Global Warmers Promote Dark Ages, Permanently

[DC]

More advanced solutions will become economical once we have the installed user base. We need to build the reactors first.

yeah you and your theoretical solutions.
people want a practical solution that seems to be safe and far away from their home. We are building more reactors. and Germany is running theirs longer as the people want. Not everyone thinks that oh well one day we will have a solution, so don't worry, keep going on.

the Nuclear Industry fails to deliver a solution.

 

[Fishstick]

yeah you and your theoretical solutions.
people want a practical solution that seems to be safe and far away from their home. We are building more reactors. and Germany is running theirs longer as the people want. Not everyone thinks that oh well one day we will have a solution, so don't worry, keep going on.

the Nuclear Industry fails to deliver a solution.

Because the Nuclear Industry gets so much political backing, right. Obviously dumping tons of radioactive fly ash in the air is an improvement over burying it in bombproof containers underground.

 

[Cleon]

yeah you and your theoretical solutions.
people want a practical solution that seems to be safe and far away from their home. We are building more reactors. and Germany is running theirs longer as the people want. Not everyone thinks that oh well one day we will have a solution, so don't worry, keep going on.

the Nuclear Industry fails to deliver a solution.

No, you're missing the point. It's not that we will have a solution, it's that we do have a solution; an expensive solution. And the reason it's so expensive is that there are so few reactors; build more, and the cost per ton to process the waste comes down.

It's not a matter of "theoretical" solutions, merely mathematical ones.

 

[tyr_13]

yeah sounds all easy, but still nowhere on this planet is there such a storage.
we first have to solve that problem before we create more waste without having a solution.

The US, Mongolia, Australia, North Africa...

 

[BenBurch]

The US, Mongolia, Australia, North Africa...

The South-Polar Plateau.

 

[elbe]

You must be misunderstanding what I was writing. Unless you want to argue that your definition of what theory means in the English language is more correct then what is printed in Merriam-Webster dictionary.

I think you were being obtuse by quoting all of the definitions given by Merriam-Webster. Like many words in English, Theory has a range of meanings in its use; but science has a somewhat more specific meaning it chooses to use to limit ambiguity.

I also, generally, dislike quoting dictionary definitions for scientific terminology (or any terminology from a specific field) because the dictionary, usually, just includes common usage while a field might have a more narrow, or even wildly different, use of a word. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Unabogie]

For medium to high doses, everyone understands that radiation is hazardous or fatally toxic.

It's low dose radiation where the work on hormesis is currently being applied.

Truth is, however, that hormesis has little to do with why I linked Dr. Cuttlers article. It's everything else in it aside from hormesis that I wanted lefty to see. I wanted Lefty to see that those who specialize in the field of radiations effects on living tissue do not share his ignorant "OHMIGODWE'REALLGUNNADIE" attitude towards nuclear energy.

So just so we're clear, you have no official medical or scientific body who sees hormesis as anything but woo. Google results come up with either those papers you cited, or whacked out woo sites promoting hormesis along with other "miracle cures".

 

[Trakar]

No paraphrasing; directly from the APS response to Lewis calling them money-grubbing charlatans.

Actually, it is still a rather poor paraphrase of the official APS statement regarding climate change, which is located on their website, and which I presented previously. It may not be your paraphrase, but as you didn't attribute a source or reference in that post, the only available options of describing your posted words left for me were plagarism or an inappropriately vague and improper paraphrasing of the full APS position statement, as you have now clarified the nature of your statement, I apologize for characterizing it as *your* paraphrase.

"Because the complexity of the climate makes accurate prediction difficult, the APS urges an enhanced effort to understand the effects of human activity on the Earth’s climate, .... ";

(...)

The rest, not so much.

So you do not agree with the full APS position statement? Once more for reference:

National Policy
07.1 CLIMATE CHANGE(Adopted by Council on November 18, 2007)

Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.

The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring.

If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.

Because the complexity of the climate makes accurate prediction difficult, the APS urges an enhanced effort to understand the effects of human activity on the Earth’s climate, and to provide the technological options for meeting the climate challenge in the near and longer terms. The APS also urges governments, universities, national laboratories and its membership to support policies and actions that will reduce the emission of greenhouse gases.

