Wikileaks is an enemy of the United States

[deepatrax]

I have to wonder if it's the fact that these are classified documents being leaked that is causing people to be angry. Or maybe it's the fact that the information is showing a very disturbing trend in America's military decisions and tactics.

Politicians ELECTED by the American People are acting in the best interest of the American people...which can sometimes anger leaders and citizens of our allies and enemies.

oh no!! say it ain't so!!

I don't care if it was a document describing a dinner between Hillary and Obama discussing their favorite wine. If it's a CLASSIFIED document, it should remain so.

 

[deepatrax]

As long as I wear a ninja outfit, I can "target" anyone I want and kill them?

You can try. Do you think you can get away with it?

Act in your own best interests.

And so will the U.S.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Politicians ELECTED by the American People are acting in the best interest of the American people...

Unless they aren't. You are naive to think that some politicians act in accordance to their corporate allies or their own self-interests. Transparency in the government is what we need to ensure that they don't do this.

 

[Ryokan]

Politicians ELECTED by the American People are acting in the best interest of the American people...which can sometimes anger leaders and citizens of our allies and enemies.

oh no!! say it ain't so!!

I don't care if it was a document describing a dinner between Hillary and Obama discussing their favorite wine. If it's a CLASSIFIED document, it should remain so.

What if the leaks show that the politicians didn't act in the best interest of the American people, but rather the reverse? Wouldn't you have liked to know? Or are elected politicians allowed to do whatever they want, as long as they're able to keep it secret? If they classify the information about it, does that mean they don't have to be held accountable? Sounds insane to me.

 

[deepatrax]

What if the leaks show that the politicians didn't act in the best interest of the American people, but rather the reverse? Wouldn't you have liked to know? Or are elected politicians allowed to do whatever they want, as long as they're able to keep it secret? If they classify the information about it, does that mean they don't have to be held accountable? Sounds insane to me.

You have to help me out here...

Who gets to decide which information should be classified and which should not?

You?
Assange?
Obama?
Congress?

 

[Oliver]

What a weird thread... What some here are saying basically comes down to this kind of logic:

"American Soldiers put Afghan lives at risk, lets kill the America President" - Right?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/28/wikileaks.attack/index.html?hpt=T1

they are releasing countless secret documents and intellectual property of the United States. they are in possession of stolen goods, which is a crime.

they are releasing classified documentation which they have no right to possess or even see. this is a crime.

I don't know if somehow the USA is responsible for the cyber-attack on Wikileaks, but I would not mind it if we were.

there is a legal way to get government documents, even classified ones from the USA. its called the Freedom of Information Act. it does wonders.

however, Wikileaks chooses to go another route. an illegal one.

and it does appear that their agenda may indeed be to harm the United States and our allies.

they are an enemy of the USA.

I'd advise against attacking wikileaks. The so called Smart Bomb may go stray and destroy conservapedia.

Actually, that might not be that bad.

 

[Ryokan]

You have to help me out here...

Who gets to decide which information should be classified and which should not?

You?
Assange?
Obama?
Congress?

Well, if we land on Obama, it will make things awkward when you guys get a new president..

Congress (or in my case, parliament) gets to decide if things should be classified or not, but once classified it shouldn't be set in stone, and if there's something the public should know then I bloody well hope it gets leaked to the press, whether it's the paper variety or something like Wikileaks.

If you had your choice, you would rather that what governments deem classified would never reach the public ear. We'd never have Watergate. We'd never know about My Lai. We'd never know about Abu Ghraib. Government can do whatever it wants - as long as they keep it secret and label it classified, government never has to be held accountable.

Doesn't sounds much like of the people, by the people and for the people to me.

 

[egslim]

From what I've seen so far, nothing in the release is a "bad" act...it's merely the U.S. acting in it's own best interests.

"acting in it's own best interests", until those actions are made public - then they are suddenly embarassing and dangerous.

By that token there's nothing wrong with murder or paedophilia either: The perpetrator is merely acting in his own best (sexual) interest, and as long as nobody else finds out about it there's no problem.

It seems you and me will have to agree to disagree about what constitutes a "bad" act. But that was already obvious when you advocated murder.

 

[deepatrax]

Well, if we land on Obama, it will make things awkward when you guys get a new president..

Congress (or in my case, parliament) gets to decide if things should be classified or not, but once classified it shouldn't be set in stone, and if there's something the public should know then I bloody well hope it gets leaked to the press, whether it's the paper variety or something like Wikileaks.

If you had your choice, you would rather that what governments deem classified would never reach the public ear. We'd never have Watergate. We'd never know about My Lai. We'd never know about Abu Ghraib. Government can do whatever it wants - as long as they keep it secret and label it classified, government never has to be held accountable.

Doesn't sounds much like of the people, by the people and for the people to me.

ok...maybe we're getting somewhere...

So you believe Congress gets to decide about classified info. That's not always the case in the U.S....many times it's the Executive Branch, but that's not my point.

