Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Katody Matrass]

On the eve of the APPEAL trial, I'll provide an argument that doesn't even show up in the APPEAL document for Amanda Knox.

There's reason to believe that the jury in the first trial had a false opinion about a matter of major significance. Mixed blood supposedly found at the cottage.

As a matter of fact, there was no mixed blood found. Yes, Amanda's DNA was found in samples of Meredith's blood. And a drop of Amanda's blood was found on the faucet to the bathroom sink. But there was no sample found which was shown to contain the blood of both.

In the Massei MOTIVATIONS report--- published three months after the verdict--- there's no mention of mixed blood. And yet, when the jury convicted Amanda in December, it appears that the jury believed mixed blood had been discovered. Permit me to quote from Barbie:

"The defense's biggest mistake, according to interviews with jurors after the trial, was doing nothing to refute the mixed-blood evidence beyond noting that it is common to find mingled DNA when two people live in the same house. The jurors needed more than that. 'To have mixed blood, you have to both be bleeding,' one of them remarked to me after the verdict.' " (Angel Face, pages 152)

If the jurors---or some of the jurors--- really did believe that mixed blood had been found, and if---as Barbie illustrates---the jurors considered this to be of considerable significance, and if I were one of the defense team, I'd be interviewing those jurors. The best witnesses for Amanda during her second trial may prove to be the jurors who convicted her during her first trial.

///

Hi, Fine, I think you made a valid point.

In a trial that dragged for a year, there was no way for the jurors to keep all of the facts straight. I bet none of the jurors had as in-depth knowledge as most of the internet "enthusiasts" on both sides have now.

Before the trial even started, the public, jury included, was bombarded with misinformation for a year. If you search the news, you'll see that the "mixed blood" was not introduced during the trial but much earlier, as well as other pieces of misinformation.

 

[Kaosium]

Chris, I really don't know what to make of the car. At the end of the day, what does that have to do with the evidencence?

What bothers me, is the LACK of evidence. None in Meredith's room.

AND, NONE IN AMANDA'S ROOM.!!!!!!!

What does that MEAN???????? She showered there (Yikes,, the cops lied about the odour)..went into her room, lived there, fer christskes.......

Bt the way, Meredith was her friend...You're going to tell me she never stepped into her FRIEND'S ROOM?

Remember, they only find what they're looking for and what they test for. They weren't looking for evidence of Amanda in Amanda's room--they were looking for Meredith's blood or other evidence of murder.

As for Meredith's room they couldn't find any trace of Amanda at all, which might mean Amanda never did go into Meredith's room. Or it might mean if she did then she left no trace near the murder scene, and they never found it. At any rate the fact they could find nothing near the murder scene and went to the extreme of the bra clasp to try and put Raffaele there strongly suggests nothing could be found of either at the murder site.

Which is why the prosecution tried so hard to pretend there was a 'clean-up' despite the forensics showing there couldn't have been one (outside Rudy's cursory cleaning outside the room) and seeded the press with imaginary bleach receipts and other stories.

 

[Alt+F4]

Now, more than 20 years after Lindy Chamberlain was released, Australians accept that prosecuting her was a tragic mistake.

And...Australia survived! There are dozens of explainations thrown out there why AK and RS were convicted despite the lie that there is "zero evidence". One of those reasons is that Perugia law enforcement can't handle the embarrassment of having charged then convicted the wrong people. Ridiculous.

 

[Chris C]

And...Australia survived! There are dozens of explainations thrown out there why AK and RS were convicted despite the lie that there is "zero evidence". One of those reasons is that Perugia law enforcement can't handle the embarrassment of having charged then convicted the wrong people. Ridiculous.

Yeah, except wasn't it the police that said case closed with no evidence?

 

[daydreamer]

Rudy gained a lot by accusing Amanda and Raffaele.

Does anyone know: If Amanda and Raffaele are found not guilty, can they charge Rudy with slander and get his sentence increased?

ETA: Sorry, looks like Chris C has already asked this.

 

[Chris C]

Does anyone know: If Amanda and Raffaele are found not guilty, can they charge Rudy with slander and get his sentence increased?

Im not for sure he actually gave a 100 percent positive identification of them. I believe his comments where, looked like sollecito or shaped like knox.

 

[Chris C]

Now if we could get that guy that might have raped Meredith to come forward and press slander charges against Rudy, we could get the Rudy confession added into the defense appeal.

 

[Kaosium]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...f-Meredith-Kercher.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=Features

This article does not cast expert opinion in a favourable light.

