Merged No Planes At WTC (Split from: WTC Dust)

Status
Not open for further replies.
DGM said:
So you also believe a bird is tougher the aluminum?
Click to expand...

Aluminium is a very soft maleable metal. I am not surprised that a bird can damage it. But whether the bird's body would damage an aluminium plane with panels as thin as 1mm more than multiple heavy-duty steel box columns would is the real problem.
 
bill smith said:
Aluminium is a very soft maleable metal. I am not surprised that a bird can damage it. But whether the bird's body would damage an aluminium plane with panels as thin as 1mm more than multiple heavy-duty steel box columns would is the real problem.
Click to expand...
Can water cut steel?
 
Every time one of the no-planers makes the "they shoulda bounced off" claim I imagine the plane hitting the side of the building, compressing slightly, then snapping into shape and bouncing back with a loud "BOING".
 
Dragonrock said:
Okay, why post that picture?
Click to expand...

I just wanted to show that the plane would never ever have penetrated the 33 steel box columns without multiple panels and other parts fluttering down the front of the building. There was NO falling debris from the plane to be seen in case you didn't know.
 
Last edited:
bill smith said:
AS long as the pressure is kept constant and extremely high water can be made to cut steel through a fine jet.
Click to expand...
How is that possible? Water is much "softer" then steel. Can you explain?

Wouldn't it follow, if a plane was going fast enough...........
 
Last edited:
bill smith said:
Obviously because it was much softer than steel. If it had been made of steel the plane would have been undamaged. Didn't you see what happened at the WTC when the plane hit all those heavy steel box columns ? Like butter through a hot knife it was..
Click to expand...

And the plane came out, completely undamaged, from the other side, right? :rolleyes:
 
I also would like to know why water, which is comprised of a combination of gasses, can also cut through steel.
 
DGM said:
How is that possible? Water is much "softer" then steel. Can you explain?
Click to expand...

Put simply...an extremely high pressure jet focussed on a very small area with the pressure kept constant. If you need more information look it up. I do not intend to play the dilution/distraction game with you DGM.
 
Last edited:
excaza said:
And the plane came out, completely undamaged, from the other side, right? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I am only interested in the initial seamless penetration of the plane through the massive steel barrier at this time..
 
Last edited:
If the aircraft never crashed where are they? Where are the passengers and crew members?
 
bill smith said:
I am only imterested in the initial seamless penetration of the plane through the massive steel barrier at this time..
Click to expand...

Should they have bounced off? Pancaked? What?

A human hand can go through concrete undamaged, explain again why an airplane can't go through a beam?
 
bill smith said:
Put simply...an extremely high pressure jet focussed on a very small area with the pressure kept constant. If you need more information look it up. I do not intend to play the dilution/distraction game with you DGM.
Click to expand...
No game. Would it not follow that if a plane was going fast enough it would penetrate the building?
 
bill smith said:
I just wanted to show that the plane would never ever have penetrated the 33 steel box columns without multiple panels and other parts fluttering down the front of the building. There was NO falling debris from the plane to be seen in case you didn't know.
Click to expand...

You are aware that all the bits of the plane were going 500mph, not just certain parts. So, in order for even the smallest part to flutter down would require stopping it from 500 mph to 0 in basically no space. So where did all that energy go? Plus, the steel is going to take damage, it's just a matter of how much. So even if the nose collapsed, it still would have bent the steel just a little, then the next bit of the plane would come and bend the steel more. Eventually the bits of the plane would have broken through the steel while there was still several dozen feel of tube still moving at roughly 500 mph. Once through the outside you're in the open space that is the offices and the bits of the front of the plane, now less like a plane and more like a shotgun blast would fly through the space ripping drywall to shreds. Then, thousands of gallons of fuel would splatter all over the place and set furniture and paperwork and carpeting on fire so even after the fuel was gone, the fire would continue. And since the fireproofing on the supports was normally just a spray on gypsum slurry with all the strength of drywall, the airplane/shotgun blast would have removed vast portions of it. The burning office supplies would heat the internal columns up enough that even though they wouldn't melt, they would lose enough of their strength that the part of the tower above the damaged area would be too much weight for the columns to bear and would start moving down. After that nothing shy of the earth itself was going to stop the kinetic energy of 100s of thousands of tons of concrete and steel.
 
excaza said:
Should they have bounced off? Pancaked? What?

A human hand can go through concrete undamaged, explain again why an airplane can't go through a beam?
Click to expand...

Yes, the plane should have crushed itself against the Box column barrier doing some local damage to the building and then fallen away.
 
As for the aircraft bouncing off.

It's all to do with energy.

Paper and Card Wadding from a blank round fired at close range can penetrate a wooden plank. Card 'concentrators' used in shotgun cartridges to keep the spread of shot to a minimum will also penetrate an inch of timber at 30 yards. They are softer than the wood.

A wax Candle can be fired from a Shotgun and penetrate an inch or two of timber. Wax is softer than wood.
 
DGM said:
No game. Would it not follow that if a plane was going fast enough it would penetrate the building?
Click to expand...

Let me put it this way. The plane weighed one three-hundredth of one percent the weight of the building. That weight was spread out over an area almost as large as the width and depth of the building. Some of the aluminium was as thin as 1mm . You couldn't quite roll a cigarette in it but pretty damn close.

So no, at 590 mph the plane in toto could not have entered the building.

....and it has to be all or you are done..
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom