Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[LondonJohn]

I'm not under any impression - merely correcting Katody Matrass & pointing out that the FOAkers and Daily Mail readership have a lot in common


ETA

Your

Salacious sex murder with an attractive female protagonist [railroaded by corrupt & untrustworthy foreigners] to titillate the readership, but the black guy still did it.

with my addition sums up the FOAker appeal quite succinctly.

Now I hope I am impervious to being described as "circuitous" or not using 'clear declarative statements', on this occasion.

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Perhaps you ought to let Carlo Dalla Vedova and Giulia Bongiorno know that they are being xenophobic towards their own country in their appeal submissions...

 

[LondonJohn]

Machine / Harry Rag is on a roll! He's now urging PMFers to write to the PCC (the UK's regulatory body for the printed media) to complain about "factually incorrect innocentisti articles" in the British newspapers. And he helpfully provides a link to the PCC's complaints form webpage.

It's just a shame that he didn't actually bother to read the page he linked to. It says this about who can make a complaint to the PCC:

"We normally accept complaints only from those who are directly affected by the matters about which they are complaining."

Keep up the great work, Machine.......

 

[christianahannah]

An article from Umbria24.it. It is readable for most part with Google Translate. Includes summaries of Amanda's, Raffaele's and the prosecution's appeals.

The first paragraph states that the trial will likely last not less than 10 meetings. I wonder with the holidays and limited days that the court meets how long this will be - and if the trial will go much longer if the court grants the requests of the defendants in their separate appeals.

http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/mere...appello-per-amanda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito/

 

[LondonJohn]

May I say how much i resent platonov's ludicrous attempt to paint me as some kind of Daily Mail reading racist just because I said 'Thank God I'm British, for the legal system if nothing else'.

It was hardly a ringing endorsement of little England fascism, was it?

Don't worry about it. Smears like that tell us much more about the person who writes them than the intended recipient. Only start to engage if/when someone like that makes some cogent arguments about the case itself. Such as what time Meredith died. Or why the time of death given by the court is completely at odds with not only the testimony of the witnesses in the broken-down car, but also with the evidence from Guede's trial placing him across town by 11.30pm. Or whether Curatolo, Quintavalle and Capezzali are reliable witnesses or not. Or what the evidence is for Knox's/Sollecito's whereabouts between 8.30pm and midnight on 1st November 2007.

 

[Withnail1969]

I
It probably doesn't help in the least that on certain other boards the moderators will take it as a personal affront if you so much as attempt to revise the official doctrine on Quintavalle even in a way designed to be compatible with guilt.

Insisting on the absolute truthfulness of Quintavalle opened up a whole can of worms for the guilters, because of course there were no sales of anything recorded and Raffaele already had bleach by the bucket load.

So a theory of an extraordinarily daring and sophisticated double bluff operation emerged, whereby Amanda, dressed 'inconspicuously', steals a mophead from Quintavelle's shop, replaces the blood-soaked mop head used in the cleanup with a new one, and then talks a lot about the mop to attract attention to the (now) uncontaminated mop, thus making the suspects look innocent.

Occam's razor anyone?

 

[LondonJohn]

Insisting on the absolute truthfulness of Quintavalle opened up a whole can of worms for the guilters, because of course there were no sales of anything recorded and Raffaele already had bleach by the bucket load.

So a theory of an extraordinarily daring and sophisticated double bluff operation emerged, whereby Amanda, dressed 'inconspicuously', steals a mophead from Quintavelle's shop, replaces the blood-soaked mop head used in the cleanup with a new one, and then talks a lot about the mop to attract attention to the (now) uncontaminated mop, thus making the suspects look innocent.

Occam's razor anyone?

No, I reckon that these are the actions of a pair of evil geniuses, who employed this elaborate double-bluff to mislead the police, yet - despite having had well over 12 hours to clean up and think things through - left Sollecito's bloody partial print on the bath mat and placed one of the murder knives back in their own kitchen drawer. Sure!

Oh and not to mention the fact that they effectively manage to erase any evidence of mopping from the girls' house, given that no smearing was found anywhere, and nor was there in fact any positive evidence of a clean-up having taken place (absence of footprints is not positive evidence of a clean-up).

 

[platonov]

Confusion

Perhaps you ought to let Carlo Dalla Vedova and Giulia Bongiorno know that they are being xenophobic towards their own country in their appeal submissions...

I see my hopes have been cruelly dashed - even using 'clear declarative statements' you appear to have confused ' FOAker appeal ' with the defense teams at work on the appeal in Italy.

Who'd' a thunk it was possible

The confusion surrounding this case becomes more explicable with every post.

But now that this is cleared up, & you by implication you had no issues [or misinterpretations ] w.r.t. to the rest of my post we can move on.

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[LondonJohn]

I see my hopes have been cruelly dashed - even using 'clear declarative statements' you appear to have confused ' FOAker appeal ' with the defense teams at work on the appeal in Italy.

Who'd' a thunk it was possible

The confusion surrounding this case becomes more explicable with every post.

But now that this is cleared up, & you by implication you had no issues [or misinterpretations ] w.r.t. to the rest of my post we can move on.

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What do you mean by your use of the word "appeal" then, within your pejorative phrase "FOAker appeal"?

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[Katody Matrass]

May I say how much i resent platonov's ludicrous attempt to paint me as some kind of Daily Mail reading racist just because I said 'Thank God I'm British, for the legal system if nothing else'.

It was hardly a ringing endorsement of little England fascism, was it?

