Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[platonov]

OH... You haven't read Massei. That explains a lot.

So you claim that platonov hasn't read Massei - that has been put to the test already by halides1.

If indeed he hasn't his guesses as regards the contents are very lucky and he has the happy knack of finding the relevant sections when he needs to.
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[Charlie Wilkes]

Thank you Draca. Hendry has several new posts up and all of them are worth reading.

Hendry is really good. I have learned a lot from that guy. His reconstruction of what happened made perfect sense once I understood it, which took me awhile. He also came up with a floor plan for the room that is far better than what the police used. I would encourage people to download the pdf on the IIP site, because the resolution of the images is pretty good.

Be sure to read Hendry's explanation of how the police tossed the bloody boots under the bed and then attributed the resulting bloodstain to staging activity. Nobody else picked up on that, to the best of my knowledge, but it is obvious once you look at the photos.

 

[Mary_H]

So you claim that platonov hasn't read Massei - that has been put to the test already by halides1.

If indeed he hasn't his guesses as regards the contents are lucky and he has the happy knack of finding the relevant sections when he needs to.
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Has platonov ever cited Massei? Not that I can find.

platonov is adept at mirroring other people's posts in ways that only make it look like he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Kaosium]

Excellent, concise, summing-up of the flashing red lights all over the prosecution case. The hard evidence of police misconduct, ranging from negligence to manipulation of the facts, needs to be the starting point in understanding this case - not the tenuous innuendos directed against the 2 accused of assisting the real killer.

Yeah, it didn't fall in place for me until I went back to the interrogation and realized at that point they didn't have the forensics completed and didn't realize there would only be evidence of one person at the scene, and that person would not be named Amanda, Patrick or Raffaele. Then reading the fallout of that in Amanda's note, and the diaries, and it became pretty clear to me that somehow during the course of that interrogation the cops for some reason became convinced of Amanda's complicity and jumped to a tragically erroneous conclusion.

The way they acted on the sixth taking them to the prison suggests an irrational exuberance, those police officers actually believed they had the right people for some reason. I'd love to know what it was, perhaps viewing it might almost excuse some of their subsequent behavior completing the 'investigation' against Raffaele and Amanda, but since they tried to pretend they 'forgot' to tape it, I suppose it must have been awfully revealing of the methods used to obtain that 'confession' when viewed later.

 

[platonov]

Randi's million, Dempsey's circus & the Illuminati

Has platonov ever cited Massei? Not that I can find.

platonov is adept at mirroring other people's posts in ways that only make it look like he knows what he is talking about.

I believe he has quoted actual sections from Massei - either he has seen the doc or is possessed with a skill for precise prediction that would startle Randi.

You seem to think the ability to point out the errors of logic & fact in most of the innocentsi arguments is an esoteric skill available only to the initiated - let me assure you its not that difficult

ETA I see Dempsey's circus parade is back in town & taking the usual circuitous routes.

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[Fine]

Another Gross Misinterpretation?

'A gross misinterpretation of the blood evidence by the Scientific Police'
By Ron Hendry

______________________________________________
Quote [from Hendry]:
The Scientific Police subsequently determined that this was important blood evidence that had been intentionally hidden by Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. Photos and analysis of these blood drippings were included in a report prepared for the prosecutor and the Court. The photos of the blood dripping area and the police interpretation of what they meant were also included in the large Scientific Police crime scene exhibit, ostensibly produced for the jury’s consideration at the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

________________________________________________


Documented proof from Forensic Engineer Ron Hendry that a mistake the Flying Squad made through complete disrespect for the crime scene was presented to the jury as evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. It was claimed to show the crime scene was staged. If this information was used as part of the reason to convict them it gives very strong reason that all the evidence in the case should be reviewed.


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry11.html

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=171828869508259&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034

_____________________

I think Hendry got this wrong. (See first LINK, above.) Reading the Italian caption to the respective photographs (in the Scientific Report) shows the cops found these blood traces to be evidence that some articles in Meredith's room had been moved or removed, ....NOT that Amanda and Raffaele were trying to hide blood evidence (which would be stupid). Maybe someone fluent in Italian will clarify this matter.

