Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Yes, Chris, I do. Curt was constantly ( tears welled up here, umm, not for the loss of Meredith, but for his MORTGAGE).. Yep, fundraisers will be of the utmost importance. Be realistic, sweetie. 3 MONTHS in Italy? Rent, Pasta, ....c'mon.

Or, What employment has Curt been in? Since leaving Nordstrom/ 2 years ago?

Well, the last I heard, he was asking for a handout at a golfing tourney. I could be wrong, of course. Where the hell is * THE DONALD*?

Man, Daddy Warbucks was supposed to cough up the dough. Oh, and where's Kelly?

What's going on? I want the aggie. I want the juice. Don't ya know? I want the facts.

Not turnip juice, not maybe, not child killers.

The real deal. The $$$. To make this happen. Because, it seems that is what it will take.

Londonjohn is going to offer his expertise, Kevin as well. Knock 'em dead, guys.

Amanda CANNOT lose..Jeeze, with what you guys have, the Prosecution should just fold like a cheap suitcase. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
treehorn said:
Accepted. You know, I think you're alright, Mary. (Even if you're just being sarcastic here.)

I hope you'll start to take it easy on me - I'm really not "agenda-driven" and I'm far from a "know it all" about the case.

I'm really just here to see what I can learn - I believe there are one or two interesting ideas being explored here and I just want to see where they lead.
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Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic. I kind of regretted my comment from the start. It was unnecessary, and I am sorry I posted it.

I will take it easy on you as long as you make a good faith effort to explore interesting ideas, and STOP SAYING AMANDA WAS CONVICTED OF ANYTHING IN SEATTLE MUNICIPAL COURT. Otherwise, you're fair game. :p
 
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capealadin said:
Yes, Chris, I do. Curt was constantly ( tears welled up here, umm, not for the loss of Meredith, but for his MORTGAGE).. Yep, fundraisers will be of the utmost importance. Be realistic, sweetie. 3 MONTHS in Italy? Rent, Pasta, ....c'mon.

Or, What employment has Curt been in? Since leaving Nordstrom/ 2 years ago?

Well, the last I heard, he was asking for a handout at a golfing tourney. I could be wrong, of course. Where the hell is * THE DONALD*?

Man, Daddy Warbucks was supposed to cough up the dough. Oh, and where's Kelly?

What's going on? I want the aggie. I want the juice. Don't ya know? I want the facts.

Not turnip juice, not maybe, not child killers.

The real deal. The $$$. To make this happen. Because, it seems that is what it will take.

Londonjohn is going to offer his expertise, Kevin as well. Knock 'em dead, guys.

Amanda CANNOT lose..Jeeze, with what you guys have, the Prosecution should just fold like a cheap suitcase. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I agree. The prosecution should just pack camp and let them go home from the unjust incarceration that has been inflicted upon them. I mean, don't you find it odd that a devout catholic prosecutor would consult with a medium and then accuse someone else of performing satanic rites?
 
capealadin said:
Yes, Chris, I do. Curt was constantly ( tears welled up here, umm, not for the loss of Meredith, but for his MORTGAGE).. Yep, fundraisers will be of the utmost importance. Be realistic, sweetie. 3 MONTHS in Italy? Rent, Pasta, ....c'mon.

Or, What employment has Curt been in? Since leaving Nordstrom/ 2 years ago?

Well, the last I heard, he was asking for a handout at a golfing tourney. I could be wrong, of course. Where the hell is * THE DONALD*?

Man, Daddy Warbucks was supposed to cough up the dough. Oh, and where's Kelly?

What's going on? I want the aggie. I want the juice. Don't ya know? I want the facts.

Not turnip juice, not maybe, not child killers.

The real deal. The $$$. To make this happen. Because, it seems that is what it will take.

Londonjohn is going to offer his expertise, Kevin as well. Knock 'em dead, guys.

