• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Forgiven for what, eactly?

TimCallahan said:
On another thread (Mohammed now the most popular boy's name in England), DOC responded to a comment by Hokulele that it was too bad God hadn't learned to turn the other cheek, with the following:

If you ask for forgiveness and are sincere he will.

So, here's what I'd like to know: For what , exactly, are we supposed to be asking forgiveness? Original sin (that we didn't commit)? Not being perfect, when we are supposedly made the way we are by the God who has to forgive us for being what we are?

Or are we all guilty of grievous sins and acts of utter depravity that we are too dishonest to admit?
Click to expand...
Actually if god exists we might be obliged to forgive him.
 
I Ratant said:
.
Onan was killed by god for spilling seed!
Click to expand...

This is not a good argument for or against masturbation, since Onan was killed for not providing his dead brother an heir, and not for masturbating. He wasted his seed ( after plowing the field, btw ) which was promised to the widow of his brother. He didn't want a child that he couldn't claim as his own.

( Yeah, it's a myth. I know )
 
Hey, I bought all those girls new shoes.

That means I'm clear, right?

Right?
 
Third Eye Open said:
AvalonXQ, I think you are one of the most interesting posters here. You are the most consistently cordial and reasonable young earther I have ever encountered anywhere. I find that to be very strange and surreal even sometimes.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the compliment. Thank you for taking the time to engage my posts.

I have done things that I considered morally wrong indeed, I doubt anyone would argue that they haven't, unless they have a very unusual morality. It is impossible to learn without making mistakes. But what I don't understand is why I should feel the need to be sorry to god, even if I thought he existed. I feel guilty for what i have done because it has wronged another person, and I apologize to them. I find it a sad cop out that someone could feel relieved of guilt by apologizing to god instead of the person they wronged.
Click to expand...
I don't believe it to be an either-or proposition -- having your sins forgiven does not remove your responsibility to own up to those you have wronged.
 
AvalonXQ said:
Every free moral agent on Earth has willfully committed an evil act, in disobedience to God's will and our responsibilities to God.
Click to expand...
Do you seriously believe what you have written here?

That sin separates us from God. We must seek forgiveness to reconnect with God.
Click to expand...
Before deciding what I must do, i'd first like to hear what exactly i'm asking forgiveness for.

Additionally, i'm not sure that I want to reconnect with a God who has piss poor communcation skills, an over-inflated sense of self and who is vindictive to the extreme. I really don't see the upside of worshipping such a god.
 
AvalonXQ said:
.
I don't believe it to be an either-or proposition -- having your sins forgiven does not remove your responsibility to own up to those you have wronged.
Click to expand...

Since there is no such thing as the highlighted, one's time would be better spent making the wrong right, if possible.
 
AvalonXQ said:
Such an agent could exist (and did at one time), but does not today.
Click to expand...

So you personally know all the actions undertaken by every single human alive on the planet at this moment, and know that every single individual has committed at least one immoral act?
I thought god was supposed to be the omnipotent one, not you.
 
chillzero said:
So you personally know all the actions undertaken by every single human alive on the planet at this moment, and know that every single individual has committed at least one immoral act?
Click to expand...

First of all, I wouldn't have to know EVERY action committed by every human being -- just ONE sinful action committed by each one.
But, in practice, I'm not even claiming that much knowledge. I'm simply claiming that the Bible indicates that we all sin.
 
To clarify yet again (because this point keeps coming up): I don't have to be God, know everything about God, or know everything about anyone else to say what I'm saying. I just have to believe that, in believing and understanding the Bible, I have information that comes from God. It's upon that basis that I've been giving the best explanation I have to the questions that have been asked.
 
AvalonXQ said:
First of all, I wouldn't have to know EVERY action committed by every human being -- just ONE sinful action committed by each one.
Click to expand...
Right, so you can name one sinful action that any human being alive right now has ever committed?

AvalonXQ said:
But, in practice, I'm not even claiming that much knowledge. I'm simply claiming that the Bible indicates that we all sin.
Click to expand...
... oh ... maybe this is an admission that you can't. Was your earlier statement wrong, in being too absolute? Are you now saying that you cannot definitively state that there is no one person alive on earth right now who has not committed an immoral act?

...Are you just actually saying that your special book has merely indicated to you to assume the worst of everyone - including yourself?
 
Last edited:
chillzero said:
Are you now saying that you cannot definitively state that there is no one person alive on earth right now who has not committed an immoral act?
Click to expand...

I can definitively state that -- not from personal knowledge, but from belief in the message of the Bible.
 
Last edited:
chillzero said:
...Are you just actually saying that your special book has merely indicated to you to assume the worst of everyone - including yourself?
Click to expand...

Christianity is based on the rather distressing "news" (I use the scare quotes because most of us know this pretty well intuitively) that all of us are imperfect, that we have all made bad decisions and separated ourselves from God. I wouldn't call this "assuming the worst" of anyone, although it's certainly assuming something bad about each person, so I can see why you'd characterize it that way.
But sin is a basic part of Christian teaching, along with its remedy. This should not be surprising. None of us are good enough to make it to Heaven without help.
 
AvalonXQ said:
I can definitively state that -- not from personal knowledge, but from belief in the message of the Bible.
Click to expand...

and how does a book written so long ago (by men) in another continent identify what Joe Bloggs fom Newcastle has done - sinful - in 2010?
 
AvalonXQ said:
Christianity is based on the rather distressing "news" (I use the scare quotes because most of us know this pretty well intuitively) that all of us are imperfect, that we have all made bad decisions and separated ourselves from God. I wouldn't call this "assuming the worst" of anyone, although it's certainly assuming something bad about each person, so I can see why you'd characterize it that way.
But sin is a basic part of Christian teaching, along with its remedy. This should not be surprising. None of us are good enough to make it to Heaven without help.
Click to expand...

Right. So - the question of this thread remains - you are not being very specific. Forgiveness for what? If you can state that the bible claims that everyone is incapable of living a moral life, then what are the sins that none can avoid?
 
TimCallahan said:
For what , exactly, are we supposed to be asking forgiveness?
Click to expand...


Maybe for failing to unconditionally and completely forgive yourself and everyone else for everything ever thought, said, or done, or that ever will be?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom