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WTC dust

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Dog Town said:
Thanks for trying to answer, I guess.
Why does your answer seem like a dodge?
I'll try again, maybe something shiny distracted you, from being clear.

Out side of "the little nook", but inside same dwelling, did an artist of metal reside ( meaning: some one who works with metal!)? The cigarette butts comment was interesting, however.:rolleyes:
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If this lady ever did metal work, I never heard about it. And she wouldn't be doing metal work in the nook where the dust was found, even if she was into metal work.
 
alienentity said:
Goodbye critical thinking, hello circular logic.:rolleyes:

The RJ Lee study classified over 400,000 particles using SEM techniques and produced 80,000 images.
Protocols for collection were followed for 130 Liberty. (see 1.3 Testing Protocols, p. 03)
Sample analysis took place under a number of accepted protocols using SEM, EDS, XRD, GC/MS.

That was a proper, well documented and professional scientific approach.

Dr Blevins would elevate her 'forensic' investigation to this level without having demonstrated even a single instance of such competency. To call Dr Blevin's activities 'scientific research' is to denigrate those terms.
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Analyzing the molecules isn't the same thing as analyzing the macroscopic structure.
 
alienentity said:
'For nearly 30 years, RJ Lee Group, Inc. (RJLG) has excelled at providing analytical services, technical consulting, information management, and expert testimony in materials characterization and forensic engineering. Our services are sought by leading organizations in academia, industry, and government.'

Tracy Blevin's relevant expertise and experience in these areas? None that we can determine.

Here's one of the most relevant specific areas in which Dr Blevins is missing the mark completely: Chain of Custody


'The chain of custody procedure starts with sample collection and follows through to the destruction of the sample. The purpose of the procedure is to ensure that the sample has been in possession of, or secured by, a responsible person at all times. It should remove any doubt about sample identification or that the sample has been tampered with. '

Here's the RJ Lee chain of custody form (xl). Note how Dr Blevins is unable or unwilling to provide a single example of this kind of professional due diligence. I submit that she is both unaware of such necessities and doesn't care about them.
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The chain is very short. I discovered it, had a friend take some pictures before I did anything, and then collected it.
 
triforcharity said:
And my experience of being there first hand, tells me differently.

Care to cite your source that it was interrupted?
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Originally I heard about it from friends who were there. Is that a citable source? I did not go to the memorial ceremony, because that day was for the amateurs.

I went to Ground Zero early and often, but not on the anniversary. I've actually NEVER gone to Ground Zero on the anniversary. Why go there and mourn a false story with the crowds? So I didn't go to the first one, but heard about it from friends who did.

But that was a long time ago. I knew the ceremony had been disrupted, but I just did a little search around to find an image, and found the one with the cringing fire fighters.
 
WTC Dust said:
But that was a long time ago. I knew the ceremony had been disrupted, but I just did a little search around to find an image, and found the one with the cringing fire fighters.
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Except it wasn't disrupted, and they're not cringing.
 
The fumes were smelly, too.

"She said the smell from the trade center residue came and went. When it was overcast, it was stronger, she added. 'It was not quite a fire smell. It was something extra. How can I describe it? It made your lips tingle.' "

The above quote is from a New York Times article titled, "The Scent - 20 Days Later, an Invisible Reminder Lingers." http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/nyregion/01SMEL.html?pagewanted=1 The thing this article got wrong is the "invisible" part because you could see the fumes coming from Ground Zero. They weren't invisible.

The thing the article got right was the difficulty people had describing the smell. Smells are unique. We don't have a descriptive vocabulary for smells like we do for sights. Let's pretend you see something that you don't understand. At the very least, you might be able to describe the color, size and shape. How do you describe a smell that you've never smelled before?

What would you say if, months after the attacks, the smell was as strong as ever?


From "Health News: Odors Conjure Up Awful 9/11 Memories"
http://www.lifeclinic.com/fullpage.aspx?prid=513682&type=1

"Odors have a strong impact on memory and emotions," says Dr. Alan Hirsch, neurological director of the Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago. "When we look at different times in our history, we find different odors tend to induce flashbacks" in people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

In the case of the World Trade Center, the point was not to induce frightening flashbacks but to somehow use the odors to aid the recovery process. Dalton and two of her staff members gained access to the cleanup site to collect odors. Preti then did the analysis of the samples. "It was my job to try to identify what they were and, once we identified them, we can reconstitute them."


A scientist who studies smells could not identify the smells. Question: Doesn't this mean that it was a weird smell? Isn't this the definition of a weird smell? If a smell professor can't identify it, it's a strange thing, indeed.
 
