Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[TomCH]

If Knox/Sollecito wins, I dont think its up to Mignini to appeal.

No, it would be up to the prosecutor. And he does have the right to appeal.

 

[TomCH]

If they are set free they will be paying for those 3 to 4 years of accommodations because they will get sued in court.

Yes, they would be entitled to the standard 20 or 30 Euros/day spent in jail, that's it.

 

[Withnail1969]

Yes, they would be entitled to the standard 20 or 30 Euros/day spent in jail, that's it.

If the 'witnesses' Capezalli and Quintavalle can be shown to be lying can Amanda sue them for calunnia?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

______________________

Ummm. To keep matters in perspective, Charlie, when speaking of an established pattern, it should be noted that "authorities in Perugia" also endowed a scholarship in Meredith's name and paid for the Kercher family hotel accommodations when the family stayed in Perugia. (Or were the "authorities in Perugia" lying about that too?)

///

Did they fund these expenditures, or did the taxpayers of Perugia foot the bill?

 

[Fine]

Do you have any documentation to support your claim about the scholarship? My presumption is that the scholarship is being endowed by Peter Quennell and/or British expatriates living in the region of Perugia.

Meredith was a student at the university in Perugia for less than two months. If authorities felt compelled to honor her in some way, it would be much more appropriate to keep it between themselves and her family. Do they really want to set their town apart by an annually renewed proclamation of the grisly crime of murder?
What possible honor would it be for a student to receive the Meredith Kercher Memorial Scholarship? What does it even stand for?

____________________________
Mary,

Here's one source, La Nazione

The scholarship was established by the city council, the mayor, and the university.

You make it sound like this scholarship is a bad idea. The scholarship is not intended to remember Meredith's death. It's intended to remember Meredith. And her life. Anyone would be honored to receive the scholarship. The actions of the Perugian authorities were honorable and fitting.

///

 

[Kaosium]

No, it would be up to the prosecutor. And he does have the right to appeal.

I dunno, I wouldn't think taking this case to them would be the best way for him to get a seat on that Supreme Court...

 

[Machiavelli]

Frankly this whole issue of contamination being almost impossible is ridiculous. AK and RS were having sex quite often. Not to be disgusting but there was Sollecito DNA all over the place. I mean think about it - toilet seats, bathroom floors, dirty clothes, sheets and blankets, for all we know it could have been all over the kitchen table. I could go on but I will spare everyone.

I think there wasn't, there is no reason to believe Sollecito's DNA was "all over the place" (what place?), and I think any indication of the opposite is missing while to mantaint there was abundant DNA, this should be proven. If you believe there is reason to assume the house was full of unfound traces DNA of Sollecito, on the same logical ground I will believe there is reason to assume murder room is full of unfound DNA of Sollecito.

Then, i think there is no reason to believe secondary or tertiary transfer occurred from traces on these "blankets" or toilet seats or kitchen table into Merediths room, and expecially not on Meredith's bra clasp, and not in dozen of skin cell stiking to metal. Such dynamics appear totally unlikely when you focus on them.

 

[RoseMontague]

I think there wasn't, there is no reason to believe Sollecito's DNA was "all over the place" (what place?), and I think any indication of the opposite is missing while to mantaint there was abundant DNA, this should be proven. If you believe there is reason to assume the house was full of unfound traces DNA of Sollecito, on the same logical ground I will believe there is reason to assume murder room is full of unfound DNA of Sollecito.

Then, i think there is no reason to believe secondary or tertiary transfer occurred from traces on these "blankets" or toilet seats or kitchen table into Merediths room, and expecially not on Meredith's bra clasp, and not in dozen of skin cell stiking to metal. Such dynamics appear totally unlikely when you focus on them.

I think the dynamics of several profiles other than Meredith's found on the bra clasp is totally unlikely without contamination having occurred. Do you believe that these were Raffaele's skin cells on the metal clasp?

 

[Withnail1969]

I think the dynamics of several profiles other than Meredith's found on the bra clasp is totally unlikely without contamination having occurred. Do you believe that these were Raffaele's skin cells on the metal clasp?

Thinking about it logically, if the killers knew enough to perform such an expert cleanup, why would they forget to dispose of the bra clasp which they must have known carried a high risk of carrying DNA, given that they had been handling it?

Yet another part of the guilter narrative which doesn't seem to make any sense.

 

[Withnail1969]

I think there wasn't, there is no reason to believe Sollecito's DNA was "all over the place" (what place?), and I think any indication of the opposite is missing while to mantaint there was abundant DNA, this should be proven. If you believe there is reason to assume the house was full of unfound traces DNA of Sollecito, on the same logical ground I will believe there is reason to assume murder room is full of unfound DNA of Sollecito.

Then, i think there is no reason to believe secondary or tertiary transfer occurred from traces on these "blankets" or toilet seats or kitchen table into Merediths room, and expecially not on Meredith's bra clasp, and not in dozen of skin cell stiking to metal. Such dynamics appear totally unlikely when you focus on them.

Machiavelli, why didn't the killers just dispose of the bra clasp?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

fingerprint DNA

Thanks for pointing this out. I have contacted Bruce and asked him to fix it.

