Forgiven for what, eactly?

[Lothian]

If you're confident that God will judge you sinless, you have no need of Christianity to help you.

I am confident there is no God, no judging and no need for Christianity to help me.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Do you hold that the Bible states that nobody will succeed in doing so, and that, because the Bible is the revealed word of God, then it is certain that nobody will succeed in doing so?

That reflects my current understanding, yes.

 

[Resume]

You think it's arrogant to claim to be able to share knowledge with others?
You must hate Educational Foundations, then.

I think it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of god. I don't hate educational foundations because they do just that, educate; superstitious cultists are retrograde in that regard.

 

[AvalonXQ]

I think it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of god.

Do you think it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of anyone, or just God?

 

[Polaris]

Which is a bunch of crock, as you can go through your live without having done anything morally wrong, and still be qualified as sinner by christian. They will just ASSUME that you have done evil. And if you say don't they weill tell you lied which is evil.

Remember that question lsit where you asnwered "no" and the web site answered you are wrong and you are a sinner ?

Same play here. The message is always "whether you accept it or not, you are a sinner, no matter what you did".

It is a bunch of crock, just like astrologer pretending uranus don't stink.

If a qualification of sin is that the sinner must know (s)he is willingly committing an evil act, that must mean God is a humongous fan of sociopaths.

 

[Lothian]

Do you think it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of anyone, or just God?

Do you think it arrogant for one Christian cult out of the 1000's to claim to know the mind of God and to claim the rest are wrong?

 

[Seismosaurus]

Every evil act is in disobedience to God, and therefore against God.

And I could equally say that I have a set of rules people should follow and therefore everone who breaks the rules is in disobedience of me.

The question is, I should be obedient to god why, exactly?

 

[Resume]

Do you think it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of anyone, or just God?

I think it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of your god; I've read the book you like to reference and also the apologetics for it and don't find either compelling or educational. I find many of the apologists, who often claim to be humble, arrogant and prideful.

 

[AvalonXQ]

And I could equally say that I have a set of rules people should follow and therefore everone who breaks the rules is in disobedience of me.

That's a very good point.
Of course, human beings don't have the same responsibilities to you that they do to God. Human beings are created to have a relationship with God. Sin disrupts that relationship.

 

[AvalonXQ]

I think it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of your god;

I'm afraid I don't have any reasonable response to this sort of special pleading, other than pointing out that it is special pleading and that I disagree.

 

[Resume]

I'm afraid I don't have any reasonable response to this sort of special pleading, other than pointing out that it is special pleading and that I disagree.

Except that it isn't special pleading, though you may disagree all you like.

 

[Resume]

That's a very good point.
Of course, human beings don't have the same responsibilities to you that they do to God. Human beings are created to have a relationship with God. Sin disrupts that relationship.

The highlighted is an example of arrogance.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Except that it isn't special pleading, though you may disagree all you like.

You're unwilling to make a statement about what claims are arrogant, other than to claim that it is specifically arrogant to make the exact claim you assert that I've made. You won't state that it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of anyone; only that it's arrogant to claim to know the mind of my specific god.
You've specifically called out exactly one behavior to characterize as arrogant, not as part of a general category of similar behaviors but by itself alone. This is textbook special pleading. If it's not, explain where I've misunderstood.

 

[Robin]

I do indeed.

So Jesus never found anybody sexually attractive?

Also, one of the things I do that I consider morally wrong is that I spend money on luxury items for myself when I know that there are people who go hungry - even in my own city.

Jesus, never having sinned, would not have done anything like that, would he?

In theory, my understanding is yes.

But that contradicts what you said earlier - you said that someone might be unintentionally disobedient to God. If a sin is unchosen, unintentional - then it is not avoidable.

 

[Dave Rogers]

That reflects my current understanding, yes.

So we are required to ask forgiveness from God for something that, if God is infallible, it was impossible for us not to have done? And, notwithstanding that in principle we have free will, God, our creator, knew at the time He created us that we would be unable not to do it?

Dave

 

[AvalonXQ]

So Jesus never found anybody sexually attractive?

Sexual attraction isn't sinful. Actively fantasizing about another specific person may be sinful. I've been over this before, more than once, on this very forum.

But that contradicts what you said earlier - you said that someone might be unintentionally disobedient to God. If a sin is unchosen, unintentional - then it is not avoidable.

Sin must be intentional, chosen. When you sin, you intentionally choose to do something that you know is wrong when you do it. Whether or not you intend to disobey God, you intend to do something you know to be wrong, and that does disobey God. Does that clarify what I mean?

 

[Seismosaurus]

That's a very good point.
Of course, human beings don't have the same responsibilities to you that they do to God.

Why do I have a responsibility to god?

 

[AvalonXQ]

So we are required to ask forgiveness from God for something that, if God is infallible, it was impossible for us not to have done?

It was possible for me not to have done it. I chose to do it anyway. That's the "free will" part.

And, notwithstanding that in principle we have free will, God, our creator, knew at the time He created us that we would be unable not to do it?

God knowingly created beings that would later make a free choice to sin, yes.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Why do I have a responsibility to god?

That's another good question. The nature of the universe, God's role in creating it, our purpose in being created -- I think these are sufficient reasons to establish a responsibility to God. Do you not?

 

[Resume]

You're unwilling to make a statement about what claims are arrogant, If it's not, explain where I've misunderstood.

Re-read all your claims in this thread.