Mojo
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What does interest have to do with taxation?
Anyway, I thought FOTLers could borrow money and just not pay it back.
The Freeman Movement and England
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What does interest have to do with taxation?
Anyway, I thought FOTLers could borrow money and just not pay it back.
1pso fact0
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When the Gov take out a loan do you think there is no interest on that loan? Who then pays the interest? I am guessing the taxpayer.
Is interest gained from payments taxable? Do banks pay tax on the interest they receive from customer payments?
I have several loans, and I pay them all - do all FOTlers not pay their loans or is it a generalisation that they do not? Have you any figures to suggest that they do not, or is your post based on hearsay?
Yes, but that's out of the tax you already paid; you were talking about some sort of interest on top of that.
So you're double-counting the interest payments in order to get to your 40%?
Yes, as ordinary income. In the same way that a shoe store pays tax on the money they receive from customers buying shoes, or that a deli pays tax on the money they receive from selling sandwiches.
(In the US, interest is sometimes not taxable; for example, money received from municipal bonds is tax-free, but they also pay less interest for that reason. An AA-rated corporate bond might yield 6%; an AA-rated muni might yield 4%. But customer interest paid to banks is almost always taxable.)
cwalner
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You are correct, but in the US, that is included in the overall tax burden that the government imposes, be it income, property or sales/VAT (I would be surprised if this were different in other countries).
The interest you pay on personal loans is not a tax to pay off government loans, it is a fee you pay for the service of having the money available to you when you want to purchase something that you don't have enough capital for at the time of the purchase.
You really, really need to get a much better accountant if 40% of your income goes in tax (even including property and consumption taxes) if you are indeed a successful businessman. My business saves me £000's in taxes every year.
Super bugs are indeed largely fiction. One lab has produced all the positive tests published by newspapers. In fact the lab is notorious.
Waiting lists are also much reduced thanks to additional government spending.
You are right to point that at some high dependency baby units, at peak demand there aren't enough beds (of course places were found, but the babies had to travel). But then again, at most popular restaurants there aren't enough tables. Unless we're going to carry massive over capacity in our services this is bound to happen.
Basically you believe everything you read in the Daily Mail or Daily Express and ignore the fact that waiting lists are down, successful outcomes are up and life expectancy continues to grow
Maybe the tax can be invested back into the community? Just an idea
I couldn't make sense of that sentence. Councils invested money in Iceland, the investment went bad. There are two possible outcomes:
- Services to little old ladies are reduced until the money is recouped OR
- Taxes are raised to enable services to be maintained
Huh ?
Council gets money from government - all in one lump
Council sticks money in Icelandic bank so they get some interest until the money is required (and enabling them to get a little extra bang for the buck)
The banks go under, the money is lost, what do you want them to do ?
The losses were made. Whining about it isn't going to change things. Now you could prevent local authorities from investing their money but all that will do is reduce the amount of money they have available to them.
Governments don't set out to get into debt but.....
Commitments to (most) expenditure are made years in advance to be able to secure the best prices and to ensure that the necessary resources are available.
Tax receipts are volatile and are subject to change rapidly.
The purpose of the "Golden Rule" was to ensure that there was no net borrowing (apart from to invest in infrastructure etc.) over the economic cycle.
The alternative is to have rapid swings in expenditure year on year. Problem is, in order for me to make an investment in resources and skills, I need to be pretty sure that the business is going to be there. Otherwise I'll just up my prices and we'll get terrible value for money
I have thought about it a great deal.
No, you've fumed about the "unfairness" of having to pay taxes a great deal.
Mojo
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What has this got to do with what you pay when you make a purchase (as you put it, "the interest on everything that we buy")?
How much of this interest do you pay if you buy a pound of spuds?
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tsig
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I'm wondering why he's paying anything at all. Sounds like he's a Freeman on the Lips.
1pso fact0
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Ty Drk
Hahaha, I wish - no I wasn't 'double counting.
My ref was in relation to the shops loan that was taken out to buy stock - the price is then including the interest on that loan, just as their wholesalers price reflects the cost of their interest etc etc. So at the very min there are two loans whose interest effects the cost of an item before the end user purchases it – and the end user pays for the loans in the price he pays.
Without all that interest, then goods would be cheaper - that was premier point I was discussing
And so the taxpayer is charged a very small rate of tax incurred by the store keeper from the interest of the loan that was used to purchase the goods - even a small amount adds up across multiple millions of sales each day: all pouring into the Gov’s coffers.
