Merged H1N1 Flu Vaccine and "miscarriages"

[Andy_Ross]

trusetheeker! oops sory about that, looks like a typo lol.

 

[Emet]

trusetheeker! oops sory about that, looks like a typo lol.

See the comment of November 17, 2010 here.

ETA: Everyone knows Google is your friend, especially with the addition of quotation marks. (sometimes you get a hit or two)

 

[Estellea]

See the comment of November 17, 2010 here.

ETA: Everyone knows Google is your friend, especially with the addition of quotation marks. (sometimes you get a hit or two)

Good find Emet and I guarantee there are numerous pseudonyms as well. Loved the 'supporting' evidence; hallmark of a pseudo-intellect.

Este

 

[Lucian]

I had mine a couple of weeks ago, free on the NHS, simply because my elderly mother lives with me and they'd really prefer (a) I didn't bring anything home to her even though she's vaccinated too, and (b) I didn't get sick and leave them with an elderly lady to find care for.

Rolfe.

Since we know that anecdotal evidence is the only kind that really matters (*********** graphs, how do they work?), can you tell us if any of the following have happened since you got the shot: have you died, miscarried, become autistic, grown an extra head or become a subservient slave to the Illuminati?

 

[Hellbound]

Since we know that anecdotal evidence is the only kind that really matters (*********** graphs, how do they work?), can you tell us if any of the following have happened since you got the shot: have you died, miscarried, become autistic, grown an extra head or become a subservient slave to the Illuminati?

It turned her into a Newt!

 

[Emet]

Since we know that anecdotal evidence is the only kind that really matters (*********** graphs, how do they work?), can you tell us if any of the following have happened since you got the shot: have you died, miscarried, become autistic, grown an extra head or become a subservient slave to the Illuminati?

While the question wasn't directed at me, I'd like to relate my experience. They told me the wait would be 10 minutes, but it was 20. I think they manipulated the space-time continuum--it felt like an hour. Why the delay? What were they planning to do to me?

In the US, there is usually a short form of standardized questions to answer--but I don't recall ever seeing the question, "Are you prone to fainting?" Hmmm... I wasn't sure whether I should answer honestly--what might they do to me or give me, depending on my answer. I answered honestly: no. I wonder what they did because of my answer.

I always watch injections, but I barely felt it. Did they fake it to make more money?

Finally, the band-aid they placed on my arm was not ouch-less. Are they using a different adhesive? Why?

For those that celebrate T-Day, have a nice time.
(make sure the gravy is mercury free)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Since we know that anecdotal evidence is the only kind that really matters (*********** graphs, how do they work?), can you tell us if any of the following have happened since you got the shot: have you died, miscarried, become autistic, grown an extra head or become a subservient slave to the Illuminati?

In 20 years of giving over 1,000 flu vaccinations a year, over 1,000 hep B vaccinations a year, a few MMRs and a couple hundred Tds and Tdaps, I've had exactly 5 people contact me to tell me they had a reaction of some kind. (And I see the same people every year so it's not that people with reactions wouldn't have contacted me.)

One person got a painful arm that lasted a couple months (resolved eventually and he still gets flu shots)
One person turned out to have an allergy to Thimerosal, not figured out until the second reaction. I've given him 2 thimerosal free flu shots since and he was fine.
One person who reacted to their Tdap with a red swollen shoulder went to the ED thinking it was cellulitis. But he had no systemic symptoms like fever one sees with cellulitis. It was most likely just a tetanus or pertussis vaccine swelling and not a serious problem.
One person who called me to tell me she thought I should know she got a very large bruise from her flu shot.
One person who had a panic attack after a flu shot. Nothing more happened after an hour and she calmed down.

And that's it in 20 years. Estimated total sample size for flu shots, between 22,000 and 25,000 doses administered. For hep B doses, about 20,000 total. For Td's ~700 doses, Tdaps ~ 100 doses, MMRs ~ 200 doses.


The above data excludes fainting events after shots. I see a couple of those a year.