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[Mary_H]

I believe he has quoted actual sections from Massei - either he has seen the doc or is possessed with a skill for precise prediction that would startle Randi.

I believe otherwise. Writing "see Massei" does not count as a citation, and it certainly doesn't count as a quote. No predictions are necessary -- there are plenty of other people's quotes available here for platonov to riff on.

You seem to think the ability to point out the errors of logic & fact in most of the innocentsi arguments is an esoteric skill available only to the initiated - let me assure you its not that difficult

Pointing out the errors of logic and fact in Massei is certainly an esoteric skill available only to the initiated. As for pointing out the errors of logic and fact in most of the innocentisti arguments in general, please have platonov let us know when that's going to start.

 

[platonov]

Seeing is believing ? What would Thomas do.

I believe otherwise. Writing "see Massei" does not count as a citation, and it certainly doesn't count as a quote. No predictions are necessary -- there are plenty of other people's quotes available here for platonov to riff on.

<snip>

What you 'believe' and what platonov believes are certainly not the same, on many issues, as we have already seen

But you appear to have misinterpreted his post yet again - the clue is in the word 'quoted'.

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[Mary_H]

What you 'believe' and what platonov believes are certainly not the same, on many issues, as we have already seen

How true.

But you appear to have misinterpreted his post yet again - the clue is in the word 'quoted'.

If I have misinterpreted the sentence below, perhaps it is because platonov is using a unique meaning for the word "quoted," different from the meaning I am familiar with?

"I believe he has quoted actual sections from Massei"

 

[Justinian2]

Libelous Newspaper Headlines

I'm astounded at how major newspapers can print headlines that are probably libelous. Take, for example, this headline from the New Zeland Herald:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10690102&ref=rss

Convicted killer Knox faces months of appeal hearings
This headline states that Knox is a convicted killer; not a woman convicted of killing a friend.

Other headlines that were written more correctly were:

Amanda Knox begins murder conviction appeal in Italy. This is correct because it doesn't say that Amanda Knox is a killer, just that she was convicted of killing her friend.

Student appeals sex-killing verdict This is semi-correct in that it suggests that a student is apealing a verdict, not that Amanda was guilty of killing anyone. It still is incorrect in that it falsely assumes the verdict was for a 'sex-killing' when, in fact, NO motivation was given for the killing by the Massei report [I believe].

With the appeal, more and more newspapers are getting the headlines correct. Now they write that Amanda was Convicted and appealing rather than the incorrect headline that reads something like The Killer is Appealing her conviction

 

[platonov]

Seek and Ye shall find

<snip>

If I have misinterpreted the sentence below, perhaps it is because platonov is using a unique meaning for the word "quoted," different from the meaning I am familiar with?

Originally Posted by platonov

"I believe he has quoted actual sections from Massei"

Try page 426 - Seek and Ye shall find.

A good example of debate on this thread - you jump in with an [unnecessary] obviously false & easily checked claim.
Then when its disputed [& in a lighthearted manner], instead of looking for the [recent] evidence you insist over several posts that you are right, and now that I don't understand what the word quoted means.
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[Chris_Halkides]

AP link

Above where, and where is this article by Elio Clero Bertoldi?

The link is in message #17301, and now it is here also. I never said anything about an article.

 

[Mary_H]

Try page 426 - Seek and Ye shall find.

A good example of debate on this thread - you jump in with an obviously false & easily checked claim.
Then when its disputed, instead of looking for the [recent] evidence you insist over several posts that you are right, and now that I don't understand what the word quoted means.

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Ah, this post -- now I see: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6591630&postcount=17038 Although why you couldn't just provide the link instead of dropping hints like, "the password is quote," I don't know.

My claim was not "obviously false and easily checked." It is customary, when citing a source, to name the source. There is no mention of Massei's name in your post. Forgive me if I don't commit every post to memory, and rely on the thread search instead.

This exchange does not establish that I have a tendency to "insist over several posts" that I am right in the face of valid objections. Your first, second and third responses offered no useful information whatsoever. Now that you have actually disputed my claim, I can concede in good faith that you have cited Massei twice. It would not have taken so long without your interference.