Amanda CANNOT lose..Jeeze, with what you guys have, the Prosecution should just fold like a cheap suitcase. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Your posts are rather creative tonight, capealadin. I hope you won't have any regrets in the morning. ;)
 
Mary: Even though we are on opposite sides here, I respect you.

You are convinced of innocence, me of guilt. Far apart, but close in wanting justice.

I promise you this though: Should it be proved that Amanda is INNOCENT ( not through a technicality) I will treat you to an evening you will not forget.. I have family in Seattle..and it will be my pleasure to rejoice with you. I, myself, would thank G-d, if an innocent person would be set free. And add my name for a petition for monetary recompensation.

However, I would ask you this. Does NOTHING give you qualms about the happenings of that night? Nothing that strikes you, a little off? Because, for me, even if I believed Amanda inocent, I would have some qustions. Let's be REAL Mary. I want so much to give you the respect of common sense. Give me something, girlfriend :)
 
capealadin said:
Mary: Even though we are on opposite sides here, I respect you.

You are convinced of innocence, me of guilt. Far apart, but close in wanting justice.

I promise you this though: Should it be proved that Amanda is INNOCENT ( not through a technicality) I will treat you to an evening you will not forget.. I have family in Seattle..and it will be my pleasure to rejoice with you. I, myself, would thank G-d, if an innocent person would be set free. And add my name for a petition for monetary recompensation.

However, I would ask you this. Does NOTHING give you qualms about the happenings of that night? Nothing that strikes you, a little off? Because, for me, even if I believed Amanda inocent, I would have some qustions. Let's be REAL Mary. I want so much to give you the respect of common sense. Give me something, girlfriend :)
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Actually there has always been something that has struck me as a little off. That would be the car in the driveway. There have been claims that whoever parked that car there was visiting someone else that didn't live at the apartment. Yet was there any evidence presented that a car had blocked the driveway in the past? Also why would someone park their car in someones driveway when there is a parking garage across the street? Plus that car was there an awefully long time. Since before the couple in the car broke down and until after the broken down car people left. Which means its very possible that car was sitting in the driveway when Meredith walked up. Does anyone know exactly where in the drive the car was?
 
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No, Mary. No regrets. And, to be honest, a can understand when people ask why cry with the Kerchers. We didn't know Meredith. However, we can all relate to someone like her. A niece, a sister, a cousin" I can't be;ive anyone here doesn't relate to that smile, those eyes of promise?

Amanda will be out in a few years. She has family visit her, prospective authors ( By the way, do you guys APPROVE of Girlanda)..of the *Hugs* ) OK, Never mind.

Are any of you parents? Can you even imagine the PAIN? And, what else are they to think? At the end of the day, Guede said Raff and Amanda were there. There IS evidence of a staged break in, with Amanda's DNA.

I, for one, would offer my abject apologies, for anything I have posted, should it be proved that I was wrong.

But, as itstands, I only see a young, beautiful, beloved child, who could have been mine, tortured, in pain, for nothing. And, as a parent, I am heartbroken.

I feel this pain for many cases. Some kind of apology, some condolence, would help me find forgiveness. Am I mistaken>
 
capealadin said:
Mary: Even though we are on opposite sides here, I respect you.

You are convinced of innocence, me of guilt. Far apart, but close in wanting justice.

I promise you this though: Should it be proved that Amanda is INNOCENT ( not through a technicality) I will treat you to an evening you will not forget.. I have family in Seattle..and it will be my pleasure to rejoice with you. I, myself, would thank G-d, if an innocent person would be set free. And add my name for a petition for monetary recompensation.

However, I would ask you this. Does NOTHING give you qualms about the happenings of that night? Nothing that strikes you, a little off? Because, for me, even if I believed Amanda inocent, I would have some qustions. Let's be REAL Mary. I want so much to give you the respect of common sense. Give me something, girlfriend :)
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Thanks for asking, c. Being perfectly real, as someone who feels like she "gets" Amanda, I do not have one scintilla of doubt that she spent the night at Raffaele's and had absolutely no reason whatsoever to be interested in anything sinister involving Meredith.

