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I have no reference why TSA policies are wrong

BobTheCoward

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So, I am seeing a lot of protests and complaints about the new TSA procedures. I really want to enter the debate, but I need to back up and get some basic things explained to me?

Why do people feel this is wrong?

I simply have no empathy for the people complaining. Not by choice. I just have no emotional or intellectual knowledge to relate. What is performed in the new TSA procedures is normal behavior for me.

Let's start with the body scanners. Many people may see pictures of my fully nude body in a normally non-sexual situation; a situation that involved prepubescent children and may on occasion involve sexual deviants. I have a name for that: showering and changing clothes at the gym. How are they different?

Same thing with the body searches: generally non-sexual patdowns including children. My name for that: sports. I'm not even very athletic, but you get more genital-hand contact in a pick up basketball game.

What am I missing?
 
Some people just like to make things up and say that the big bad government is taking our rights away. You generally also have to go through security checks at stadiums, clubs, concerts, courthouses, police stations, political conventions, etc. These security checks usually include any of the following: Bag checks, walking through metal detectors, pat downs, xray scanners, hand held metal detectors, bomb sniffing dogs, etc. All the same security checks that you would find at an airport. People just need something to be mad about and get offended by, and right now this is the new thing to get mad about. In a week or so people will be all worked up about something else that really isn't that big a of a deal.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Some people just like to make things up and say that the big bad government is taking our rights away. You generally also have to go through security checks at stadiums, clubs, concerts, courthouses, police stations, political conventions, etc. These security checks usually include any of the following: Bag checks, walking through metal detectors, pat downs, xray scanners, hand held metal detectors, bomb sniffing dogs, etc. All the same security checks that you would find at an airport. People just need something to be mad about and get offended by, and right now this is the new thing to get mad about. In a week or so people will be all worked up about something else that really isn't that big a of a deal.
Click to expand...

This.


Plus, I am quite sure most of these people were angry that the US Gov didn't do enough to prevent 9/11, Richard Reid, or Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. It's only a good idea until it's an inconvenience to them.
 
Let's try this;

FOURTH AMENDMENT

SEARCH AND SEIZURE
_________
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
violated; and no Warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported
by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Click to expand...

I believe it's the probable cause part the bothers people. I know about stop and frisk, but these proceeder's go well beyond that.

Is there really cause for this;
widget_bR8ajtUQHdsR4HHHNTI9kC.jpg

It's ridiculous!

Now they want to screen pilots. Someone give me one good reason to screen pilots. They are already in control of the plane. They don't need a gun or a bomb. They can just crash it.

We need to start profiling. Not racial profiling. Not religious profiling. Terrorist profiling.
 
I agree, the guy in the pic probably didn't need to be searched. But where would you draw that line? Are you really saying TSA should have some sort of criteria for people that do not need to be checked?
 
Quad4_72 said:
I agree, the guy in the pic probably didn't need to be searched. But where would you draw that line? Are you really saying TSA should have some sort of criteria for people that do not need to be checked?
Click to expand...


Yes, absolutely. An absence of probable cause to suspect that the particular individual has criminal intent. That's the criterion set by the Fourth Amendment.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Yes, absolutely. An absence of probable cause to suspect that the particular individual has criminal intent. That's the criterion set by the Fourth Amendment.
Click to expand...

Ok, so are you suggesting that there should be no search of individuals at airports?
 
That would be one coat of primer and three coats of finish. OK? Is there a worm on that hook? Where did I say I was an expert in counter terrorism? I'm sure there are others with much more knowledge of this criteria than me.

What do you think of this?
Secretary Janet Napolitano is actually considering exempting Muslims as per CAIR’s demands. Madame Secretary confirmed this week that there will be “adjustments” and “more to come” on the issue of Muslim women in hijabs undergoing airport security pat-downs.
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Search everyone.................................but not the Muslims. Hmmmmm. I know I'm just a painter but I don't think that is the right criteria.
 
The Painter said:
That would be one coat of primer and three coats of finish. OK? Is there a worm on that hook? Where did I say I was an expert in counter terrorism? I'm sure there are others with much more knowledge of this criteria than me.

What do you think of this?


Search everyone.................................but not the Muslims. Hmmmmm. I know I'm just a painter but I don't think that is the right criteria.
Click to expand...

No, its not the right criteria, and I didn't say it was either. You are suggesting some sort of criteria though that defines who should be searched and who should not. I am curious as to what you think that should be.
 
Quad4_72 said:
And what would you propose those criteria be?
Click to expand...
Paying cash, buying a ticket at the last minute, not checking luggage for a long trip, buying a one-way ticket, evasive when asked about their destination, buying a first-class ticket despite having no apparent source of income, etc etc.

Such methods would likely have caught the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber, whereas former methods did not and the new screening methods probably wouldn't either.

The new methods are all about giving the illusion of security without actually achieving security.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Let's start with the body scanners. Many people may see pictures of my fully nude body in a normally non-sexual situation; a situation that involved prepubescent children and may on occasion involve sexual deviants. I have a name for that: showering and changing clothes at the gym. How are they different?
Click to expand...
Many of us don't shower/change clothes at gyms for exactly that reason, we're not comfortable being naked around strangers.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Ok, so are you suggesting that there should be no search of individuals at airports?
Click to expand...


What part of “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated…” do you not understand?
 
Bob Blaylock said:
What part of “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated…” do you not understand?
Click to expand...

The unreasonable part. The point of why I started this thread. I am huge proponent of the 4th amendment. Nothing here strikes me as unreasonable.
 
how many people flew on a plane in 2009?

and only one of them had a bomb in his underwear.

so we are gonna inconvenience and abuse billions of people in order to possible stop one?

wow. you know folks, when we significantly alter our way of life, out of fear of terrorists, the terrorists win.

if an Al-Qaeda guy shoves some C4 up his bum, are we gonna start mandatory rectal exams for all passengers?

the cost/benefit ratio for these full-body scans and intimate pat downs..is SURELY not on the side of benefits.

....would I rather we NOT do the body scans and intimiate pat downs, knowing that some terrorists might get explosives through in their crotch on in their bra?

yes. we cannot sacrifice our way of life out of fear. there is nothing left to protect if we do.
 
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I have to say I find both processes intrusive. However for the life of me I can not think of a better way to do it. When I do thats when I will start complaining
 
WildCat said:
I think naked photos and genital groping is unreasonable.
Click to expand...

Which brings me back to the reason I started this thread: why? That page you linked to said, "embarrassingly intimate pat-downs." I don't see it. Because someone cups their hand and places it on your genitals through your clothing in a very clinical manner? How does that bother anyone?

I am not kidding when I say I have no frame of reference. When people debate this subject, there are assumptions being made that I am not aware of. It seems that people, in a short period of time, have developed body and image issues.
 
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