Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Dan O.]

I am not making the claim, I am questioning the often repeated statement that Knox, Sollecito and Lumumba were driven or paraded through the old city of Perugia with lights and sirens going, I have made no mention of the statement made by the police so please do not try and derail the discussion.

I have asked for evidence, but so far the only accounts given are of Lumumba arrest on the morning 6th November.

Asking for evidence will get you nowhere if you are not also willing to search for that evidence yourself. There are publications of this event. What is the earliest publication that mentions a parade with sirens? You might need to search the Italian media since most of the early stories hit the Italian tabloids before getting on the European news wire.

The parade however is just one small piece of the bigger issue of the police generating negative news about the suspects before the trial. I find the parade not inconceivable given all the other antics of the Italian authorities.

 

[Chris C]

Hi ChristianaHannah, Chris C, and El Buscador, LondonJohn and others,
I was just digging thru Frank Sfarzo's Perugia Shock, -(a goldmine of information!) and I found this photograph and article

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/02/perfect-too-perfect.html

about the washing machine in the girls apartment and Meredith's clothes that were found in it that we have discussed...
Imo, it's worth a read again.
RWVBWL

My comment you quoted was a sarcastic comment

 

[TomCH]

Will the absolute truth win over the Italian judges or P them off?

It is NOT the absolute truth, rather it is a lame attempt to corrupt the jury.

And frankly, I personally would view any such attempt to pervert my decision EXTREMELY negatively were I a jurist.

Tom

 

[Withnail1969]

It is NOT the absolute truth, rather it is a lame attempt to corrupt the jury.

And frankly, I personally would view any such attempt to pervert my decision EXTREMELY negatively were I a jurist.

Tom

Machiavelli has told everyone not to use words like 'corrupt' in reference to the Italian legal system, please respect his wishes, thank you.

 

[Machiavelli]

Since you aren't actually going to put the issue to bed but continue to use it as a diversion, why don't you tell us what really happened at the time of the arrests and provide sources to back it up.


(...)

Kermit hi!
Maybe they just met each other. Apparently the Perugia police is not the only one who prefers to go circuitous routes.

 

[billyryan]

barbie is jumping ship,she has being the mouthpiece for mignini in the us media.I think her realinement coincides with the appearance of evidence of computer activity during the TOD

Is there any possible evidence,short of merridith rising from the grave and declaring that amanda and raffaele are innocent,that could possible cause the PMFers who post here to even considder reasnoble doubt

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Candace was correct

Kermit,

Here is a video that shows three cars with their lights and horns on. Based on the presence of photographers and the time of day, this can hardly be of Patrick’s arrest. I suggest someone look into Elio Bertoldi’s reporting on this incident for more details.

Your argument ignores the Perugian who said that the police had only acted this way once before in memory. Another native Italian told me that the police acted like children that day. But more fundamentally you ignore the prejudicial nature of this publicity, of the police statements statements that day, and of the false statements later on (which I recently discussed).

And what is more, you have derailed the discussion. A number of us have asked for things like a coherent explanation of how Guede’s traces could be found in the room but not Knox’s or Sollecito’s and received no answer. Kevin_Lowe’s comment that he has not received an answer to his question is spot on. I suggest we move the discussion back to these more fruitful topics.

 

[pilot padron]

barbie is jumping ship,she has being the mouthpiece for mignini in the us media.I think her realinement coincides with the appearance of evidence of computer activity during the TOD

Is there any possible evidence,short of merridith rising from the grave and declaring that amanda and raffaele are innocent,that could possible cause the PMFers who post here to even considder reasnoble doubt

May M-E-R-E-D-I-T-H rest in peace, her grieving family be accorded the solace they deserve.

Nothing you put forth in your 'argument', including the realinement (sp) makes me personally remotely or even momentarily "possible (sp) cause me to considder (sp) reasnoble (sp) doubt."

 

[el buscador]

Kermit,

Here is a video that shows three cars with their lights and horns on. Based on the presence of photographers and the time of day, this can hardly be of Patrick’s arrest. I suggest someone look into Elio Bertoldi’s reporting on this incident for more details.

Your argument ignores the Perugian who said that the police had only acted this way once before in memory. Another native Italian told me that the police acted like children that day. But more fundamentally you ignore the prejudicial nature of this publicity, of the police statements statements that day, and of the false statements later on (which I recently discussed).

And what is more, you have derailed the discussion. A number of us have asked for things like a coherent explanation of how Guede’s traces could be found in the room but not Knox’s or Sollecito’s and received no answer. Kevin_Lowe’s comment that he has not received an answer to his question is spot on. I suggest we move the discussion back to these more fruitful topics.

