Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Mary_H]

I'm not taking a walk back from anything that I said.

The link with the Q's and 'answers' is there in my earlier post.
I'm happy with my Q's - you are obviously happy with your A's.

On that basis I'm happy to move on.

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All right, then. We will leave it at this:

As to the wider campaign in the English speaking world, from what I can see :a mendacious PR snow job with overtones of racism & xenophobia.

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[platonov]

Does anyone know if they searched Rudy's apt. for compatible knives? If so did they test them for blood and DNA? It seems very strange to me that of all the knives at the cottage, RS's and Rudy's apartment, they picked one to test and that one had MK's DNA.

Leaving aside your 'assumptions' it didn't seem so strange to RS.

He came up with a 'reason' for the DNA on the blade [after it was tested, not before, I hasten to add]

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[Withnail1969]

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Hi Windnail,

Sorry, I conclude from your comment that the only item of evidence to be wrapped up in this JREF discussion (since you deem that all other evidence which points to Amanda has been conclusively thrown out) is the Luminol footprints.

I wouldn't dare bring up an item which this group has decided to be passé, but since you have brought up Antonio Curatolo, I assume he can be discussed.

The issue has been dealt with. Domus and other bars in Perugia were open. There's no bus service to these bars since they are in Perugia. The disco buses did not run because the out of town discos were closed. This has been confirmed by a Perugia local, Frank.

 

[pilot padron]

Are you for real with *that* argument (or lack thereof) ??

My suspicion is that this knife is related to Raffaele saying he 'pricked' Meredith with a knife. Thus they didn't take that knife randomly, but went looking for it as it matched the description of the knife they thought Raffaele admitted to 'pricking' Meredith with.
They believed their own lie.

Really ?? Oh did they now ???

May I suggest you heed what one of your most esteemed colleagues says below as he tries to insult one of the three pro guilt posters still willing to attempt to discuss evidence here:

I don't know if you've read much of this thread, but the points you mention have all been discussed and dealt with at great length.

This is why the thread keeps going in circles - to you, and those like you, it's as though those extensive discussions never happened.
Now you expect to be able to declare Year Zero as though the preceding 20,000 posts never happened.

(FWIW, that particular pro guilt advocate being slurred has been posting here and other 'evidence based forums' *much* longer than nail's recent (sept) 'johnnie come lately' entrance here.
Additionally,his vast knowledge of the case is often quoted on many other more active, more prominent, and more respected 'evidence based' sites.)

But to your 'argument'
Is it irony, sarcasm, or some other literary device you are attempting to use that may be unfamiliar to your 'evidence based' readers ????

Surely as one who endlessly argues and applies critical thinking and skepticism to this 'evidence based community' your deeply imbedded pre conceived conspiracy blindness would not lead you to make such an absolutely astounding exhibition of *sub* superficial familiarity with the facts of the case....would it ??

Your 'argument's' display of super shallow familiarity with factual evidence completely invalidates the below typically pompous pontification of another of your esteemed colleagues who, although off topic, is attempting to denigrate other forums that he obviously envies (again)

Also we're the JREFers, not the Friends of Amanda. Different people. We take a rigorously evidence-based, science-first approach to problems like this unlike certain other internet communities interested in the case.

Finally, based on this argument of yours, may I respectfully suggest that in your 'evidence based' submissions here, you might want to avoid using such impolite and uncivil monikers such as your... 'beyond stupid'

Speculation to be sure, but it seems to make more sense to me than the random grab theory, that makes them look beyond stupid.

__________________

 

[TomCH]

The issue has been dealt with. Domus and other bars in Perugia were open. There's no bus service to these bars since they are in Perugia. The disco buses did not run because the out of town discos were closed. This has been confirmed by a Perugia local, Frank.

Actually, he only confirmed that they were closed on Nov. 1st of THIS year, NOT 2007!

 

[Withnail1969]

Actually, he only confirmed that they were closed on Nov. 1st of THIS year, NOT 2007!

No, you're wrong. I asked him this exact question and got the following response:

Would a Perugia local (i.e. Frank) please confirm for us that the discos Gradisca and Etoile 54 were closed on 1st November 2007, meaning that there were no disco buses on that night, thanks.