EDIT: Even Nick Pisa has now changed his mind.

I didn't see anything about Pisa there. Did I miss it?

I found an interesting quote in this story, yet another book about the case, another one in Italian:


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/24/earlyshow/main7085694.shtml

An Italian journalist, meanwhile, has come out in defence of Knox and Sollecito.

Maria d'Elia says her just-published book, "The Other Truth on the Perugia Murder," refutes some of the main points in the prosecution's case.

"I try to explain that there is no evidence of Amanda and Rafaelle's guilt," she tells CBS News," the importance for the court to review all evidence... and to hear new witnesses."

 

[moodstream]

Chis C: Please don't provide a link. I want to read what YOU make of it!! With your brilliance and all.

Morning, Mary. I know you will welcome me back Riight.......Riight?????

This post is rude.

 

[Kaosium]

And...Australia survived! There are dozens of explainations thrown out there why AK and RS were convicted despite the lie that there is "zero evidence".

Ah! You know of evidence, please tell. What do you believe is evidence of Amanda and Raffaele's participation in the murder?

 

[RoseMontague]

And...Australia survived! There are dozens of explainations thrown out there why AK and RS were convicted despite the lie that there is "zero evidence". One of those reasons is that Perugia law enforcement can't handle the embarrassment of having charged then convicted the wrong people. Ridiculous.

I will agree with you on this one. It is ridiculous to think that law enforcement, prosecutors and/or a court of law would sanction and encourage such a thing. It is also ridiculous that they would accept Quantaville's and Curatolo's testimony as reliable. Or even consider Stefanoni's invented method of LCN DNA testing as sound scientific evidence of guilt. Or invent the large bag and kitchen knife for protection theory. Or conclude manga comics, pot, and a desire for some group sex game as a motive.

There are many ridiculous things about this case. I guess it is sometimes a choice between which theories are more ridiculous than others.

 

[TomCH]

What happened at the hearing? The CNN story doesn't say.

Bongiorno's pregnant, and asked for a delay.

Hellmann said that because Sollecito had two lawyers, the process could continue anyway, but to be a nice guy, he granted a delay until 11 December.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_...lo_86053f00-f7bb-11df-9137-00144f02aabc.shtml

So, in other words, the defense strategy is to delay. Doesn't sound like they have much hope.

 

[Chris C]

Bongiorno's pregnant, and asked for a delay.

Hellmann said that because Sollecito had two lawyers, the process could continue anyway, but to be a nice guy, he granted a delay until 11 December.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_...lo_86053f00-f7bb-11df-9137-00144f02aabc.shtml

So, in other words, the defense strategy is to delay. Doesn't sound like they have much hope.

Not much hope because one of Sollecito's lawyers, who is getting paid money to represent Sollecito, wants to have her baby before starting the trial? If the pregnancy is the reason for the delay why would you assume its only because they have no hope of winning? Seriously do you think the poor mother who is in her final days of pregnancy should be standing in court? I seriously doubt the prosecution wants her there either. A pregnant woman will pull some sympathy from the judge, whether you want to believe that would happen or not.

 

[Alt+F4]

I will agree with you on this one. It is ridiculous to think that law enforcement, prosecutors and/or a court of law would sanction and encourage such a thing. It is also ridiculous that they would accept Quantaville's and Curatolo's testimony as reliable. Or even consider Stefanoni's invented method of LCN DNA testing as sound scientific evidence of guilt. Or invent the large bag and kitchen knife for protection theory. Or conclude manga comics, pot, and a desire for some group sex game as a motive.

There are many ridiculous things about this case. I guess it is sometimes a choice between which theories are more ridiculous than others.

You're suggesting collusion between everyone involved in the prosecutor's office, the postal police, and the scientific police. All these people are willing to risk their carreers just because a cop made an incorrect statement. This makes no sense.

I've yet to hear a coherent argument as to why AK and RS were convicted when we are constantly being told there was no evidence. The leading contenders are:
1. planted evidence
2. corrupt cops
3. corrupt prosecutors
4. corrupt jury
5. incompetent jury
6. anti-Americanism
7. post-fascist brainwashing
8. poor investigative techniques

 

[Justinian2]

I don't respect your convictions.

To answer my own question with your own words, you will probably say your sons have empathy, maturity, intelligence, and that they are caring, loving, empathetic, sympathetic men.

Well, I think Amanda has same qualities that you listed above, plus some more.

One difference is that my viewpoint starts with certainty of innocence while yours starts with probability of guilt.