Charlie,

Were Sollecito's fingerprints found on the door? If so, some of his DNA was there, whether they tested for it or not.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

forensic fraud

Here is a link to a compilation of articles on forensic fraud. Some of the cases were familiar to me, but not all. I have not gone through everything here, but it looks useful.

addendum
Here is a link on the subject of forensic misadventures that are not fraud.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Charlie,

Were Sollecito's fingerprints found on the door? If so, some of his DNA was there, whether they tested for it or not.

Yes, two of his fingerprints were found on the outside of Meredith's door.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

How common is DNA contamination?

In an article about the Gesah case from Victoria, Peter Gregory and coauthors wrote,
“The [Gesah] case is not the first in which DNA evidence has been contaminated. In 2003, Mr Scheffer told an inquest on Moe toddler Jaidyn Leskie that since late 1999, 39 cases had been identified as requiring ‘diagnostic and corrective action’, with most involving contamination.In the Leskie case, unrelated DNA from a rape victim was found on the toddler's clothing during a 2003 check of the centre's DNA database.
Commenting on this in his October 2006 Leskie inquest findings, Coroner Graeme Johnstone concluded: ‘Clearly, contamination occurred somewhere in the laboratory process. Precisely how and where this has occurred in the laboratory has not been able to be determined.’”
Highlighting added

 

[Mary_H]

____________________________
Mary,

Here's one source, La Nazione

The scholarship was established by the city council, the mayor, and the university.

You make it sound like this scholarship is a bad idea. The scholarship is not intended to remember Meredith's death. It's intended to remember Meredith. And her life. Anyone would be honored to receive the scholarship. The actions of the Perugian authorities were honorable and fitting.

///

Thank you, Fine. The news reports do say the city council, mayor and university are behind it, but that is not to say they didn't receive some encouragement in the form of contributions or pledges. I think it's a bad idea only if it is an extension of Peter Quennell's idolatry of Meredith.

I'm not sure a student would be honored to receive it, if it requires them to dwell on its origin. I have heard of laws and books memorializing crime victims, but not scholarships. I would think it would be painful for a city to have to continually acknowledge that a university student was murdered on their watch. I would think it would be something they would want forgotten by visitors, especially new students. I wouldn't be surprised if they rethink this in coming years, and quietly let it lapse.

In my opinion, it would be more appropriate to memorialize Meredith in the milieu of her family and immediate community, for who she was, and not in a foreign town, for what happened to her there.

 

[Withnail1969]

Thank you, Fine. The news reports do say the city council, mayor and university are behind it, but that is not to say they didn't receive some encouragement in the form of contributions or pledges. I think it's a bad idea only if it is an extension of Peter Quennell's idolatry of Meredith.

I'm not sure a student would be honored to receive it, if it requires them to dwell on its origin.

I'm far from superstitious, but such a scholarship would seem to me to be an omen of bad luck for the recipient. I don't think i would want it.

 

[Justinian2]

Forensic Fraud

Here is a link to a compilation of articles on forensic fraud. Some of the cases were familiar to me, but not all. I have not gone through everything here, but it looks useful.

addendum
Here is a link on the subject of forensic misadventures that are not fraud.

Great links! I saved the shortcuts to my desktop.

Funny how the judicial system has millions of laws that are not taught to the majority by the public school systems. The judicial systems (including the police) are all to eager to trap us with a 'gotcha' (like lying during an interrogation) and yet they completely ignore forensic fraud and mischief.

The public needs to be better informed. Just as videos of excessive police force have slowed that injustice, so too will a public informed of these other police and judicial crimes slow them.

Historically it's shown that the government will not be a good watchdog for their own agencies.

If the public knew more about police misadventures and forensic fraud before the Amanda Knox case, it would not be AK and RS that were spending time in jail.

 

[Mary_H]

Here is a link to a compilation of articles on forensic fraud. Some of the cases were familiar to me, but not all. I have not gone through everything here, but it looks useful.

addendum
Here is a link on the subject of forensic misadventures that are not fraud.

Wow, there are so many, it makes it looks like it happens more often than not.

 

[Amazer]

In an article about the Gesah case from Victoria, Peter Gregory and coauthors wrote,
“The [Gesah] case is not the first in which DNA evidence has been contaminated. In 2003, Mr Scheffer told an inquest on Moe toddler Jaidyn Leskie that since late 1999, 39 cases had been identified as requiring ‘diagnostic and corrective action’, with most involving contamination.In the Leskie case, unrelated DNA from a rape victim was found on the toddler's clothing during a 2003 check of the centre's DNA database.
Commenting on this in his October 2006 Leskie inquest findings, Coroner Graeme Johnstone concluded: ‘Clearly, contamination occurred somewhere in the laboratory process. Precisely how and where this has occurred in the laboratory has not been able to be determined.’”
Highlighting added

About the highlighted part.... the raw number doesn't tell us much. Is it 39 cases out of 40 or is it 39 cases out of 1 million.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Thinking about it logically, if the killers knew enough to perform such an expert cleanup, why would they forget to dispose of the bra clasp which they must have known carried a high risk of carrying DNA, given that they had been handling it?

Yet another part of the guilter narrative which doesn't seem to make any sense.

What do you think Amanda and RS were looking for with the two night lites? The clasp was under the pillow, under the body, they looked, but couldn't find it.....