Frank Sfarzo said...

I can confirm that the big discotheques are closed on November 1st, and there weren't buses.
As is natural, since the discotheques work on the pre-holiday, not on the holiday, and to be filled they need a town full of students, not with the 80% of them gone home.
But Sollecito's team will bring documentation for it.

Btw, I remember to have asked Toto, at the beginning, why he remembered the masks and didn't remember the buses. He thought that he HAD to remember the opposite, so at the trial he didn't mention the masks but he mentioned the buses.

So, more than one year after our previous talk I congratulated to him for his testimony and I asked him why he remembered the buses.
At that point he understood that the buses were wrong too (but too late). And he answered that he was confused with the city buses....

But all this is useless. The truth is that people believe what they want to believe...

 

[christianahannah]

An article concerning the appeal hearing. I think November 24 will be for procedural issues and then court will resume on December 11.

How long is it anticipated the appeal trial will last? Bongiorno (Raffaele's attorney) is five months pregnant. Raffaele is represented by other attorneys, however, if the trial is still in session during her delivery will the trial be suspended until she is back?

http://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/2010/11/16/415233-processo.shtml

ETA: It appears Bongiorno will not be present for the first hearing.

 

[platonov]

The issue has been dealt with. Domus and other bars in Perugia were open. There's no bus service to these bars since they are in Perugia. The disco buses did not run because the out of town discos were closed. This has been confirmed by a Perugia local, Frank.

I'm not convinced that the Italian courts put as much stock in Frank Ask Frank as some on this thread do.

Perhaps the convicts should have tried Talk to Frank and they might have got their stories straight.

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[odeed]

We were talking about it earlier but the pro-guilt advocates here didn't engage with it in any intelligent way so it kind of dropped off the radar.

The defence seem to be saying that an error log (or something similar, I don't think any of us are 100% clear on all the technical details), properly analysed, shows that the screensaver on Raffaele's computer kicked in a few times between 9pm and 1am but never for longer than six minutes, indicating that the computer was in more or less constant use for one purpose or another throughout that time.

....

A discussion about screensaver logs that you accepted as gospel from the start with little or no debate, and it was pointed out that the later that the 12 hour time period in question (6pm to 6am, not the 9pm-1am you state) of alleged human activity on the laptop did not correspond to the alibi/testimony of Knox, then the discussion ended.

They sure seemed to zero in on Patrick Lumumba, and then wouldn't let him go for three weeks despite the fact that several people came forward to provide an ironclad alibi within days of his arrest.

That kind of suggests Perugia is a bad place to be black when the police come looking for suspects. It brings to mind that of the four people arrested all were 'outsiders' from the perspective of locals.

Lumumba was arrested after Knox implicated him in the murder, and this happened after Knox discovered that Sollecito was no longer providing her with an alibi. He was released when no physical evidence was found and a credible witness came forward to back up his alibi.

 

[Katody Matrass]

A discussion about screensaver logs that you accepted as gospel from the start with little or no debate, and it was pointed out that the later that the 12 hour time period in question (6pm to 6am, not the 9pm-1am you state) of alleged human activity on the laptop did not correspond to the alibi/testimony of Knox, then the discussion ended.

Their alibi is they stayed home together. How does using a computer on that location doesn't correspond to that alibi?

Lumumba was arrested after Knox implicated him in the murder, and this happened after Knox discovered that Sollecito was no longer providing her with an alibi. He was released when no physical evidence was found and a credible witness came forward to back up his alibi.

Do you have a theory why would Amanda accuse Lumumba instead of Rudy? And why would she place herself at the murder scene in the course of that accusation? I haven't seen any sensible explanation for this from the guilters.

 

[platonov]

Their alibi is they stayed home together. How does using a computer on that location doesn't correspond to that alibi?

This was explained a few pages back, but its a moot point in any case.

Do you have a theory why would Amanda accuse Lumumba instead of Rudy? And why would she place herself at the murder scene in the course of that accusation? I haven't seen any sensible explanation for this from the guilters.