Furthermore, if Amanda somehow had become involved in something like that, there is no way she would not have broken down, admitted guilt and begged forgiveness. She just doesn't have the background and psychological make-up of someone who can keep a big secret from her family members. It would involve a separation from her values that would be more painful for her than serving time in prison.

I really don't believe Amanda is afraid to be honest. She has already admitted to many regrets. Whether she had been involved in the crime purposely or by accident, she would want reconciliation.
 
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capealadin said:
No, Mary. No regrets. And, to be honest, a can understand when people ask why cry with the Kerchers. We didn't know Meredith. However, we can all relate to someone like her. A niece, a sister, a cousin" I can't be;ive anyone here doesn't relate to that smile, those eyes of promise?

Amanda will be out in a few years. She has family visit her, prospective authors ( By the way, do you guys APPROVE of Girlanda)..of the *Hugs* ) OK, Never mind.

Are any of you parents? Can you even imagine the PAIN? And, what else are they to think? At the end of the day, Guede said Raff and Amanda were there. There IS evidence of a staged break in, with Amanda's DNA.

I, for one, would offer my abject apologies, for anything I have posted, should it be proved that I was wrong.

But, as itstands, I only see a young, beautiful, beloved child, who could have been mine, tortured, in pain, for nothing. And, as a parent, I am heartbroken.

I feel this pain for many cases. Some kind of apology, some condolence, would help me find forgiveness. Am I mistaken>
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Ok If Raff and Amanda killed Meredith. Who took off the bra? Guede, Meredith, Sollecito, or the 3 other unidentified people whose dna was on the clasp? Since Knox's DNA was found in the apartment, why isn't the other 2 roommates who have never given a dna sample and the 3 unidentified people whose dna is on the bra clasp not convicted of murder?
 
Mary_H said:
Thanks for asking, c. Being perfectly real, as someone who feels like she "gets" Amanda, I do not have one scintilla of doubt that she spent the night at Raffaele's and had absolutely no reason whatsoever to be interested in anything sinister involving Meredith.

Furthermore, if Amanda somehow had become involved in something like that, there is no way she would not have broken down, admitted guilt and begged forgiveness. She just doesn't have the background and psychological make-up of someone who can keep a big secret from her family members. It would involve a separation for her from her values that would be more painful than serving time in prison.

I really don't believe Amanda is afraid to be honest. She has already admitted to many regrets. Whether she had been involved in the crime purposely or by accident, she would want reconciliation.
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I agree. Its not like Knox was tried in Texas where they would have fast tracked her to the electric chair for murder/rape. She could just say oops sorry, and get 10 years in Italy. I believe if she truely had something to do with this, she would have given a proper confession by now.
 
Evidence is tricky. Sometimes it is a sign of guilt, and sometimes it turns up because someone is looking for signs of guilt.

In 1980, an Australian woman named Lindy Chamberlain was on a camping trip with her family, and a dingo snatched her baby. The story became a national sensation. Lots of people thought Chamberlain was lying and that she had murdered her child. Some thought it was a religious sacrifice, given that she and her husband were Seventh Day Adventists. And she seemed calm and detached in front of the TV cameras, like she wasn't bothered by what had happened. Pretty soon the push was on to prosecute her for murder. And there was no shortage of evidence:

- The baby's stretchsuit was found, turned inside-out. How could a dingo have done that?

- A stuffed stretchsuit like the baby's was dragged through the area where the baby had been snatched. The test stretchsuit ended up with charcoal on it, consistent with wildfires in the area - but there was no charcoal on the actual stretchsuit worn by the baby.

- Captive dingos were given a stretchsuit stuffed with meat. The type of damage they caused was completely different from what was done to the stretchsuit belonging to the baby.

- The pattern of bloodstains on the stretchsuit indicated that the baby had been held upright while it bled to death.