 

[Lucian]

In 20 years of giving over 1,000 flu vaccinations a year, over 1,000 hep B vaccinations a year, a few MMRs and a couple hundred Tds and Tdaps, I've had exactly 5 people contact me to tell me they had a reaction of some kind. (And I see the same people every year so it's not that people with reactions wouldn't have contacted me.)

One person got a painful arm that lasted a couple months (resolved eventually and he still gets flu shots)
One person turned out to have an allergy to Thimerosal, not figured out until the second reaction. I've given him 2 thimerosal free flu shots since and he was fine.
One person who reacted to their Tdap with a red swollen shoulder went to the ED thinking it was cellulitis. But he had no systemic symptoms like fever one sees with cellulitis. It was most likely just a tetanus or pertussis vaccine swelling and not a serious problem.
One person who called me to tell me she thought I should know she got a very large bruise from her flu shot.
One person who had a panic attack after a flu shot. Nothing more happened after an hour and she calmed down.

And that's it in 20 years. Estimated total sample size for flu shots, between 22,000 and 25,000 doses administered. For hep B doses, about 20,000 total. For Td's ~700 doses, Tdaps ~ 100 doses, MMRs ~ 200 doses.


The above data excludes fainting events after shots. I see a couple of those a year.

Important information and good to know, but you know I was kidding, right?

And Hellbound, I can't believe I forgot Transient Newtism!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Important information and good to know, but you know I was kidding, right?
...

Of course, I understood you were being sarcastic.

I was merely adding actual anecdotal evidence that had some evidentiary value.

 

[Lucian]

Of course, I understood you were being sarcastic.

I was merely adding actual anecdotal evidence that had some evidentiary value.

Just checking.

 

[zooterkin]

I had mine a couple of weeks ago, free on the NHS, simply because my elderly mother lives with me and they'd really prefer (a) I didn't bring anything home to her even though she's vaccinated too, and (b) I didn't get sick and leave them with an elderly lady to find care for.

Yes, my other half did the same, for much the same reasons (though she visits her mother regularly, rather than lives with her). I probably wouldn't have bothered having one myself as I think I've only had flu once in my life, but it was free and convenient to do so. My firm started offering the vaccinations last year, I presume because it makes commercial sense to do so.

 

[Rolfe]

We usually get told at work to go to our doctor and get one, with a letter they give us to say we work with poultry (or might do, sometimes), so we should be done under the NHS public health provisions. Last year (for the one and only time) the letters came out early enough and I got two boxes ticked on my form ("carer" and "poultry worker") explaining why I was getting a free jag even though I'm not otherwise in any special risk group (elderly, diabetic, asthma and so on).

Mostly though the letters get sent out so late people have either had the jag already for some other reason, or just ignore it.

Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

We pay for ourselves and any staff who want the jabs. I have my family done.

We can't get enough of that mutant alien DNA and secret biowarfare nanotech.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Of course, I understood you were being sarcastic.

I was merely adding actual anecdotal evidence that had some evidentiary value.

An anonymous person on the Internet claiming to be in the medical field and providing an anecdote that is nothing more than her recall over a period of years of patients of their own volition following up is not much value. If the same story were shared by someone claiming some serious adverse reactions, it would be dismissed for what it is.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Me and my kids got the flu shot on November 2, 2010. None of us has autism still, none of us are suddenly sprouting new heads. Instead, none of us have gotten sick with the flu.
My boyfriend asked why I bothered when it doesn't stop you from getting colds. I told him colds don't generally kill as many people as the flu does.

 

[trusetheeker]

Well, it seems that I've made a few friends in this forum already so will stop while I've still got a head. I would have gotten a warmer reception shouting "Atheist" at an Evangelists meeting!

There is something of a religious feel to the pro-vaccine crowd and some of you have really lost any sense of proportion. Still if you believe that someone rocking the boat could cause you all to drown, it's understandable that you would panic.

As I'm not a scientist or doctor, I won't be conducting any independent lab tests or studies directly from medical records and as everything that I will be able to post in support of my opinion will be viewed as woo (whether it is or not) then I won't bother. You're all more than capable of researching the opposing positions for yourself even if you might not be capable of reading past your ingrained beliefs and prejudices.

