Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kermit]

Renown World Wrestling Entertainment Tag Team

we're the JREFers (Kermit: made me think of "Hey, hey we're the Monkees ...") .... we take a rigorously evidence-based, science-first approach to problems like this unlike certain other internet communities interested in the case.

Mignini will never be out of the picture, because that fat-faced wino pervert is almost wholly responsible for Amanda's wrongful arrest, imprisonment, conviction and the tragic loss of years of her life.

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Kevin, Mary:

I think that most readers here realise that you're a formible dialectical tag team.

And within that framework of rigorous, science-first approach that you apply, I'd like to look at the issue of Mignini being a "fat-faced wino pervert".

Science is all about observation, let me see if a grasshopper like me can reach your heights:

"fat-faced" - well, okay, there is an abundant set of terminology for one's physical appearance as regards weight, and I will admit that Mignini is not anorexic. I'll concede this description, although the nuance isn't necessarily flattering.

"wino" - do you have any data to back up this one? Even Douglas Preston recognises Mignini as being a Christian family man (although that doesn't necessarily mean that one doesn't drink too much). I haven't seen any text or visual references to Mignini being a drinking man.

(on the other hand, for the sake of fairness, there are photos of both generations of the Mellas family enjoying alcohol. And Amanda's step-father's MySpace page had a small collection of photos of apparently enebriated persons vomiting, before it was set to private)

"pervert" - again, I see no references to perversions on Mignini's part. If you look at his case history, he has prosecuted tax-evaders, horse traders, extorsioners, etc. with no perverse element in his activity, as far as I can see. Of course, you will probably bring up The Monster of Florence killings, however, those belong to a different jurisdiction and he never prosecuted there (MoF investigator Giuttari knew of occultist Carlizzi years before the reactivation of the Narducci case, and it was Giuttari's investigative data that was handed to Mignini re. Narducci). If you read Mario Spezi's book rather than Preston's, you'll see that the "satanic" theory associated with MoF predates the peripheral involvement of Mignini through the Narducci case by many years, and that it's Giuttari and others who developed that theory)

So, going back to your triple slammer description of Mignini, maybe you should only leave him with a rounded face.

 

[RoseMontague]

Yes, another absurdity.

If he left bloody shoe prints all over, which he didn't bother to clean up, why would he remove them so he could also leave a bloody BARE footprints, that WERE cleaned up?

The Luminol revealed footprints were tested for blood and proved negative, they were not bloody footprints and could have been there for weeks and there is nothing showing who made them, when they were made, or what caused the luminol reaction. The fact that they did not contain Meredith's DNA also argues against them having been made with Meredith's blood.

 

[Kermit]

Read all about it

Did he stuff anything into his burglar's backpack? I didn't know we knew that. I don't think he was washing blood off the soles of his shoes - has anyone suggested that? I think he washed it off his jeans and the uppers of his shoes.

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Withnail, you've got to catch up with the FOAKer dogma:

On the FOAKer site, Charlie Wilkes provides this description of how Rudy supposedly made the bathmat footprint - "Very likely the killer laid a bloodied towel on the bathroom floor so that it covered or overlapped the mat. He removed his shoe to rinse the blood from it. While his shoe was off, he stepped on the towel, transferring an imprint to the bathmat."

After this ballet class, it seems that FOAK would have Rudy put on his clean shoe, then like clumsy fool, promptly step in blood again and run out of the house, leaving shoeprints in the living room.

 

[Withnail1969]

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Withnail, you've got to catch up with the FOAKer dogma:

On the FOAKer site, Charlie Wilkes provides this description of how Rudy supposedly made the bathmat footprint - "Very likely the killer laid a bloodied towel on the bathroom floor so that it covered or overlapped the mat. He removed his shoe to rinse the blood from it. While his shoe was off, he stepped on the towel, transferring an imprint to the bathmat."

After this ballet class, it seems that FOAK would have Rudy put on his clean shoe, then like clumsy fool, promptly step in blood again and run out of the house, leaving footprints in the living room.

But where does it say Rudy was washing blood off the soles of his shoes? I think he just washed off any obvious bloodstains for the reason i mentioned above.

 

[RoseMontague]

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Withnail, you've got to catch up with the FOAKer dogma:

On the FOAKer site, Charlie Wilkes provides this description of how Rudy supposedly made the bathmat footprint - "Very likely the killer laid a bloodied towel on the bathroom floor so that it covered or overlapped the mat. He removed his shoe to rinse the blood from it. While his shoe was off, he stepped on the towel, transferring an imprint to the bathmat."