- A forensic expert testified that damage to the stretchsuit was done by scissors, not by dingo teeth.

- He also testified that an examination of the stretchsuit under a UV light revealed a human hand print, too small to be man's but too large to be that of an infant.

- Another forensic expert testified that she found blood on a pair of scissors taken from the Chamberlains' car.

- Chamberlain sent a blood-stained track suit, which she had been wearing when the baby disappeared, to the cleaners.

- Chamberlain's husband, Michael, admitted at the inquest that he had cleaned blood out of his car after the baby's disappearance.

- Police testified that they found blood inside the car.

Chamberlain was tried, convicted and sentenced to life in prison. But there were people who could see it was a railroad job. They realized that Chamberlain simply was not the sort of person who would murder her child. She was an emotionally stable, respectable woman with a solid marriage and two other children who were happy and well cared for. A group of 30 scientists signed a letter protesting the junk science that had helped convict Chamberlain. Wildlife experts confirmed many cases in which dingos had attacked infants or toddlers. Groups began forming around the country for the purpose of getting Chamberlain's conviction overturned. After two years, the authorities let her out of prison, and she and her husband went on a media campaign to convince the public of her innocence. It worked. A juror announced that she had changed her mind and believed Chamberlain was innocent. The story became the subject of a movie starring Meryl Streep. Now, more than 20 years after Lindy Chamberlain was released, Australians accept that prosecuting her was a tragic mistake.

But look at all the evidence they had.
 
capealadin said:
No, Mary. No regrets. And, to be honest, a can understand when people ask why cry with the Kerchers. We didn't know Meredith. However, we can all relate to someone like her. A niece, a sister, a cousin" I can't be;ive anyone here doesn't relate to that smile, those eyes of promise?

Amanda will be out in a few years. She has family visit her, prospective authors ( By the way, do you guys APPROVE of Girlanda)..of the *Hugs* ) OK, Never mind.

Are any of you parents? Can you even imagine the PAIN? And, what else are they to think? At the end of the day, Guede said Raff and Amanda were there. There IS evidence of a staged break in, with Amanda's DNA.

I, for one, would offer my abject apologies, for anything I have posted, should it be proved that I was wrong.

But, as itstands, I only see a young, beautiful, beloved child, who could have been mine, tortured, in pain, for nothing. And, as a parent, I am heartbroken.

I feel this pain for many cases. Some kind of apology, some condolence, would help me find forgiveness. Am I mistaken>
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Everything you say about Meredith is true; it's just that it shouldn't have any bearing on what you think of Amanda, because she didn't commit the crime. Amanda, too, is a young, beautiful, beloved child who is in pain for nothing. Her parents are heartbroken. It serves someone's purposes for Amanda and Meredith to be placed on opposite poles, but I don't believe it serves reality or justice.

The Kerchers most definitely are entitled to condolences, apologies and restorative justice from the city of Perugia, who may have been responsible for Meredith's death by not preventing Rudy from continuing his crime spree.
 
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Chris, I really don't know what to make of the car. At the end of the day, what does that have to do with the evidencence?

What bothers me, is the LACK of evidence. None in Meredith's room.

AND, NONE IN AMANDA'S ROOM.!!!!!!!

What does that MEAN???????? She showered there (Yikes,, the cops lied about the odour)..went into her room, lived there, fer christskes.......

Bt the way, Meredith was her friend...You're going to tell me she never stepped into her FRIEND'S ROOM?

Something smells in Denmark... C'mon.guys.........you have to cede SOMETHING...Curt's * They went to the chocolate festival together.* is just not enough.

I honestly don't know what happened that terrible night, but aI do know, it was a terrible happinstance. Why, in the end, does Guede incriminate Amanda and Raffaele? He gains nothing by doing so. Why does Raffaele throw Amanda under the bus? He is not co-erced. 2 and 2 make not 4 here, but multiples of 9. and, theat does not compute.
 
capealadin said:
Chris, I really don't know what to make of the car. At the end of the day, what does that have to do with the evidencence?