Whatever you do, don't go back to my original reason for posting which was to raise the point about the witchhunt against Dr. Wakefield. It might confuse you to find out that his research was backed up by independent tests and considering that he was pro-vaccine, you'll really be in a dilemma as to why one of your own was run out of town.

IMO, the safety and efficacy of vaccinations should be an open debate in the community at large and the fear campaign from the pro-vaccine side is not healthy.

In closing, I am not any of these: homeopath, naturopath, chiropractor, osteopath, etc. The only profit that I make from my research and discussion of health topics is the greater health and physical wellbeing that I've enjoyed since discovering Natural Hygiene plus any satisfaction from knowing that I may have led someone else onto a healthier path.

You can win all the battles but that doesn't necessarily mean that you will win the war!


Trusetheeker (no relation to your Truthseeker and I didn't know you had a member by that name)

PS: Thanks to the questions that many of you posed, I did increase my knowledge in many ways. So definitely not a waste of my time!

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Total BS. Us showing and demonstrating that vaccines actually prevent miscarriages is the opposite of the fear campaign that you spreading. You have not demonstrated anything that supports your campaign of fear. I find your charges very hypocritical, and that you are very unwilling to learn.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

An anonymous person on the Internet claiming to be in the medical field and providing an anecdote that is nothing more than her recall over a period of years of patients of their own volition following up is not much value. If the same story were shared by someone claiming some serious adverse reactions, it would be dismissed for what it is.

This is your imaginary evidence. I'll take my chances with the forum members who know me better than that and don't carry a grudge from thread to thread.

 

[Emet]

Well, it seems that I've made a few friends in this forum already so will stop while I've still got a head. I would have gotten a warmer reception shouting "Atheist" at an Evangelists meeting!

Since you posted in SMM&T, you would have received a warmer welcome if you had posted, you know, credible scientific evidence to support your claim.

There is something of a religious feel to the pro-vaccine crowd and some of you have really lost any sense of proportion. Still if you believe that someone rocking the boat could cause you all to drown, it's understandable that you would panic.

Doesn't feel religious to me, but I'm no expert in religious feeling. I'm a mere scientist.

Funny, you seem to have some sort of psychic ability to judge how others are feeling. Are you projecting?

As I'm not a scientist or doctor, I won't be conducting any independent lab tests or studies directly from medical records and as everything that I will be able to post in support of my opinion will be viewed as woo (whether it is or not) then I won't bother. You're all more than capable of researching the opposing positions for yourself even if you might not be capable of reading past your ingrained beliefs and prejudices.

You really don't get it, do you? It's about science and the scientific method.

Whatever you do, don't go back to my original reason for posting which was to raise the point about the witchhunt against Dr. Wakefield. It might confuse you to find out that his research was backed up by independent tests and considering that he was pro-vaccine, you'll really be in a dilemma as to why one of your own was run out of town.

Who is Dr. Wakefield, and who is hunting him? I see no mention of him in this thread--certainly not in your OP. Is it this guy?

IMO, the safety and efficacy of vaccinations should be an open debate in the community at large and the fear campaign from the pro-vaccine side is not healthy.

The fear campaign comes from the anti-vaccine side. I've read many of their web sites--no science, just, "Danger, Will Robinson".

In closing, I am not any of these: homeopath, naturopath, chiropractor, osteopath, etc. The only profit that I make from my research and discussion of health topics is the greater health and physical wellbeing that I've enjoyed since discovering Natural Hygiene plus any satisfaction from knowing that I may have led someone else onto a healthier path.

Does that involve a shower with water, only? Or perhaps some hygienic, natural soap?

You can win all the battles but that doesn't necessarily mean that you will win the war!

Huh?

Trusetheeker (no relation to your Truthseeker and I didn't know you had a member by that name)

PS: Thanks to the questions that many of you posed, I did increase my knowledge in many ways. So definitely not a waste of my time!

I'm certainly glad "that questions posed" increased your knowledge in "many ways". (whatever that means)

Have a nice day. Good luck with this war of yours.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

So, trusetheeker, it seems you are going to run away without commenting on the graphs of morbidity from various infections and their relationship to the introduction of vaccines.

You seem curiously resistant to challenging your beliefs by testing them against actual evidence. Why is that?