The commentator claimed that Amanda Knox was listed as a friend on Meredith's facebook page. I do believe that settles it then, Meredith did consider Amanda to be a friend.

 

[Chris C]

May M-E-R-E-D-I-T-H rest in peace, her grieving family be accorded the solace they deserve.

Nothing you put forth in your 'argument', including the realinement (sp) makes me personally remotely or even momentarily "possible (sp) cause me to considder (sp) reasnoble (sp) doubt."

Seriously? We performing spell check on people? BTW possible is spelled possible.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I hope Amanda and Raffaele won't have to wait for the Supreme Court to acquit them.
The sooner they will be free and this tragic injustice corrected the better for all, including the Kerchers, which hopefully will be spared lots of further unwanted media attention and will be able to find some peace and have their sorrow allayed.
Meredith won't rest in peace until this injustice is corrected.

 

[Chris C]

I hope Amanda and Raffaele won't have to wait for the Supreme Court to acquit them.
The sooner they will be free and this tragic injustice corrected the better for all, including the Kerchers, which hopefully will be spared lots of further unwanted media attention and will be able to find some peace and have their sorrow allayed.
Meredith won't rest in peace until this injustice is corrected.

This injustice will never be corrected because if Knox/Sollecito get acquitted, Rudy will either get acquitted or have his sentence reduced even further.

 

[Katody Matrass]

This injustice will never be corrected because if Knox/Sollecito get acquitted, Rudy will either get acquitted or have his sentence reduced even further.

Wasn't his trial separate?

 

[RWVBWL]

Kermit,

Here is a video that shows three cars with their lights and horns on. Based on the presence of photographers and the time of day, this can hardly be of Patrick’s arrest. I suggest someone look into Elio Bertoldi’s reporting on this incident for more details.

Your argument ignores the Perugian who said that the police had only acted this way once before in memory. Another native Italian told me that the police acted like children that day. But more fundamentally you ignore the prejudicial nature of this publicity, of the police statements statements that day, and of the false statements later on (which I recently discussed).

And what is more, you have derailed the discussion. A number of us have asked for things like a coherent explanation of how Guede’s traces could be found in the room but not Knox’s or Sollecito’s and received no answer. Kevin_Lowe’s comment that he has not received an answer to his question is spot on. I suggest we move the discussion back to these more fruitful topics.

Hello Halides1,
I wish to thank you for posting that link to that video, for I have never watched that 1 before.
It was especially sad to see the candle light memorial for Meredith...

By watching this particular video, I learned of 2 things.
The 1st is something that Alt-F4 has been recently arguing against:
"As search of social networking sites shows that Meredith listed Amanda Knox as 1 of her friends."

That right there should lay to rest, once and for all,
the question of whether or not Meredith and Amanda friends.

The 2nd thing I learned is that it was true.
After being arrested, and with the cameras rollin',
Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were indeed driven thru town with lights ablaze and sirens blazin'.
Now which author was it that wrote of this?
Candace Dempsey?

Hmmm...
RWVBWL

PS-Hi El Buscador,
I am a slow typer and after watching that video Halides1 has linked, I wanted to state exactly what you too noticed.
I guess that NO ONE can now repute the fact that Meredith Kercher did indeed consider Amanda Knox her friend!

PSS-Welcome BillyRyan!

 

[Chris C]

Wasn't his trial separate?

Yeah but he was still convicted as part of a 3 person murder. So his conviction is flawed if Knox/Sollecito get their conviction overturned. From what I understand and Machi could probably give better insight on the subject, Italy has a lot of technical issues that give defendants new trials.

 

[odeed]

Hi Odeed,
Question for you.
If someone was involved in a bloody murder, such as the 1 we debate here, and their phone rang at 10:00pm, and it was the police,
do you think it would be "normal" for that person to then answer that phone call?

Why wouldn't that person, who has already been subject to hours and hours of police questioning,
and who surely must have had some kind of idea that the police were getting suspicious and possibly were on to him,
just screen the phone call and let it go to voicemail?
Who wants to talk with the police at 10:00pm at night?
Especially if he were stoned, much less in the midst of having dinner with a couple of friends?

What if the that phone call said "private", "unavailable", or "unknown"?
At 10:00pm on a late fall evening, while stoned and having dinner with friends,
what would you do if you were involved in a horrible crime?
Answer it?

Myself, if I were involved in that horrible of a crime, I would just screen the call and let it go to voicemail.
Heck, the last thing that I would be doing was cooperate with the police whatsoever on my own free will.