Hahaha, I wish - no I wasn't 'double counting.
My ref was in relation to the shops loan that was taken out to buy stock - the price is then including the interest on that loan, just as their wholesalers price reflects the cost of their interest etc etc. So at the very min there are two loans whose interest effects the cost of an item before the end user purchases it – and the end user pays for the loans in the price he pays.
Without all that interest, then goods would be cheaper - that was premier point I was discussing
And so the taxpayer is charged a very small rate of tax incurred by the store keeper from the interest of the loan that was used to purchase the goods - even a small amount adds up across multiple millions of sales each day: all pouring into the Gov’s coffers.
1pso fact0
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A stealth-tax - and a burden placed on every one of us.
All this relief on the money in our wallets (plastic money lol) is just another thing that drags us down.
The markets are twisted for nefarious means - and we've not even got to the concept of interest rates reflecting the loans that don't get paid.
1pso fact0
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End of the day, my very good friend works as a palliative care nurse and she has discussed mrsa with me, hardly fiction when it is running rife through our hospitals and killing people.
Perhaps you would like to tell the relatives who have lost family members to mrsa that the disease is a fiction?
For the rec, I don’t read the daily mail, or telegraph, but I understand your point – I am careful of media hype and not taking it on board. Mrsa though is real, it kills people, hospitals have suffered massively due to cutbacks and higher population, pulling their apron strings tighter from both directions, waiting lists are real, bed shortages are real. Back in the day hospitals were run and managed to a degree of efficiency – matrons saw to much of the day to day work, cutbacks forced staff cuts and longer working hours for the staff who remained.
Our NHS is a mess compared to what it could be, but yes, of course it does supply a life line for those on low incomes & should remain but I would like to see more funding put into it and it run to a higher standard.
It may seem ironic, but I would pay a higher tax if there was evidence that it would give us a better public health service – tax is all very well, it is how it is spent that chives me.
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cwalner
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A stealth-tax - and a burden placed on every one of us.
All this relief on the money in our wallets (plastic money lol) is just another thing that drags us down.
The markets are twisted for nefarious means - and we've not even got to the concept of interest rates reflecting the loans that don't get paid.
Wow!!, just wow!.
No interest is neither stealth, not is it a tax. It is a charge for a service, nothing more.
As to interest rates relecting loans that don't get paid, that is something like retail stores rasing the markup to cover shrinkage. Nothing new, nothing unique to banking, nothing to see here, move along.
jargon buster
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I dont know if this qualifies as a stundie, its certainly a massive foot in mouth.
Swiftex wrote on Ickes regarding a silly claim by another freeman loon.
As swiftex is so far up Menards backside he can see Yozhiks feet, its no surprise he has never requested the same from Menard and his equally stupid theories.
Swiftex wrote on Ickes regarding a silly claim by another freeman loon.
As swiftex is so far up Menards backside he can see Yozhiks feet, its no surprise he has never requested the same from Menard and his equally stupid theories.
1pso fact0
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I did not say the interest is stealth, but postulated whether the tax gleaned from such is.
Yes, wow!
Errrm....
Funding for the NHS has increased in real terms.
Show me the evidence that waiting lists are growing. There's figures here that show that waiting lists are much lower now than at any point in the past 25 years. http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...spitalWaitingTimesandListStatistics/DH_077390
NHS working hours are shorter than ever, in fact clinicians are complaining about the working time directive.
More people are employed by the NHS, more medical people employed by hte NHS than ever before
Your assertions are simply not supported by the facts
So your plan to cut spending and taxes is to increase spending
Tell me, where do you think the failures are, and more pertinently, what can be done to change things ?
Most of this has been covered, but I'll throw in my responses.
The tax is not on the interest, it is on the profits. Unless you are going to class the corporation tax the corner shop pays on its profits as part of your tax burden?
Compared to pre 1940? It is significantly better for the bulk of society. Most of these people would not have access to that care in the first place without the NHS. And it has already been pointed out how it has improved over the past 2 decades as well.
These all go together. As has been pointed out, a council gets its income in lumps. Now, it can stick it all in a mattress or it can invest it in order to reduce the overall tax burden. In very rare cases that can go wrong. The Iceland situation was one of those cases. Councils are no better than any other shareholder.
If they did not invest the money then you would see your council tax go up by around 3-4% to cover it all.
