. You need the training, you need the procedures in place, or as an organization it's all going to come apart at the seams.
 
How about you stick to the point you actually made - which was

I have no doubt that China or NK could possibly come up with some small victories but the overall war against vastly superior weapons platforms would be crushing.

So why didn't this prediction hold true for Vietnam? The only area the Vietnamese got close to parady with the US was in aircraft, and that was only with the handful of Soviet MIG pilots. Yet for 8 years the US was unable to defeat the NV forces...why?

And the same question can be asked of the Korean War. Tanks dominate the battlefield for the first 6 months of the war - then fade to a secondary role for the next few years....what changed?

Again what part of we wont be going into a ground war did you miss? Thats on SK to do the work
 


Russian technology. Impressive what they can do with so little resources having said that the Russians tend to overstate the abilities of their weapons systems while on the other hand the US tends to tell you as little as possible.
Take a look at the SR22 the actual top speed capabilities of that plane is still classified to this day and the Russians never could replicate the that plane nor could they figure out how to shoot it down. 50+ years later the Russians still like to trumpet their latest capabilities while the US just doesnt say much of anything.
 
I would not expect much from the railway system. The have about 5000 miles of lines, virtually all dating prior to WW2 - and if defectors etc are to be believed much of it has fallen out of use due to lack of up keep

Sounds like all the Kim's eggs are in the nuclear basket.
 
The majority of which would be eliminated with precision guided weapons in short order. Yeah they would inflict damage but im just guessing NK gets smacked in 24 hours.

They were saying that about Iraq. We're still getting grief from that quarter.
 
Russian technology. Impressive what they can do with so little resources having said that the Russians tend to overstate the abilities of their weapons systems while on the other hand the US tends to tell you as little as possible.
Take a look at the SR22 the actual top speed capabilities of that plane is still classified to this day and the Russians never could replicate the that plane nor could they figure out how to shoot it down. 50+ years later the Russians still like to trumpet their latest capabilities while the US just doesnt say much of anything.


I assume you mean the SR-71:

765px-Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg


Because this is the SR22

800px-CirrusDesignSR22C-FJSH02.JPG


:D
 
Yup there isnt an air force in the world that matches up with US capabilities. Seriously we spend stupid out of your mind money on RND for these planes no other country spends even half of what we spend on the most advanced technology. China is years behind our last generation of fighters never mind the 5th gen F-22 and F-35

Our being all that and a bag of chips didn't keep China from crashing US wargames via submarine. It's not always the size of your tool, but how you use it.
 
They were saying that about Iraq. We're still getting grief from that quarter.
Saddam's army folded rather quickly.

Are you suggesting China will send its troops into N. Korea disquised as civilians and planting mines along the roads?
 

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