 

[platonov]

_____________________

I think Hendry got this wrong. (See first LINK, above.) Reading the Italian caption to the respective photographs (in the Scientific Report) shows the cops found these blood traces to be evidence that some articles in Meredith's room had been moved or removed, ....NOT that Amanda and Raffaele were trying to hide blood evidence (which would be stupid). Maybe someone fluent in Italian will clarify this matter.

///

Hendry's 1st piece on the broken window should tell you all you need to know about his work.

For example - one of his longer 'analysis' on this deals with the notion that the rock was thrown from inside - out. Its reminiscent of the 'perplexity' on this thread around page 100 ? & 170.

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[platonov]

John 14:15-24

Ah, this post -- now I see: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6591630&postcount=17038 Although why you couldn't just provide the link instead of dropping hints like, "the password is quote," I don't know.

My claim was not "obviously false and easily checked." It is customary, when citing a source, to name the source. There is no mention of Massei's name in your post. Forgive me if I don't commit every post to memory, and rely on the thread search instead.

This exchange does not establish that I have a tendency to "insist over several posts" that I am right in the face of valid objections. Your first, second and third responses offered no useful information whatsoever. Now that you have actually disputed my claim, I can concede in good faith that you have cited Massei twice. It would not have taken so long without your interference.

So now its my fault - you make a false claim and I am interfering.

Perhaps before you contradict platonov in future a little more research would be advisable

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[Mary_H]

So now its my fault - you make a false claim and I am interfering.

Perhaps before you contradict platonov in future a little more research would be advisable

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If I could use my psychic powers to determine the contents of posts that do not provide the sources for citations, then I would be eligible for Randi's million.

 

[platonov]

If I could use my psychic powers to determine the contents of posts that do not provide the sources for citations, then I would be eligible for Randi's million.

Reading the thread/posts and understanding the context should suffice - Randi wouldn't pay as this ability is [erroneously ?] assumed.
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[Justinian2]

'Wood Pusher' is a name applied to novice chess players. It describes the tendency of a novice to just make a move rather than think about the rammifications of that move.

That tendency is particularly prominent in the guilters - more so than with the defenders. Many just make an accusation and assume it has value. Many assume that any decision made by a modern democracy can be defended.

 

[LashL]

It is inappropriate to make accusations of sockpuppetry/account sharing in a thread. Instead, if you think that someone is breaching Rule 7, just report it to the Mod Team.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

 

[odeed]

odeed,

The text below is the shotlist from the AP archives footage. You will need to register with this site to see it. This link also has footage of all of them on foot and the three cars pulling away.

"SHOTLIST
SKY - No access UK, RTE, CNNi
November 6, 2007
1. Pull out of Raffaele Sollecito, Italian citizen (covered face with jacket) leaving the police station
2. Amanda Marie Knox, US citizen and girlfriend of Sollecito (face covered with hat) leaving the police station
3. Lumumba "Patrick" Diya, Congolese citizen leaving the police station
4. Police vehicles driving suspects away in the murder of British student Meredith Kercher"

Knox and Sollecito went to the station on their own, unlike Lumumba. When could they possibly have been taken to the station?

The police in the video looked reserved with no sign of jubilation, celebration, or smiles on their face, they even take a moment to make sure Knox face is covered from photographers as she is lead out. The cars leaving (one for each suspect, which is not a surprised), have their windows rolled up as they make their way out of the station through the photographers outside.

moodstream,

I am unaware of anything she got wrong about the parade (BTW I may have been the first person to call it that, but it is a handy tag). See my previous post and my next one.

Except for the celebration, and heading up the hill to "parade" the three around old town Perugia.

It's hypocritical of you to accuse the police of confirmation bias and tunnel vision from this, when yourself have repeated this piece of hyperbole (at best, fabrication at the worst) without evidence and even gone as far try to twist quotes from news articles.

platonov,

A commenter would lose credibility with me if he or she quoted a passage from a source that misled the reader into thinking that the whole essay or article said something other than its true intent. He or she would also lose credibility by bolding or highlighting a passage and ignoring what came just before or after. You wrote today, “Oh you mean after I called you on the selective quotation…” Let’s look to see who is being selective.

You should take a look in the mirror when you accuse others of misleading readers or twist quotes.