What bothers me, is the LACK of evidence. None in Meredith's room.

AND, NONE IN AMANDA'S ROOM.!!!!!!!

What does that MEAN???????? She showered there (Yikes,, the cops lied about the odour)..went into her room, lived there, fer christskes.......

Bt the way, Meredith was her friend...You're going to tell me she never stepped into her FRIEND'S ROOM?

Something smells in Denmark... C'mon.guys.........you have to cede SOMETHING...Curt's * They went to the chocolate festival together.* is just not enough.

I honestly don't know what happened that terrible night, but aI do know, it was a terrible happinstance. Why, in the end, does Guede incriminate Amanda and Raffaele? He gains nothing by doing so. Why does Raffaele throw Amanda under the bus? He is not co-erced. 2 and 2 make not 4 here, but multiples of 9. and, theat does not compute.
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Rudy gained a lot by accusing Amanda and Raffaele. If he had gone to trial saying some strangers had committed the crime while he sat on the toilet and then tried to save Meredith, it is much less likely the jury panel would have believed him. By putting faces and names to the two strangers, he gave the jury panel some pictures to hold in their minds, making his story easier to believe. Since the jury panel knew the other prosecution team had "evidence" that Amanda and Raffaele had participated, all the better for Rudy's version of events.

There is every reason to believe Rudy's attorneys convinced him to accuse Amanda and Raffaele; that is why he did it in March instead of in November.

Raffaele did not throw Amanda under the bus. He believed the police when they told him Amanda had been involved in the crime. When he stopped believing them, he let the judge know at his hearing in December that Amanda had spent the night with him.
 
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capealadin said:
Chris, I really don't know what to make of the car. At the end of the day, what does that have to do with the evidencence?

What bothers me, is the LACK of evidence. None in Meredith's room.

AND, NONE IN AMANDA'S ROOM.!!!!!!!

What does that MEAN???????? She showered there (Yikes,, the cops lied about the odour)..went into her room, lived there, fer christskes.......

Bt the way, Meredith was her friend...You're going to tell me she never stepped into her FRIEND'S ROOM?

Something smells in Denmark... C'mon.guys.........you have to cede SOMETHING...Curt's * They went to the chocolate festival together.* is just not enough.

I honestly don't know what happened that terrible night, but aI do know, it was a terrible happinstance. Why, in the end, does Guede incriminate Amanda and Raffaele? He gains nothing by doing so. Why does Raffaele throw Amanda under the bus? He is not co-erced. 2 and 2 make not 4 here, but multiples of 9. and, theat does not compute.
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A car that spent atleast 2 hours in Meredith's driveway the night of the murder, during the time of death, and no one steps forward to say it was theirs, is casually written off because it doesn't match sollecito's car? Yet St. Mignini claims a cleanup took place, eventhough it can't be proven, and many claim that as evidence. There is proof there was a car in the driveway during the time of the murder and it doesn't belong to Sollecito or Knox.
 
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Edda and Curt should be heartbroken, IF, nay, even if it was their child. Guilty or innocent, a parent would be grieving.

To be honest, Mary...I will never understand the excuse of not offering condolences. Even if i belived my child innocent.

It is the COMPLETE denial that my child is nothing LESS than perfect, that strains credibility.

A word here , for anyone who cares to listen. We adore our kids, but, in reality, they are not perfect. Neither are we.

Mine do not, for instance, break into tears when they step on a flower, however, they do help move furniture, double date, when necessary, give up their bed, and listen when a friend is heartbroken over a love affair gone wrong.

Do they act irresponsibly, as amanda? For sure.

But, I hope to G-d, they would never act so callously, so flippantly. May i ask, not facetiously, what do YOU like about someone like Amanda?

For me, as a mother of sons that I adore, an Aunt who wants to welcome men into our family? Why would I want someone like Amanda?

