Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kaosium]

So basically we can't draw any conclusions from this data. Why is somebody on this forum apparently claiming that the same pattern of the screensaver activating every 5 minutes took place for the entire night? I'm confused.

You and me both.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

both false and misleading comments about the DNA testing

On what basis are you claiming ILE did not give "sufficient" notice to the defense?

You're aware that missing DNA tests only to complain about them, during the trial, in front of 12 'unwashed' lay people, is a standard tactic by defense lawyers, are you not?

treehorn,

Giving the defense the opportunity to observe testing is, according to an expert, of very little value, as I have previously documented here. The testing was done on 9 November in Rome, and the defense was only notified the morning of, according to Chris Mellas. I am inclined to say that your claim that missing the tests was a tactic is both wrong and misleading. Misleading because it seeks to divert attention away from the real issues which are the faulty collection techniques and substandard LCN testing done on two key pieces of evidence. Those have been amply documented and discussed here. I suggest liberal use of the search function to find these messages.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sounds like a really good alibi but your convincement has not fully succeeded in my case, at least to this point. Can you tell what type of interaction caused each screensaver activation to engage (movement of the mouse/cursor for example)?

The screensaver is engaged automatically after 5 minutes of inactivity, unless prevented from activating by other applications.
The interactions in the cited periods of time are obviously related to the period of listening of a sequence of music files on application like iTunes, since there is trace of such listenings. So there is a movemnt of the mouse and a file opening.
But the cited intruptions are after 6:00 am. I don't know if such periods of "activity" also occur around the time frame closer to the likely murder time (21:30-23:30), and I dn't know how frequent they are in the more interesting time, but if there are they are not mentioned in the document pages published on Tgcom site.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

witness statement

Are you saying that Nadeau did not merely report/ write on the basis of evidence adduced at trial in respect of daniel?

treehorn,

I am saying that Daniel's witness statement makes clear that he was not even in Perugia at that time. Much of what is in Ms. Nadeau's book was not part of the trial.

 

[Dan O.]

Do you know what time on Nov 1, the downloading started and ended of Stardust?
Could it be downloading while they watched the Amelie movie? Or eating dinner?

Massie says Stardust was downloaded in the afternoon of the 1st. Raffaele was using peer-to-peer file sharing so it would have been downloaded in the background, they could have been doing anything or nothing on the computr at the time.

Is it normal to download movies, while watching movies? I never have done this and is why I'm confused.

It seems that would be taxing on the CPU. How long would it take on Sollecitos Mac to download Stardust, and does it require human interaction, after its downloaded, to press "complete" or "end" etc..? Would there be information, from the source of the Stardust files site or computer, for example, that would offer information?

Downloading movies primarily takes network bandwidth. I don't know how fast Raffaele's network was. It probably took several hours to download a full movie at high resolution. The download completes on it's own and any other downloads that have been requested will begin without human interaction.

The peer network is just other users like Raffaele. There isn't a central server and they tend not to keep records of where files are being shared to/from to avoid legal entanglements when someone says there was a copyright violation.

Its common to hear or read that we musty physically destroy a harddrive to remove all certainty of privacy and information, and that "experts" can retrieve data off the harddrive with almost "magical means". Is this old folklore and untrue? When actually this case seems to state its very easy to erase access time stamps; one only has to overwrite it like they did on Nov 6.

Just deleting a file is like loosing the card that tells you where to find a book in the library. The book is still on the shelf and if you searched through every shelf you would eventually find it. Burning the book won't necessarily remove all the information that was in the book because other users of the library could have made copies of the pages and left them on the shelves between other books. The only way to be sure is to burn down the entire library.

On the other hand, you can't count on being able to find copies of specific pages after they have been erased and overwritten with new information.


I had a chance to talk to a data recovery expert last week and he said that in his expert opinion the data on this drive was permanently erased...

This is an example of a library that burned down, fell over and then sank into the swamp.

 

[Mary_H]

Hello RWVBWL,
<snip>
I think every healthy person on the planet enjoys their sexuality. Enjoyment of one's sexualtity is not the point, however. The point is that Amanda's sexual activity appears to have undergone a dramatic shift around the time she left for Perugia.

She well nigh doubled her number of sex partners in the span of just 5 weeks. There is evidence that she had sex (including unprotected sex) with at least 3 Italian strangers in the span of 5 weeks.

By any objective measure this is both promiscuous and reckless. Ergo it comports with the notion that antisocial PD (or some other serious psychological/ psychiatric malady) was emerging in the weeks and months leading up to the murder.

Ditto for the antisocial and unlawful conduct that resulted in a brush with the Seattle police, a public record on file with the Muncipal Court of Seattle and a conviction for "Residential Disturbance" under the Seattle Municipal Code.

Ditto for the antisocial, anti-Semetic taunting of a Jewish coworker in Seattle (the story remains un-retracted).

Ditto for the "rape prank" of an unsuspecting roommate in Seattle (if true).

Ditto for the decision to blow off the German internship on a whim.