I wouldn't worry about that poster. I see from the quotes that although he throws racism accusations, his babble is as incomprehensible as usual. It's not a very effective kind of trolling. We can safely keep him on ignore

 

[Katody Matrass]

No, I reckon that these are the actions of a pair of evil geniuses, who employed this elaborate double-bluff to mislead the police, yet - despite having had well over 12 hours to clean up and think things through - left Sollecito's bloody partial print on the bath mat and placed one of the murder knives back in their own kitchen drawer. Sure!

According to some conspiracy theorists, the false confession/accusation was also a part of an elaborate plan

 

[Withnail1969]

According to some conspiracy theorists, the false confession/accusation was also a part of an elaborate plan

Yes, I've read some thoughts along those lines. If I'm ever accused of a murder, i must remember to confess to being present at the crime scene. That should keep me out of jail.

 

[platonov]

the concept of homonyms

What do you mean by your use of the word "appeal" then, within your pejorative phrase "FOAker appeal"?


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If you are not familiar with the concept of homonyms, polysemous or otherwise, then, as before, I'm afraid this confusion is not amenable to a text based solution.

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[Dan O.]

A few pages back, someone mentioned that it would have been easier for rudy to use the shower to clean up the blood on his trousers than the Bidet. The problem with using a shower is if the spray is coming down from overhead he would be likely to get drenched from top to bottom. Since he is in a hurry to get away from the crime scene, I doubt that he would be stripping down to take a full shower.

It recently occurred to me that if the shower had a flexible sprayer like this one:

He could rinse blood off the lower pant leg without undressing (only the shoe would need to be removed). And he could step out from the shower directly onto the edge of the bath mat so as not to put his bare foot on the cold tile floor.

 

[LondonJohn]

If you are not familiar with the concept of homonyms, polysemous or otherwise, then, as before, I'm afraid this confusion is not amenable to a text based solution.

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No, I'm too stupid to know what polysemy is, of course. But if you're attempting to use the word "appeal" in its other sense (the power of attracting or arousing interest) then what you wrote makes no sense. Unless, of course, you meant to say "its appeal to FOAkers", rather than "FOAker appeal" (which clearly implies the appeal of FOAkers). Shame you couldn't express yourself more accurately.

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[RoseMontague]

An article from Umbria24.it. It is readable for most part with Google Translate. Includes summaries of Amanda's, Raffaele's and the prosecution's appeals.

The first paragraph states that the trial will likely last not less than 10 meetings. I wonder with the holidays and limited days that the court meets how long this will be - and if the trial will go much longer if the court grants the requests of the defendants in their separate appeals.

http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/mere...appello-per-amanda-knox-e-raffaele-sollecito/

Thanks Christiana. It seems to me to devote a lot of attention to the prosecution appeal which I have not seen much of. Certainly, the appeal is already scheduled to last quite a bit longer than Fulcanelli's estimate.

 

[LondonJohn]

Thanks Christiana. It seems to me to devote a lot of attention to the prosecution appeal which I have not seen much of. Certainly, the appeal is already scheduled to last quite a bit longer than Fulcanelli's estimate.

It does, doesn't it. Especially if the new tests are granted - and I find it hard to see how the appeal court can refuse to grant these tests.

 

[christianahannah]

Thanks Christiana. It seems to me to devote a lot of attention to the prosecution appeal which I have not seen much of. Certainly, the appeal is already scheduled to last quite a bit longer than Fulcanelli's estimate.

Yes, I agree.

I noticed that the appeals ask to question two somewhat controversial witnesses, Mario Alessi for Raffaele and Luciano Aviello for Amanda. If granted, this could have the effect of adding many more meetings to the trial.

 

[LondonJohn]

Yes, I agree.

I noticed that the appeals ask to question two somewhat controversial witnesses, Mario Alessi for Raffaele and Luciano Aviello for Amanda. If granted, this could have the effect of adding many more meetings to the trial.

I can only suppose that the defence teams have got something significantly more than just the publicly-known statements of these two gentlemen. After all, as you say, they are controversial figures (to say the least), and I imagine that it wouldn't be difficult for the prosecution to refute their testimony if it wasn't backed up by something more substantive. And if their testimony were easy to refute, then it would probably end up damaging the defence's credibility in producing them in the first place. I guess we shall soon find out...

 

[Fine]

No, I reckon that these are the actions of a pair of evil geniuses, who employed this elaborate double-bluff to mislead the police, yet - despite having had well over 12 hours to clean up and think things through - left Sollecito's bloody partial print on the bath mat and placed one of the murder knives back in their own kitchen drawer. Sure!

Oh and not to mention the fact that they effectively manage to erase any evidence of mopping from the girls' house, given that no smearing was found anywhere, and nor was there in fact any positive evidence of a clean-up having taken place (absence of footprints is not positive evidence of a clean-up).

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Umm, no smearing found anywhere? John, you may wish to look at the luminol-reacting bare footprint shown in image #33 of the Rinaldi Report, HERE . Looks like a textbook example of smearing to me.

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[Withnail1969]

I can only suppose that the defence teams have got something significantly more than just the publicly-known statements of these two gentlemen. After all, as you say, they are controversial figures (to say the least), and I imagine that it wouldn't be difficult for the prosecution to refute their testimony if it wasn't backed up by something more substantive. And if their testimony were easy to refute, then it would probably end up damaging the defence's credibility in producing them in the first place. I guess we shall soon find out...

Given the high quality of the appeal documents, which seem to deal with all the relevant weaknesses in the prosecution case, I would find it hard to believe they would wheel out such 'oddball' witnesses unless something was in play.

Of course, in 'The Godfather', they found someone else to confess to the shooting of the police chief...