 

[Chris C]

You're suggesting collusion between everyone involved in the prosecutor's office, the postal police, and the scientific police. All these people are willing to risk their carreers just because a cop made an incorrect statement. This makes no sense.

I've yet to hear a coherent argument as to why AK and RS were convicted when we are constantly being told there was no evidence. The leading contenders are:
1. planted evidence
2. corrupt cops
3. corrupt prosecutors
4. corrupt jury
5. incompetent jury
6. anti-Americanism
7. post-fascist brainwashing
8. poor investigative techniques

Quantaville's and Curatolo both gave testimonies that are either disputed by evidence or disputed by MULTIPLE witnesses.

What evidence was given to the defense or court that proves the tests on DNA where performed or performed correctly?

Prosecutions TOD is epic fail.

The (non suspect) interrogation turned out to be a complete failure and Mignini had to violate the defendents rights to even get it admitted into court.

Prosecutor is corrupt or have you forgotten about his conviction.

 

[daydreamer]

Yep thats a really bad angle to see Meredith's room also or Amanda's room. Plus why would he sit on the toilet furthest away from meredith's room if he was there with meredith. Why would the prosecution and judge allow testimony that was clearly a line of BS.

Plus he took that crap before meredith was murdered. That everyone can be positive of. Anyone that was there with Knox/Sollecito would obviously have the manners to flush the toilet in someones house that they where invited in. Which means either an assault occured while he was sitting on the toilet and he got up without flushing or he was the one that did the assault.
Clearly Knox/Sollecito didn't invite him in.

Edited

My view is that he intentionally did not flush. Meredith came home while he was on the throne and his first instinct was to bolt for the front door. So he waited until she went into her room, making as little noise as possible (no flush) he went to exit through the front door and found that he needed a key to get out. She probably heard the noise at the front door and went to see who it was. Now Rudy was trapped, identified, and panicked. Then the assult began.

 

[RoseMontague]

You're suggesting collusion between everyone involved in the prosecutor's office, the postal police, and the scientific police. All these people are willing to risk their carreers just because a cop made an incorrect statement. This makes no sense.

I've yet to hear a coherent argument as to why AK and RS were convicted when we are constantly being told there was no evidence. The leading contenders are:
1. planted evidence
2. corrupt cops
3. corrupt prosecutors
4. corrupt jury
5. incompetent jury
6. anti-Americanism
7. post-fascist brainwashing
8. poor investigative techniques

I never said there was no evidence. There is plenty of evidence some reliable, some not, and most open to interpretation. The evidence does not prove the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele. I would not put number 7 on a list and I would add confirmation bias, saving face, and stubbornly clinging to an initial theory and doing everything possible to confirm that theory to the list. I would also add a media campaign encouraged by the police, cherry picking of evidence, and leaps of faith in the courts reasoning as well. Also ignoring expert testimony unless it was in favor of the prosecution, favoritism, and revenge on any who dare question the great Mignini, add them to his enemies list. Even Machiavelli admits this head cuffing is almost a cultural thing so lets add coerced interrogations as well. Denial of legal rights, withholding and delay of discovery, the list could go on and on.

 

[Alt+F4]

Quantaville's and Curatolo both gave testimonies that are either disputed by evidence or disputed by MULTIPLE witnesses.

Witnesses lied? Is that why they were convicted?

What evidence was given to the defense or court that proves the tests on DNA where performed or performed correctly?

Incompetent investigators? Is that why they were convicted?

Prosecutions TOD is epic fail.

The (non suspect) interrogation turned out to be a complete failure and Mignini had to violate the defendents rights to even get it admitted into court.

Prosecutor is corrupt or have you forgotten about his conviction.

Corrupt prosecution? Is that why they were convicted.

Maybe it would be easier to come up with list of people in Perugia who haven't lied, planted evidence or performed professional misconduct in this case.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Bongiorno's pregnant, and asked for a delay.

Hellmann said that because Sollecito had two lawyers, the process could continue anyway, but to be a nice guy, he granted a delay until 11 December.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_...lo_86053f00-f7bb-11df-9137-00144f02aabc.shtml

So, in other words, the defense strategy is to delay. Doesn't sound like they have much hope.

Interesting, so you think her parenthood was planned as a part of obstructive strategy ?

Could you explain what you think they would gain by delaying? If they didn't believe in success in Perugia wouldn't a better strategy be to get to the Supreme Court (and then possibly Strasbourg) as quick as possible?