After this ballet class, it seems that FOAK would have Rudy put on his clean shoe, then like clumsy fool, promptly step in blood again and run out of the house, leaving shoeprints in the living room.

It is one theory. I think he sat on the bed and removed his shoes leaving the two shoe prints at the end of the bed and the knife print on the bedspread. Then he went barefoot to the bathroom and washed up, returned to the bedroom and put his shoes back on before he left. Even his testimony says he went to the bathroom for towels to try and stop the bleeding from Meredith.

 

[Katody Matrass]

What 'stolen goods'? Filomena's laptop and jewelry was in plain sight in the room of entry, but they weren't stolen. Her room was ransacked, but nothing was stolen. Why would a burglar DO that?

By stolen goods I meant of course the phones, cards and money. But you obviously know it. Filomena's room was not ransacked. Apart from the clothes thrown out of the wardrobe ( they most likely fell out during the break-in when Rudy snagged the TV cable) and a few postcards (that possibly fell from the nightstand) the floor, the bed and the tables are as cluttered as Filomena left it.

As others pointed out it is perfectly compatible with Rudy breaking in, going to the toilet then being surprised by Meredith's return. It's obvious that after the murder he was no longer interested in any ransacking.

Also, there is evidence of Rudy's presence in virtually all areas of the house EXCEPT in Filomena's room, the wall he supposedly scaled, and the garden below. Why on earth would he remove all traces from those places, and not the rest of house?

Why should he remove any traces? What traces would you expect him to leave there? How many Filomena's traces ILE recovered from that room? She lived there!

There is no evidence ILE seriously searched for any traces in the garden below. That area was not restricted, there is no photo, video or written documentation of any ILE activity there apart from going for a smoke.

As for the wall, there is evidence ILE overlooked suspicious traces completely.

BTW it was a dry night and the ground below the window was covered with dry leaves and herbs. It is patently absurd to expect any other evidence of the wall climbing then actually was there.

 

[Kermit]

Let me get this straight

It is one theory. I think he sat on the bed and removed his shoes leaving the two shoe prints at the end of the bed and the knife print on the bedspread. Then he went barefoot to the bathroom and washed up, returned to the bedroom and put his shoes back on before he left. Even his testimony says he went to the bathroom for towels to try and stop the bleeding from Meredith.

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Okay, we agree that Charlie's theory doesn't make much sense.

As for yours, why would Rudy take off his bloody shoes to wash his non-bloody feet (getting them bloody in the process and making the bathmat print)?

As for the fate of the shoes, according to your scenario, did he leave them in the bedroom while he went to the bathroom to freshen up, or did he take them with him?

 

[Katody Matrass]

Yes, another absurdity.

If he left bloody shoe prints all over, which he didn't bother to clean up, why would he remove them so he could also leave a bloody BARE footprints, that WERE cleaned up?

The shoeprints were faint enough that everyone, including ILE missed them on Nov 2.

There were no cleaned up bloody bare footprints. Why are you're making things up?

 

[Withnail1969]

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Okay, we agree that Charlie's theory doesn't make much sense.

As for yours, why would Rudy take off his bloody shoes to wash his non-bloody feet (getting them bloody in the process and making the bathmat print)?

As for the fate of the shoes, according to your scenario, did he leave them in the bedroom while he went to the bathroom to freshen up, or did he take them with him?

He wasn't washing his non-bloody feet, he was rinsing the bloodstains off his jeans and possibly the uppers of the shoes.

 

[RoseMontague]

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Okay, we agree that Charlie's theory doesn't make much sense.

As for yours, why would Rudy take off his bloody shoes to wash his non-bloody feet (getting them bloody in the process and making the bathmat print)?

As for the fate of the shoes, according to your scenario, did he leave them in the bedroom while he went to the bathroom to freshen up, or did he take them with him?

His bare footprint is on the bathmat so regardless if he brought his shoes with him or not, he had taken his shoes off. I think he took them with him and attempted to clean them so the blood was not clearly visible, failing to clean the bottoms very well or getting them bloody again when he went back to the bedroom to go through Meredith's purse.

 

[Kermit]

Rudy obviously would have made a bad serial killer

He wasn't washing his non-bloody feet, he was rinsing the bloodstains off his jeans and possibly the uppers of the shoes.

