Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris C]

In order to comment on this case you need to have the following qualifications:-

Doctor of Medicine, Forensic Pathology, Psychology, Psychiatry, Criminal Law, International Law, Italian Law, Locksmithing, Computer Science, Computer Forensics, Rock Throwing, Climbing, Basketball, Chemistry, Physics and Crime Scene Cleanup

If you do not have this skillset, please do not comment, thanks.

You forgot rapist, burglar, nutcase, ninja, street bum, audiologist, sex therapist.

 

[quadraginta]

Why did Dr. Sollecito not move the network that was at his disposal to get Raffaele out of prison?

I expect he is on the wrong conspiracy track. Membership in the Vast International Italian Masonic Conspiracy does not guarantee reciprocal privileges with the Vast International Perugia Police Mafia Conspiracy. Various efforts at inter-Vast International Conspiracy agreements have been attempted, but with little success. They guard their perogatives jealously.

 

[Justinian2]

For those that think a PD led to this brutal murder, I've found the exact PD. It's called the Normal Disorder and tragically afflicts as many as 9625 out of every 10,000 individuals.

DSN-IV (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of 'Normal' Disorders)
Personality Disorders
301.666 Normal Personality Disorder
Meets qualification for at least two of the following criteria:
A. Egocentrism (at least one of the following):
1. Egocentric perspective (e.g. fails to realize that others may have a different perspective, needs, nature, or experiences from his or her self)
2. Egomania (e.g. acts or talks as though better or more important than peers or others)
3. Selfishness (either of both of the following)
a. Marked greed or covetousness
b. Domineering or "bossy" attitude
B. Lack of originality (at least one of the following):
1. Rigidly follows traditions or social rituals
2. Is often "faddish," follow the latest fads, fashions, or "crazes" invented or set by others
3. Often demonstrates a "herd mentality" (e.g. thoughtlessly follows a social reference group or a local group of friends, often gives into "peer pressure")
C. Lack of Sympathy (one or both of the following):
1. Cruel or callous towards the feeling of others (e.g. engages in teasing or ridiculing other, plays potentially harmful "practical jokes" on unsuspecting victims who are unlikely to be amused)
2. Often Manipulative (e.g. uses others as tools to towards own goals, treats others as objects which may be acquired for own satisfaction, uses dishonesty as convenient way to achieve social goals)


Description
An incredibly prevalent disorder, Normal Personality is dangerous and often chronic. Normal Personalities are primarily marked by conformity (either to tradition or to "fads"), self-centered attitudes and behavior, and a general lack of genuine caring for others.

Normal Personality often appears to begin early in life. As children, they are often excessively aggressive and cruel. They commonly believe they must have the latest toy from a commercial, or wear the latest fashion. Often Normal children have trouble with possessive pronouns, and [...]
​

http://isnt.autistics.org/dsn-npd-txt.html

I hope you've caught on by now...
I have to go to the theater.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Bohemian Grove

I expect he is on the wrong conspiracy track. Membership in the Vast International Italian Masonic Conspiracy does not guarantee reciprocal privileges with the Vast International Perugia Police Mafia Conspiracy. Various efforts at inter-Vast International Conspiracy agreements have been attempted, but with little success. They guard their perogatives jealously.

Freeing these two may take Colin Powell's cashing in a few favors with his fellow worshippers of Molech at Bohemian Grove.

post script
Please do not take this as a serious suggestion.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Daniel's statement

treehorn,

Daniel said, "Da quel girono non ho piu' *rivisto ne' sentito Amanda, della quale peraltro non posseggo neanche il numero del cellulare, ne le altre ragazze. Ne ho avuto occasione di ritornare a Perugia a trovare**i miei amici"
*
Roughly translated, this means "From that day, I neither saw nor spoke to Amanda, whose cell phone number I didn't have, nor that of the other girls. I had no other opportunity to return to Perugia to visit my friends".*

I hope this settles the matter of Daniel's one night stand.