That Raffaele Sollecito did not do this, BUT instead DID ANSWER that phone call and afterwards, while so stoned he forgot that his knife was on him as he went down to the questura for further questioning, without lawyering up, further re-inforces my opinion that, in my mind at least, he did not have any involvement whatsoever in the brutal, bloody murder that took Meredith Kercher's life.

I find the comparison between the 2 males convicted of murdering Meredith Kercher quite interesting:

Rudy Guede, when he closed his eyes, saw RED and then split town.

What did Raffaele Sollecito do.
Never split the scene, stayed visible in public, answered questions, answered questions, and answered more questions, even shortly after getting stoned, without lawyering up!
Hmmm...
RWVBWL

Hypothetically, if a person committed a murder and was known to the police they may not want to put anymore suspicion on themselves by avoiding calls from the police. As for getting stoned, Sollecito may have thought it would help him feel less nervous.

As for Guede, I thought he left on 4th November, which was a Sunday of a holiday weekend in Perugia (Fair of the Dead?), when most of the tourist would have been leaving and less suspicious.

 

[el buscador]

Kermit,

Here is a video that shows three cars with their lights and horns on. Based on the presence of photographers and the time of day, this can hardly be of Patrick’s arrest. I suggest someone look into Elio Bertoldi’s reporting on this incident for more details.

Your argument ignores the Perugian who said that the police had only acted this way once before in memory. Another native Italian told me that the police acted like children that day. But more fundamentally you ignore the prejudicial nature of this publicity, of the police statements statements that day, and of the false statements later on (which I recently discussed).

And what is more, you have derailed the discussion. A number of us have asked for things like a coherent explanation of how Guede’s traces could be found in the room but not Knox’s or Sollecito’s and received no answer. Kevin_Lowe’s comment that he has not received an answer to his question is spot on. I suggest we move the discussion back to these more fruitful topics.

I also noticed watching the video that one of the scientific police entered Meredith's room in regular cloths, the next section of video shows a suited up person in the room. Why was there someone wondering into Meredith's room in unprotected gear?

 

[Katody Matrass]

Kermit,

Here is a video that shows three cars with their lights and horns on. Based on the presence of photographers and the time of day, this can hardly be of Patrick’s arrest. I suggest someone look into Elio Bertoldi’s reporting on this incident for more details.

Thanks, halides1! That video is very interesting. In the first car I caught a glimpse of Patrick's dreadlocks on the backseat. If there are AK and RS in the following cars I cannot see.

Notable for me is the telephoto view of the cottage terrace in the middle of the clip. Some guilters argued that it is a natural path of a break-in because it is hidden from view. But the video proves how exposed it is in reality, compared to Filomena's window.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Yeah but he was still convicted as part of a 3 person murder. So his conviction is flawed if Knox/Sollecito get their conviction overturned. From what I understand and Machi could probably give better insight on the subject, Italy has a lot of technical issues that give defendants new trials.

So it would mean another trial for him? And more grief and uncertainty for the Kerchers family? It's a pity how much additional suffering for so many people this injustice brought.

 

[LondonJohn]

Kermit,

Here is a video that shows three cars with their lights and horns on. Based on the presence of photographers and the time of day, this can hardly be of Patrick’s arrest. I suggest someone look into Elio Bertoldi’s reporting on this incident for more details.

Your argument ignores the Perugian who said that the police had only acted this way once before in memory. Another native Italian told me that the police acted like children that day. But more fundamentally you ignore the prejudicial nature of this publicity, of the police statements statements that day, and of the false statements later on (which I recently discussed).

And what is more, you have derailed the discussion. A number of us have asked for things like a coherent explanation of how Guede’s traces could be found in the room but not Knox’s or Sollecito’s and received no answer. Kevin_Lowe’s comment that he has not received an answer to his question is spot on. I suggest we move the discussion back to these more fruitful topics.

It's interesting that certain people are zeroing in on trying to challenge the finer details of the triumphalist display by the Perugia police on 6th November 2007. The word "circuitous" seems to be getting a very heavy airing in particular. What actually matters is that there appears to be ample footage and testimony from locals that the police were acting in an extremely unusual and provocative way on that day. It seems extremely clear that police convoys were causing a deliberately large commotion in Perugia that day - whether they were taking people to the police HQ or taking them from the HQ to prison.

This video only serves to add to the corpus of evidence in this regard. The slight smile of satisfaction playing across De Felice's face is revealing, as is the decision to have so many officers standing in the background - clearly to "share in the triumph". And the departure of Knox, Sollecito and Lumumba from the police HQ seems designed in the same vein.