Just to help us in the future, do you think you could highlight the portions of above statement that you disagree with?

 

[Trakar]

I'm sure it is. Nothing gets past peer review that doesn't have the OMG! SkyIsFalling! front and center.

It may be a political board, but that is not a sufficient reason to completely eliminate reason and evidences from your posts and substitute blatant lies.

 

[Trakar]

Question about CO2 that I would like to have answered. If we say that CO2 is the cause of global warming and we know that the biggest producer of CO2 on planet by far is the oceans (evaporating ocean water produce something like 20 times more CO2 than humans). Then warmer climate on global basis will create more water vapor from oceans, more heat more evaporating water, and thereby more CO2. If CO2 then is the main culprit in keeping the earth warm, shouldn't the temperature since the beginning of time have been going up steadily and never have gone down?

Since we know that is not case then it seems to me that CO2 is not where it is at. Global warming is a fact, but what is causing it, is still pretty much up in the air and there are some much better theories out there than CO2 driven global warming...

Your understandings are confused and mostly incorrect according to the best scientific evaluations and understandings available. But discussion of the science is limited to one moderated thread, if you would care to take your considerations to that thread, I will be happy to discuss them in more detail. For a good foundation on the subject, I recommend the American Institute of Physics sponsored hypertext reference book "The Discovery of Global Warming" - http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.htm

 

[Trakar]

Two words: "Go Nuclear".

Problem solved.

Nuclear alone won't "solve" the problem, but it is a technological piece which could (and IMO should) be a vitally important component of sustainable energy policy and planning for the future.

 

[Trakar]

a lot would say, first we want a solution for the waste, and not just a theoretical one.

I would say that "a lot" need a more objective and complete understanding of waste issues.

 

[Trakar]

Can it be a wealthy suburb if one gets built there though?

Properly done, it could even be a wealthier suburb.

 

[Trakar]

...

How many people attending these protests were nuclear engineers and reactor physicists?

Good points all, but the problem is with the education systems, which unfortunately is where many of these protestors learned their unreasoned fears in the first place, instead of solid science and critical thinking.

 

[Trakar]

and why doesnt the industry offer your solution as a solution?

and it does not matter if they are nuclear engineers or not. They want a solution for the radioactive waste. and the industry is not offering one.
your appeal to authority is noted.

The industry is and has offered solutions but it is the politicians and voters who have to support and enact the solutions offered.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

yeah you and your theoretical solutions.

Blatant lie, already corrected numerous times.

people want a practical solution that seems to be safe and far away from their home.

Already done. Just waiting for enough customers to make it worth the start up costs.

We are building more reactors. and Germany is running theirs longer as the people want.

Good, keep doing that. The waste management systems will be along shortly.

Brake repair shops are critical infrastructure for the safe operation of cars and trucks. You are in effect saying that brake repair shops must be opened where there are no cars and trucks before people can be allowed to own cars and trucks.

Frankly... that's retarded.

Not everyone thinks that oh well one day we will have a solution, so don't worry, keep going on.

Argumentum ad populum, possible appeal to false authority.

the Nuclear Industry fails to deliver a solution.

Blatant lie. Already corrected numerous times.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Google results come up with either those papers you cited, or whacked out woo sites promoting hormesis along with other "miracle cures".

Yes. Google searches come up with either serious work by professionals within their field of expertise, or crazy people who don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Good points all, but the problem is with the education systems, which unfortunately is where many of these protestors learned their unreasoned fears in the first place, instead of solid science and critical thinking.

I'm already working on this part. This is one of those things where I'm not just some random dude talking trash on an internet forum. I'm putting feet to pavement in the real world on this.

I will be helping to man a booth for the Canadian Nuclear Society at the 2010 Alberta Teachers Association Science Council Conference in Edmonton, Alberta in two weeks. We'll be taking names from Alberta educators for our geiger counter give-away program as well as helping to get accurate information into the hands of Alberta educators.

Me, meeting then JREF president, Dr. Phil "The Bad Astronomer" Plait
at the 2009 ATA Science Conference in Red Deer, Alberta.

 

[JihadJane]

The South-Polar Plateau.

**** off!

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

**** off!

Trying to out-do Leftysergeants and DCs meticulous research and infallible reasoning?