WTC Dust said:
There is a lot of damage to The Sphere that is inconsistent with anything falling on it.

Curled up edges. Blown out parts. Thinned bronze plates. Punch out holes. Doesn't look one bit like damage from falling objects to me. Wanna meet in Battery Park to take a look at it? It's still right there, for everyone to view.
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I know it's still there, I just said I was looking at a pic that I took a couple months ago.

There is nothing inconsistent with mechanical damage from being impacted and buried in debris. If there is, how about you go take a picture of the specific damage that is anomalous.
 
WTC Dust said:
The fumes were smelly, too.

"She said the smell from the trade center residue came and went. When it was overcast, it was stronger, she added. 'It was not quite a fire smell. It was something extra. How can I describe it? It made your lips tingle.' "

The above quote is from a New York Times article titled, "The Scent - 20 Days Later, an Invisible Reminder Lingers." http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/nyregion/01SMEL.html?pagewanted=1 The thing this article got wrong is the "invisible" part because you could see the fumes coming from Ground Zero. They weren't invisible.

The thing the article got right was the difficulty people had describing the smell. Smells are unique. We don't have a descriptive vocabulary for smells like we do for sights. Let's pretend you see something that you don't understand. At the very least, you might be able to describe the color, size and shape. How do you describe a smell that you've never smelled before?

What would you say if, months after the attacks, the smell was as strong as ever?


From "Health News: Odors Conjure Up Awful 9/11 Memories"
http://www.lifeclinic.com/fullpage.aspx?prid=513682&type=1

"Odors have a strong impact on memory and emotions," says Dr. Alan Hirsch, neurological director of the Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago. "When we look at different times in our history, we find different odors tend to induce flashbacks" in people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

In the case of the World Trade Center, the point was not to induce frightening flashbacks but to somehow use the odors to aid the recovery process. Dalton and two of her staff members gained access to the cleanup site to collect odors. Preti then did the analysis of the samples. "It was my job to try to identify what they were and, once we identified them, we can reconstitute them."


A scientist who studies smells could not identify the smells. Question: Doesn't this mean that it was a weird smell? Isn't this the definition of a weird smell? If a smell professor can't identify it, it's a strange thing, indeed.
Click to expand...

A bunch of **** was on fire, what exactly are you expecting it to smell like?

What is your point?
 
WTC Dust said:
The fumes were smelly, too.

"She said the smell from the trade center residue came and went. When it was overcast, it was stronger, she added. 'It was not quite a fire smell. It was something extra. How can I describe it? It made your lips tingle.' "

The above quote is from a New York Times article titled, "The Scent - 20 Days Later, an Invisible Reminder Lingers." http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/01/nyregion/01SMEL.html?pagewanted=1 The thing this article got wrong is the "invisible" part because you could see the fumes coming from Ground Zero. They weren't invisible.

The thing the article got right was the difficulty people had describing the smell. Smells are unique. We don't have a descriptive vocabulary for smells like we do for sights. Let's pretend you see something that you don't understand. At the very least, you might be able to describe the color, size and shape. How do you describe a smell that you've never smelled before?

What would you say if, months after the attacks, the smell was as strong as ever?


From "Health News: Odors Conjure Up Awful 9/11 Memories"
http://www.lifeclinic.com/fullpage.aspx?prid=513682&type=1

"Odors have a strong impact on memory and emotions," says Dr. Alan Hirsch, neurological director of the Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago. "When we look at different times in our history, we find different odors tend to induce flashbacks" in people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

In the case of the World Trade Center, the point was not to induce frightening flashbacks but to somehow use the odors to aid the recovery process. Dalton and two of her staff members gained access to the cleanup site to collect odors. Preti then did the analysis of the samples. "It was my job to try to identify what they were and, once we identified them, we can reconstitute them."


A scientist who studies smells could not identify the smells. Question: Doesn't this mean that it was a weird smell? Isn't this the definition of a weird smell? If a smell professor can't identify it, it's a strange thing, indeed.
Click to expand...

Of course it was smelly, there was a large burried fire full of burning plastic office materials and thousands of rotting corpses. Most people have no experience with that kind of smell.
 
excaza said:
A bunch of **** was on fire, what exactly are you expecting it to smell like?

What is your point?
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Fire smells like what is on fire. A smell professor sampled the smells, and could not identify the smell. From my personal observation, I agree. That smell was unique to me. Nothing smelled anything like it. It was actually more than a smell, because it hurt your nose when you breathed it. Sharp and painful tiny stabs, it felt like.
 
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