Congress gets to classify info. good.

Now, you said: "if there's something the public should know "

Who gets to make this determination...that there is something the public should know?

You?
Assange?
Obama?
Parliament?
Congress?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Who gets to make this determination...that there is something the public should know?

The public.

 

[deepatrax]

"acting in it's own best interests", until those actions are made public - then they are suddenly embarassing and dangerous.

By that token there's nothing wrong with murder or paedophilia either: The perpetrator is merely acting in his own best (sexual) interest, and as long as nobody else finds out about it there's no problem.

It seems you and me will have to agree to disagree about what constitutes a "bad" act. But that was already obvious when you advocated murder.

you got me.

I concede your point.

I advocate the killing of people who seek to destroy the U.S., put U.S. lives at risk and threaten our National Security...when they can't be reasoned with after repeated attempts to ask them not to do so.

yes, I do admit...I value the life of an American soldier over that of Julian Assange.

I'm a monster!

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm a monster!

I'm glad you admit it.

 

[egslim]

Congress (or in my case, parliament) gets to decide if things should be classified or not, but once classified it shouldn't be set in stone, and if there's something the public should know then I bloody well hope it gets leaked to the press, whether it's the paper variety or something like Wikileaks.

I don't see an easy solution to this problem.

There's simply too much information for a parliament to decide what should and shouldn't be classified, so many of the decisions are taken by non-transparant bureaucracies.

But the basic problem is that even if we elect people to take those decisions, we have no way to judge their judgements - since those have to remain secret.

I think occasional leaks like this are probably the best way to keep/make the system somewhat healthy.

 

[deepatrax]

The public.

ok...

So the Politicians get elected into positions which allow them to classify information so it doesn't make it into the public domain

And the public then gets to review that classified info...to determine if it should remain classified.

got it...now we're getting somewhere!

When U.S. info, state secrets and military operations are classified, the Government should then post them to a www.USClassifiedInfo.org website for review by the public...and then we can all vote on whether it should remain classified!

*facepalm*

 

[Undesired Walrus]

ok...maybe we're getting somewhere...

So you believe Congress gets to decide about classified info. That's not always the case in the U.S....many times it's the Executive Branch, but that's not my point.

Congress gets to classify info. good.

Now, you said: "if there's something the public should know "

Who gets to make this determination...that there is something the public should know?

You?
Assange?
Obama?
Parliament?
Congress?

You miss something in that post you are responding to.

If something like Watergate was made classified, does that mean it should stay that way?

 

[Ryokan]

Now, you said: "if there's something the public should know "

Who gets to make this determination...that there is something the public should know?

You?
Assange?
Obama?
Parliament?
Congress?

The usual way is that a whistle blower believes it's in the interest of the public to know, and contacts a journalist. If the journalist agrees, he publishes it. Again, it's a very hard question with no easy answer. But the answer certainly isn't 'no one'.

Do you think it's 'no one'? Should the public never been made aware of Watergate, My Lai and Abu Ghraib, since all those incidents involved classified information?

Do you really believe that if government deems something classified, they should be free of accountability? You're good at asking questions, could you answer some? Because your position sounds absurd to me - as mine obviously does to you.

 

[thaiboxerken]

ok...

So the Politicians get elected into positions which allow them to classify information so it doesn't make it into the public domain

And the public then gets to review that classified info...to determine if it should remain classified.

got it...now we're getting somewhere!

When U.S. info, state secrets and military operations are classified, the Government should then post them to a www.USClassifiedInfo.org website for review by the public...and then we can all vote on whether it should remain classified!

*facepalm*

In essence, I don't think ANY information should be secret from the public.

 

[deepatrax]

The usual way is that a whistle blower believes it's in the interest of the public to know, and contacts a journalist. If the journalist agrees, he publishes it. Again, it's a very hard question with no easy answer. But the answer certainly isn't 'no one'.

Do you think it's 'no one'? Should the public never been made aware of Watergate, My Lai and Abu Ghraib, since all those incidents involved classified information?

Do you really believe that if government deems something classified, they should be free of accountability? You're good at asking questions, could you answer some? Because your position sounds absurd to me - as mine obviously does to you.

Let me ask you this then...

If the classified documents show no illegal activities...what then?

Read the recent release and point out the illegalities in them for me.

Sure they reveal how some in the U.S. feel about our allies and our enemies...but that's not illegal.

Sure they reveal the REAL activities of our foreign officers overseas...but that's not illegal...not against U.S. law anyway.

If non-illegal activities are classified for purely National Security reasons and are then released, what then?

just brush it off?

When it could put our National Security at risk?

 

[deepatrax]

In essence, I don't think ANY information should be secret from the public.

When a military unit is preparing an operation against a Taliban stronghold, how should this information be sent out to the public and more importantly, to the Taliban who are about to be ambushed?

Does the Taliban have a right to know?