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I didn't realise that murderous thieves could be so scrupulous:

- you've got your bloody Nike Outbreak2 under the tap/faucet
- it's bloody on top, it's bloody on the sole
- you choose to carefully wash the bloody stains on the top, yet also carefully avoid getting any water on the rubber sole which could rinse it, thereby leaving enough blood to continue making shoeprints around the house
- while you're being meticulous about the above, you clumsily got your previously clean foot all bloody, and are standing on the bathmat

 

[Katody Matrass]

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Okay, we agree that Charlie's theory doesn't make much sense.

Still makes more sense than any theory of a ritual orgy with strangers ending with a killing with kitchen knife carried for protection.

As for yours, why would Rudy take off his bloody shoes to wash his non-bloody feet (getting them bloody in the process and making the bathmat print)?

Removing a shoe makes sense when you want to clean blood from a trousers leg, isn't it?

Again, any scenario of Rudy cleaning himself up is pure common sense compared to absurdities of Massei "reconstruction".

 

[Withnail1969]

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I didn't realise that murderous thieves could be so scrupulous:

- you've got your bloody Nike Outbreak2 under the facet
- it's bloody on top, it's bloody on the sole
- you choose to carefully wash the bloody stains on the top, yet also carefully avoid getting any water on the rubber sole which could rinse it, thereby leaving enough blood to continue making shoeprints around the house
- while you're being meticulous about the above, you clumsily got your previously clean foot all bloody, and are standing on the bathmat

Rudy didn't care about blood on the soles of his shoes, as it wasn't visible.

 

[Kermit]

Fiction is stranger than fiction

Rudy didn't care about blood on the soles of his shoes, as it wasn't visible.

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All of the visible Nike prints were made with invisible blood?

Kevin! Mary_H! I'll let you jump into the ring together, you don't have to tag each other off.

 

[RoseMontague]

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I didn't realise that murderous thieves could be so scrupulous:

- you've got your bloody Nike Outbreak2 under the facet
- it's bloody on top, it's bloody on the sole
- you choose to carefully wash the bloody stains on the top, yet also carefully avoid getting any water on the rubber sole which could rinse it, thereby leaving enough blood to continue making shoeprints around the house
- while you're being meticulous about the above, you clumsily got your previously clean foot all bloody, and are standing on the bathmat

Yet in the prosecution theory Amanda managed to leave only bloody footprints in other areas of the house. Where did the blood come from that made those prints? It would have to be Merediths's room if they were made with Meredith's blood. I guess she levitated or had magic glasses when she cleaned them up so she could see what only luminol would reveal then took off her magic glasses when she left Meredith's room and missed the other non-visible footprints in the hallway that were bloody from Meredith's blood but did not contain Meredith's DNA or even test positive for blood with the TMB test.

 

[RoseMontague]

Rudy didn't care about blood on the soles of his shoes, as it wasn't visible.

Exactly. Walking down the street at night, blood on the bottom of his shoes would not be noticed.

 

[Withnail1969]

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All of the visible Nike prints were made with invisible blood?

Kevin! Mary_H! I'll let you jump into the ring together, you don't have to tag each other off.

invisible to someone Rudy might encounter on his way home. I'm pretty sure you knew that's what i meant.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Yet in the prosecution theory Amanda managed to leave only bloody footprints in other areas of the house. Where did the blood come from that made those prints? It would have to be Merediths's room if they were made with Meredith's blood. I guess she levitated or had magic glasses when she cleaned them up so she could see what only luminol would reveal then took off her magic glasses when she left Meredith's room and missed the other non-visible footprints in the hallway that were bloody from Meredith's blood but did not contain Meredith's DNA or even test positive for blood with the TMB test.

We have yet to see any sensible theory by the guilters explaining the footprints. This is a touchy subject because there are no traces of any cleanup. Maybe Kermit would like to provide his version?

 

[Kermit]

visible to someone Rudy might encounter on his way home. I'm pretty sure you knew that's what i meant.

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Sorry, I don't understand (seriously).

Tell me, according to your theory, as Rudy washed the uppers of his Nike Outbreak's under the tap/faucet, in addition to seeing the blood on the uppers, was there visible blood on the soles?

((if this scene ever happened, I would think that there would still be abundant blood on his soles from that needed to make all the visible Nike prints .... althought to give you a way out, maybe he wiped his feet extra hard somewhere, and all the blood scraped clean before he took off his shoes to wash only the uppers, and that way he never noticed that there was blood on the soles))

 

[RoseMontague]

I have heard that Laura's and Filomena's interrogations/interviews were taped. Why not Amanda and Raffaele if that were the case? Does anyone have a link showing this information?