 

[Amazer]

How would Amanda or the rest of the family escape Italy if her family took a flat in Perugia and guaranteed she wouldn't abscond? Do you think they might have some issues at the airport maybe?

Like, 'Name'? 'Knox'

'Wait a minute, that rings a bell somewhere'...

Uhm.... there's no passport control at the Italian border with France, Switzerland and Australia among others. What's to stop her from leaving Italy and approaching a US embassy in those countries?

 

[Amazer]

Amazer,

You misunderstood my question. Between November of 2007 and October of 2008, neither Raffaele nor Amanda had been formally charged. Therefore, calling him a suspect is not quite right, IMHO. This is the period of time at issue in Mr. Sayagh's manuscript.

The problem remains the same. A simple house arrest will not guarantee that AK or RS will actually remain in Italy.

 

[Withnail1969]

Uhm.... there's no passport control at the Italian border with France, Switzerland and Australia among others. What's to stop her from leaving Italy and approaching a US embassy in those countries?

I think there are still customs border checks, and obviously if Amanda is supposed to be in Perugia but is not there there will be a full alert. Maybe the Perugia police might even be watching to ensure she doesn't leave Perugia.

What would the US Embassy do? Give her a new passport and fly her home?

 

[Withnail1969]

Uhm.... there's no passport control at the Italian border with France, Switzerland and Australia among others. What's to stop her from leaving Italy and approaching a US embassy in those countries?

colossal LOL. Could you just pinpoint on a map the Italian border with Australia? Thank you very much.

 

[Amazer]

I think there are still customs border checks

Really? Where?

and obviously if Amanda is supposed to be in Perugia but is not there there will be a full alert.

The border is at the most about 6 hours away, and that's a conservative estimate. Considering that, how effective do you think that an alert would be?

Maybe the Perugia police might even be watching to ensure she doesn't leave Perugia.

Right, i'm sure that the Perugia Police has extra manpower to execute such a task.

What would the US Embassy do? Give her a new passport and fly her home?

Wouldn't they give her a new passport?

 

[Amazer]

colossal LOL. Could you just pinpoint on a map the Italian border with Australia? Thank you very much.

Oops... make that Austria...


Grumbles something about not posting when drinking.

 

[Withnail1969]

R


Right, i'm sure that the Perugia Police has extra manpower to execute such a task.

Like one cop watching the flat would be too much. Obviously if Edda allowed Amanda to escape, she herself would be arrested.

Wouldn't they give her a new passport?

No. She would be arrested at the airport even if they did, which they wouldn't.

 

[platonov]

Platonov,

You are ignoring the fact that Ms. Dempsey has been a journalist for about thirty years. She worked for The Chicago Tribune (go Cubs!), and she has written a number of business articles and won a number of awards. It was Ms. Nadeau who chose to title her book Angel Face, a title even she acknowledges as provocative.

That's 10 mins of my life well spent - I could have been composing a savage and witty satire on the pretensions of gargoyles, now lost forever.

But you were right, I had been ignoring the 'fact' you drew my attention to.
Puff pieces about 'town planners' - an output [over 30 yrs ?] lower in quantity & quality than posters on some forums manage in 30 days and 30 minutes respectively.

She is not even a hack, itself hardly a noble calling - that 'piglet has been juiced'.

Not that this addresses the main point in any case.

.

 

[LondonJohn]

And those are the only circumstances in which a judge can order detention?


Given the rather poor reputation of the USA with regard to the extradiction of its own citizens and add to that that travel within the European Union does not require a passport and that there are other US embassies within the EU where Amanda could have applied for a new passport; and I think it should be abundantly clear that detention in prison was the only reasonable option.

Aaaaand...you're factually incorrect. You're obviously not familiar with travelling within the European Union. A passport or driver's licence is most definitely needed for travel between EU countries: the "Schengen" Agreement abolished internal border controls, but every person crossing from one EU member state to another has to produce identification. Knox would not have been able to cross the border from Italy to any other EU member state without producing her passport or an international drivers' licence.