How do you propose it gets out of debt? What do you propose a government does during lean times? Should a company never take out loans under this concept?
Why should a government be any different?
But possibly not with any great idea of what it is your are exercising your brain over.
The tax is not on the interest, it is on the profits. Unless you are going to class the corporation tax the corner shop pays on its profits as part of your tax burden?
Compared to pre 1940? It is significantly better for the bulk of society. Most of these people would not have access to that care in the first place without the NHS. And it has already been pointed out how it has improved over the past 2 decades as well.
Maybe the tax can be invested back into the community? Just an idea
The council should balance their books according to their spending not lost investments. I wouldn’t want to see any cuts being made, I would like to see that the money gets spent wisely.
Maybe by not making losses?
These all go together. As has been pointed out, a council gets its income in lumps. Now, it can stick it all in a mattress or it can invest it in order to reduce the overall tax burden. In very rare cases that can go wrong. The Iceland situation was one of those cases. Councils are no better than any other shareholder.
If they did not invest the money then you would see your council tax go up by around 3-4% to cover it all.
How do you propose it gets out of debt? What do you propose a government does during lean times? Should a company never take out loans under this concept?
Why should a government be any different?
I have thought about it a great deal.
But possibly not with any great idea of what it is your are exercising your brain over.
1pso fact0
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Errrm....
Funding for the NHS has increased in real terms.
Show me the evidence that waiting lists are growing. There's figures here that show that waiting lists are much lower now than at any point in the past 25 years. http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...spitalWaitingTimesandListStatistics/DH_077390
NHS working hours are shorter than ever, in fact clinicians are complaining about the working time directive.
More people are employed by the NHS, more medical people employed by hte NHS than ever before
Your assertions are simply not supported by the facts
So your plan to cut spending and taxes is to increase spending
Tell me, where do you think the failures are, and more pertinently, what can be done to change things ?
You don't believe that there are waiting lists on the NHS?
I do not believe those waiting lists are fiction, I do not believe that super bug is fiction.
Please provide information that there are no waiting lists for knee ops, hip replacements, eyes ops etc.
The maximum anyone should have to wait for these ops is a week, the reality of the wait is far, far longer. The NHS is overburdened, and if you can supply evidence to show otherwise i would like to see it.
#Are the more people employed by the NHS now per capita that say forty years ago?
'My plan' as you have put it was to suggest that the money collected be better spent, and of course, if spending more on the NHS, meant a better public health service, then I’d be happy to spend on a service that was worthwhile.
If i buy a car for new £6k it will be adequate tool for me to drive from one place to another. If, however, I buy a car for £60k, that car will do the same job, likely be more reliable and be much more efficient, driver friendly and comfortable.
The NHS is that £6k car, if it were a £60k car, ran more efficiently, with less breakdowns and more reliability – sure it is a better option. You get what you pay for, simple.
The huge chunk of income that is taken on tax, directly applied taxation through VAT, stealth taxation etc is ploughed in to paying off the national debts, that money could be better spent funding the NHS and local services - and the system seems to be engineered to revolve around paying off debt rather than funding.
I'm sorry you fail to see how the hard earned money that is collected in tax is not being as well spent as it should be. And if it was well spent, then the tax burden placed on every hard working man and woman would be eased and the tax payers could spend THEIR money on what THEY wanted, perhaps a holliday or private health care / pension plan.
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Except you simply haven't pointed out what you mean by "well spent".
At the moment it's simply words.
How would you deal with the debt?
Waiting lists? Well, what would you do to reduce the waiting lists? As I said before, these are people who, without the NHS, would not be getting knee surgery. 1 week waiting time? I assume you've analysed the implications of that and not simply pulled a figure out of your posterior.
At the moment it's simply words.
How would you deal with the debt?
Waiting lists? Well, what would you do to reduce the waiting lists? As I said before, these are people who, without the NHS, would not be getting knee surgery. 1 week waiting time? I assume you've analysed the implications of that and not simply pulled a figure out of your posterior.
1pso fact0
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You need to understand debt and who engineered it to understand how to deal with it.
Debt was created to keep the system in lock-down, raise taxation, keep the man who works for his family under the heel of Gov.
A matter of dealing with it then becomes a matter of seeing where it came from and how best to remove the liability.
How to reduce waiting lists? If I am queuing at asda, asda simply put more people on the checkouts. Equate it yourself.
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