Ditto for (unlawful) under-age drinking and the (unlawful) use and abuse of illicit narcotics to the point of memory loss. (And, yes, memory blanks/ loss = abuse.)

Ditto for assaulting/murdering an innocent young woman (per the triers in the trial of first instance).

Ditto for the antisocial behavior in the police HQ.

Ditto for bearing false witness against an innocent man.

Ditto for her refusal to recant her false accusation of that man.

Ditto for the disrespectful/ antisocial/ narcissistic/ nonchalant conduct in the courtroom.

Ditto for the "Marie Pace" story.

Ditto for the disingenuous PR games, including the "Interviews with Rocco" fiasco.

"Cruelty to animals" is probably the ONLY characteristic of antisocial PD that Knox has not displayed (although there was a bleeding cat, was there not? I'm kidding...sort of...).

As for "trickery" by the Italian police, it seems that you are unaware that "trickery" of suspects by agents of the state is, with good reason, sanctioned by the US Supreme Court.

As for "leaks"/ disclosure/ freedom of information/ the public's right to know, I might well ask you (if you're an American) how many details of Casey Anthony's life (sexual or otherwise) you've been made aware of since her arrest (before a body had even been discovered) in 2008. You'll note that she, too, has not yet been convicted as her trial will not even begin until late Spring 2011.

Wow, you're really devoted to this, aren't you?

I notice with a sense of irony that you bring up the ninth commandment in this post, treehorn. Given your inability or refusal to provide any supporting evidence for most of your claims against Amanda, it had become clear to your reading audience that the claims are false. How do you reconcile that with your rigid personal moral code? Or does morality apply only to other people?

As for your compulsion to repeat the phrase, "a conviction for "Residential Disturbance" under the Seattle Municipal Code," and similar phrases, I simply assumed you have some kind of learning disability that renders you oblivious to new or dissonant information, but someone else here suggested you're doing it just to increase the number of times that subject matter, along with the word "conviction," makes it to the Internet.

 

[Kaosium]

yes I agree...thanks Dan O. That's interesting about how this software works.

Do you know what time on Nov 1, the downloading started and ended of Stardust?
Could it be downloading while they watched the Amelie movie? Or eating dinner?

I'm just curious.

Is it normal to download movies, while watching movies? I never have done this and is why I'm confused.

You're asking the wrong guy about the software details, I know how to play with computers, I can even swap out hardware components, but I just found out for the first time yesterday there's a way I can watch a movie uninterrupted by the screensaver (outside just turning it off) without periodically touching the track pad or whatever it is called.

As for the question above, in his diaries Raffaele didn't think he was online during the time of the murder.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Ms. Nadeau's record

SNIP
I think her [Nadeau's] record speaks for itself.
SNIP

treehorn,

At last we can agree on something. Her many errors in this case suggest to me that she can misunderstand people in more than one language.

 

[RoseMontague]

The screensaver is engaged automatically after 5 minutes of inactivity, unless prevented from activating by other applications.
The interactions in the cited periods of time are obviously related to the period of listening of a sequence of music files on application like iTunes, since there is trace of such listenings. So there is a movemnt of the mouse and a file opening.
But the cited intruptions are after 6:00 am. I don't know if such periods of "activity" also occur around the time frame closer to the likely murder time (21:30-23:30), and I dn't know how frequent they are in the more interesting time, but if there are they are not mentioned in the document pages published on Tgcom site.

valga il vero

Perhaps an expert review will be granted and the truth determined.

 

[odeed]

the logs which have been released show a short period in the early morning of Nov 2nd from 6 am to 6:22 am where the screensaver activated for about 5 minutes at a time every 5 minutes.

Machiavelli seems to be claiming that this same exact pattern pertained for the preceding 12 hours. Obviously this is wrong because during that period several videos were watched.

I think this is what is being claimed, I stand ready to be corrected.

Which films did they watch for 12 hours, from what I remember the alibi was that they talked, watched a film, ate dinner, cleaned up the spilt water, had sex then slept.

And for the twelve hours the screensaver did not activate which somehow proves there was human interaction on the laptop?

 

[christianahannah]

treehorn,

Giving the defense the opportunity to observe testing is, according to an expert, of very little value, as I have previously documented here. The testing was done on 9 November in Rome, and the defense was only notified the morning of, according to Chris Mellas. I am inclined to say that your claim that missing the tests was a tactic is both wrong and misleading. Misleading because it seeks to divert attention away from the real issues which are the faulty collection techniques and substandard LCN testing done on two key pieces of evidence. Those have been amply documented and discussed here. I suggest liberal use of the search function to find these messages.

The motivations states this concerning testing of samples. While observing may be of little value it appears it was done by the defense.

Page 245:

The Public Prosecutor pointed out that all the tests had been carried out under Article 360 of the Criminal Procedure Code and a lawyer or a consultant for the defence was always present at every stage of these tests and no objection and/or request had been put forward in those stages.

Also, there was a court order given (page 245) for the handing over of documentation as requested by the defense and the trial suspended until this order was completed (and to give time for the defense experts to review the documentation). Is it known what specifically the defense is asking for now concerning documentation not received?