And in any case, all new applications for passports would be centrally checked against a database, so - for example - the US Embassy in Paris doesn't just issue a replacement passport off its own bat - it has to be centrally checked and ratified. Therefore, if there was a stop on passport re-issuance to her, that would apply to any US Embassy worldwide.

So, to borrow a phrase from Machiavelli: you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[platonov]

Freeing these two may take Colin Powell's cashing in a few favors with his fellow worshippers of Molech at Bohemian Grove.

post script
Please do not take this as a serious suggestion.

That's a postscript that should be taken as read with many of the arguments here. I find it helps.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

more on Ms. Nadeau and Newsweek

Treehorn,

Here is a bit more on the question of Ms. Nadeau’s reporting for Newsweek.

Ms. Nadeau wrote, “But it is not just Knox's inconsistencies and fingerprints that Italian authorities are using to build the case against her. The judge's report includes cell phone records indicating that Knox sent a message to Lumumba earlier that evening, telling him her roommate was home and "see you later." Closed-circuit TV footage from a nearby parking garage shown on RAI television clearly shows the 20-year-old American entering the apartment the night of the murder.”

The messages Amanda sent Patrick said nothing about Meredith. Perhaps katy_did or another commenter can bring me up to speed, but the person in the footage may be Meredith, IIRC.

 

[LondonJohn]

I expect he is on the wrong conspiracy track. Membership in the Vast International Italian Masonic Conspiracy does not guarantee reciprocal privileges with the Vast International Perugia Police Mafia Conspiracy. Various efforts at inter-Vast International Conspiracy agreements have been attempted, but with little success. They guard their perogatives jealously.

I'm guessing that your cheap sarcasm is aimed at Machiavelli rather than Mary_H, since it was Machiavelli who made the ludicrous statement that Sollecito Senior had the "capability of move (sic) a network at his disposal".

 

[LondonJohn]

Uhm.... there's no passport control at the Italian border with France, Switzerland and Australia among others. What's to stop her from leaving Italy and approaching a US embassy in those countries?

Wrong. 100% wrong. (as before).

PS I went to Germany on business last week (from the UK), and I hired a car and drove to Paris to see a friend and flew back from there. My passport was inspected and swiped every time I crossed a national border (UK-Germany, Germany-France, France-UK), usually by the country I was about to enter. And I have been skiing in Switzerland by flying into Milan and driving over the border into Switzerland, and I can categorically assure everyone that my passport was required at the Italian-Swiss border.

 

[platonov]

Oops... make that Austria...


Grumbles something about not posting when drinking.

Wait, you sometimes post 'here' [2 girls/1 bra, cartwheel fascist world] when not drinking ??

Good luck with that !

.

 

[Amazer]

Aaaaand...you're factually incorrect. You're obviously not familiar with travelling within the European Union. A passport or driver's licence is most definitely needed for travel between EU countries: the "Schengen" Agreement abolished internal border controls, but every person crossing from one EU member state to another has to produce identification. Knox would not have been able to cross the border from Italy to any other EU member state without producing her passport or an international drivers' licence.

Really? We'll enlighten me LJ, where and when have you been asked to produce your passport or drivers license when crossing over from one EU member state to another? I know that I've been driving from Holland to Italy a number of times over the years (since 1988) without ever having my id papers checked at any of the border crossings. Those routes over the years included driving from Holland through Belgium, Luxembourg and France or Germany and then Switzerland or Austria.

I do agree that when requested anyone should be able to produce a passport or drivers license but the reality is that those requests are almost never made.

And in any case, all new applications for passports would be centrally checked against a database, so - for example - the US Embassy in Paris doesn't just issue a replacement passport off its own bat - it has to be centrally checked and ratified. Therefore, if there was a stop on passport re-issuance to her, that would apply to any US Embassy worldwide.

Well, my faith and confidence that the US will do the right thing isn't quite as strong as it once was. So I would err on the side of caution too and put AK in prison till this mess was sorted out.

So, to borrow a phrase from Machiavelli: you don't know what you're talking about.

Right back at ya