You must have missed the 2 recent references to the Q on this very issue put forward by PL's lawyer.

And indeed the earlier issue of the 'Confusion & Frustration' on Dec 17 2007 when AK was asked this very question which led to the interrogation being terminated by AK - which is surprising as you actually posted AK's own testimony on this very issue.

ETA 'Why would Amanda accuse Lumumba instead of Rudy?' - Why indeed ?? Thats a 3 pipe problem

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[Chris_Halkides]

the favor of a response is requested

Kermit,

Now that you are back, would you mind responding to these comments?
3035
and
3352

 

[Katody Matrass]

As for a "random grab", if you look a images of Raffaele's kitchen cutlery drawer, you'll see that the Double DNA knife was the only one which could have been a useful weapon. Otherwise there was a bread knife and unthreatening normal table knives.

I wonder how many knives from Rudy's apartment they tested. And how many too low results they got on each of them before they gave up.

Again, please review the facts. If the police "zeroed in" on Patrick, it was because Amanda had (falsely) accused him.

Interesting, but couldn't it be that they already had phone records showing their text exchange of Nov 1? Maybe "Lumumba did it" was the "fact" that ILE already knew to be correct. After all Perugia police chief said

"she buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them all in".​

How did they know those facts were correct? What evidence did they have to check her confession against apart from the phone billings and possible black hairs at that time?

 

[daydreamer]

As for a "random grab", if you look a images of Raffaele's kitchen cutlery drawer, you'll see that the Double DNA knife was the only one which could have been a useful weapon. Otherwise there was a bread knife and unthreatening normal table knives.

Raffaele was a knife collector, there had to have been many more knives in his apartment, some of which could be use as a useful weapon.

 

[Justinian2]

I've always wondered if Amanda didn't think that Lumumba and Guede were the same person. It's commonly true that people that haven't lived with people of another race sometimes have recognition problems; they look all the same.

Maybe Amanda saw Guede a couple of times and thought he was Lumumba. I don't think Amanda was in Perugia long enough to differentiate between the two.

After Amanda worked for Lumumba for a week she must have recognized him...

Link to Guede
Link to Guede
Link to Lumumba

Ok, maybe not. There is a considerable difference in appearance between the two. You'd have to be stoned to confuse the two.

 

[Withnail1969]

Raffaele was a knife collector, there had to have been many more knives in his apartment, some of which could be use as a useful weapon.

Raffaele's other knives were checked and no DNA was found.

 

[platonov]

Raffaele was a knife collector, there had to have been many more knives in his apartment, some of which could be use as a useful weapon.

Indeed, well spotted - it has been speculated that 1 of them made the smaller wound !

But you must have missed my earlier post - your assumption that only 1 knife was tested is false. You may need to review the evidence.

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[platonov]

I've always wondered if Amanda didn't think that Lumumba and Guede were the same person. It's commonly true that people that haven't lived with people of another race sometimes have recognition problems; they look all the same.

Maybe Amanda saw Guede a couple of times and thought he was Lumumba. I don't think Amanda was in Perugia long enough to differentiate between the two.

After Amanda worked for Lumumba for a week she must have recognized him...

Link to Guede
Link to Guede
Link to Lumumba

Ok, maybe not. There is a considerable difference in appearance between the two. You'd have to be stoned to confuse the two.

I hope your not suggesting that all black guys looked the same to AK.

That will not go down well here - she is tipped to be the next Nelson Mandela

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[Katody Matrass]

Raffaele's other knives were checked and no DNA was found.

I wonder if they were checked as thoroughly as the kitchen knife - with all the pseudo-LCN and too lows. I have a feeling that with the kitchen knife they gave Stefanono a clear suggestion - "we're out of knives and nothing so far. Do something, crank up that machine of yours! This time it MUST be positive or we're busted".

 

[Chris_Halkides]

reluctantly

Good, some agreement at last, you accept at [a minimum] mendacity on the FOAker side.

I am happy to let Mary H explain precisely what her own words mean, should she choose to do so.
They stand as they are for the moment and she seems content to rest [as do I]

platonov,

With a heavy heart, I accept that there has been mendacity on the pro-guilt side.