 

[Matthew Best]

Which films did they watch for 12 hours, from what I remember the alibi was that they talked, watched a film, ate dinner, cleaned up the spilt water, had sex then slept.

And for the twelve hours the screensaver did not activate which somehow proves there was human interaction on the laptop?

See how much confusion there is about this? It seems nobody knows what they're talking about.

 

[Withnail1969]

Which films did they watch for 12 hours, from what I remember the alibi was that they talked, watched a film, ate dinner, cleaned up the spilt water, had sex then slept.

And for the twelve hours the screensaver did not activate which somehow proves there was human interaction on the laptop?

During the preceding 12 hours they watched Amelie, an episode of Naruto, and possibly Stardust. I doubt they would have watched anything with the screensaver kicking in every 5 minutes. VLC media player may have overridden the screensaver if the relevant command-line option was set. We have no idea whether or not the screensaver activated until 6:00 am on the 2nd November on the information provided so far.

 

[Mary_H]

See how much confusion there is about this? It seems nobody knows what they're talking about.

Everybody wants to split hairs about what the two of them did that night simply in order to call them liars. We need to keep in mind that by the time they were actually recounting what they did that night, they had spent three additional nights together, probably engaged in activities similar to what they had done on the night of the 1st.

Amanda acknowledged that when she had written about them showering together and Raffaele cleaning her ears, she had gotten it mixed up with a different night (one before the murder, if I remember correctly).

 

[Kaosium]

See how much confusion there is about this? It seems nobody knows what they're talking about.

They could be just funning us. Perhaps Machiavelli is showing the first sign of a sense of humor. As he's probably the only one who can both read Italian and understand the computer jargon, maybe someone is enjoying watching us run around in circles defending the idea of that computer being in continuous use outside of a maximum of a six minute intervals...

 

[christianahannah]

Everybody wants to split hairs about what the two of them did that night simply in order to call them liars. We need to keep in mind that by the time they were actually recounting what they did that night, they had spent three additional nights together, probably engaged in activities similar to what they had done on the night of the 1st.

Amanda acknowledged that when she had written about them showering together and Raffaele cleaning her ears, she had gotten it mixed up with a different night (one before the murder, if I remember correctly).

I would assume they were asked during their pre-November 5-6 interrogations by police what their activities were the day and night of Meredith's murder. I forget how many times they were at the Questera being questioned. Those answers may or may not conflict with answers given later.

I think Amanda wrote about Raffaele cleaning her ears in her November 6 memorial and didn't give an exact date but thought it might have been the night of November 1 (she wasn't sure, though). Did Amanda mention this elsewhere?

 

[Withnail1969]

They could be just funning us. Perhaps Machiavelli is showing the first sign of a sense of humor. As he's probably the only one who can both read Italian and understand the computer jargon, maybe someone is enjoying watching us run around in circles defending the idea of that computer being in continuous use outside of a maximum of a six minute intervals...

It would be interesting to look back through previous posts and see who actually originated this meme of the screensaver activating every 5 minutes for 12 hours.

 

[Mary_H]

I would assume they were asked during their pre-November 5-6 interrogations by police what their activities were the day and night of Meredith's murder. I forget how many times they were at the Questera being questioned. Those answers may or may not conflict with answers given later.

I think Amanda wrote about Raffaele cleaning her ears in her November 6 memorial and didn't give an exact date but thought it might have been the night of November 1 (she wasn't sure, though). Did Amanda mention this elsewhere?

Somebody mentioned it elsewhere, way back when.

If Amanda and Raffaele were questioned about their activities the night of the 1st in their initial police interviews, I think they probably needed only to sketch an outline that probably would not include mentions of sexual interaction.

 

[Justinian2]

May I extend my constructive criticism to the argument here that others 'on the same team' would use similar logical analysis before blindly rushing to defend any team mate's incessant annoying lack of on topic factual information that meaningfully contributes to the discussion.

In case you haven't noticed, this is an effort to define a social or normal personality in order to defend Amanda against charges of having a personality disorder of some type.

The book DSM III R is loaded with definitions of abnormal personalities, but few if any definitions of normal or social personalities.

I've been trying to find a list of social characteristics from a source that pleases the guilters. The guilters are NOT providing any help, they are just snipping at my heals. I have found two sources, but guilters reject both without finding one.

The reason I want this list of social characteristics from a reputable source is to refute the guilter's claim that Amanda had a personality disorder (PD). The guilters don't want to be refuted, so of course they attack my effort with slurs. Guilters are afraid that I might prove Amanda had a very social personality with fewer disorders than Massei, the police or the tabloids.

If Amanda didn't have a killer personality, then they would have to stop using personality disorders to justify their conclusion that she is guilty.

 

[Mary_H]

It would be interesting to look back through previous posts and see who actually originated this meme of the screensaver activating every 5 minutes for 12 hours.

Certain parties have been repeating that the screen saver was set to activate every five minutes, but I don't remember seeing the documentation.