I am open to your thoughts. I have a daughter in law, who works with children with autism. Another who works with burn victims. A son who is an attorney, and works pro bono, with illegal immigrants. And another, who is a used car dealer.

of course, I would fight tooth and nail for them. But, I would also recognize their shortcomings. It is, perhaps, the absolute DENIAL of anthing less than perfection, that strains credibilty.

A woman, smoking dope, sleeping with a guy on a first date, first of all, is not a great introduction. Right? Or, am I old fashioned>
 
I am going to respect your convictions .ary, even though we disagree.

However, I will say this. I have three sons. Amanda would NOT be the daughter-in-law I would be thrilled to have.

Let's forget about murderess. I would want a woman, who showed empathy, maturity, intelligence,

Could I ask, you, Mary, as an intelligent woman...what is it about Amanda that would make you welcome her into your household? I will listen, and be open.

For me,I don't care about looks, or colour, or degrees. i do care, however, about a caring, loving, empathetic,sympathetic person.

With the best will in the world, Amanda would not be a welcome addition. Please give me some attributes.
 
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capealadin said:
Edda and Curt should be heartbroken, IF, nay, even if it was their child. Guilty or innocent, a parent would be grieving.

To be honest, Mary...I will never understand the excuse of not offering condolences. Even if i belived my child innocent.

It is the COMPLETE denial that my child is nothing LESS than perfect, that strains credibility.

A word here , for anyone who cares to listen. We adore our kids, but, in reality, they are not perfect. Neither are we.

Mine do not, for instance, break into tears when they step on a flower, however, they do help move furniture, double date, when necessary, give up their bed, and listen when a friend is heartbroken over a love affair gone wrong.

Do they act irresponsibly, as amanda? For sure.

But, I hope to G-d, they would never act so callously, so flippantly. May i ask, not facetiously, what do YOU like about someone like Amanda?

For me, as a mother of sons that I adore, an Aunt who wants to welcome men into our family? Why would I want someone like Amanda?

I am open to your thoughts. I have a daughter in law, who works with children with autism. Another who works with burn victims. A son who is an attorney, and works pro bono, with illegal immigrants. And another, who is a used car dealer.

of course, I would fight tooth and nail for them. But, I would also recognize their shortcomings. It is, perhaps, the absolute DENIAL of anthing less than perfection, that strains credibilty.

A woman, smoking dope, sleeping with a guy on a first date, first of all, is not a great introduction. Right? Or, am I old fashioned>
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You've done a good job with your kids, c,; you can be proud of their accomplishments and their generous spirits.

The only reason anyone might see Amanda as callous or flippant is because of what they have read in the papers or heard about her in the news. It isn't fair to use those few minutes of her life to judge her. Those who know her say she is a good person who truly cares about other people. I can easily see Amanda engaged in the kinds of activities your kids are engaged in.

Smoking pot and sleeping with someone on the first date are not that savory, but they don't make someone a bad person or a murderer. Besides, it's only because of the public nature of the case that we even know these aspects of Amanda's private life. I'm sure we'd be surprised to find out what a lot of upstanding people do in private. In most cases, I'd rather not know. :eek: :jaw-dropp: :faint:

Amanda isn't responsible for her parents' position on talking to the Kerchers. I am certain Amanda's parents feel sorry for Meredith's family's loss, but as I said in my previous post, Amanda isn't responsible for Meredith's death. I can understand why her parents would not want to deal with anyone who believes she is. I'm not sure Meredith's parents even care if they hear from Amanda's parents, anyway.
 
Fine Mary. Let's deal with what we do know. Shopping for lingerie, not going to the Memorial. Saying eh* F****ing bled to death* Kissing and giving tongue at the police station. Saying in Court * I only knew her for a short while, I need yo get on with my life.

SINGING IN COURT, Mary, a la Diana Downs.

SINGING, Mary. I honestly get shivers. That is so macabre. how is that explained? HOW????????
 
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