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The Freeman Movement and England

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Since I've only been aware of this insanity for a month or so now, I've tried asking some nutjob aquaintances about FMOTL as well as reading some of the Icke nonsense.

I point out that I'm a lawyer, I've passed two state bar exams, and I've never heard of this. No one I went to school with heard of this. No judge, lawyer or other legal professional I've talked to is aware of this, and these are the people that are somehow meant to enforce it when the magic invocation is spoken. Hell, wouldn't I use it to get out of parking and speeding tickets at every opportunity?

The reply I get, in various forms, is that of course I'm pretending like I've never heard of it. Lawyers and judges make so much money off the system that we'd rather pay some civil fines than break the game.

Ok, then explain why this guy didn't use it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy

Somehow the institution was so sacred that a man who raped, beat and murdered women, then defiled their dead bodies, would rather go to the electric chair than ruin a financial windfall for the same judges and lawyers that put him to death?

Maybe Bundy wasn't in on the secret, I don't think he ever graduated law school having been arrested before graduating, but lawyers are found guilty of crimes all the time. WOuldn't Bernie Madoff have offered his lawyer so much money to keep him out of prison that the "financial windfall" of making hillbillies pay speeding tickets would pale in comparison?

FMOTL is so superficially idiotic that I feel ridiculous developing arguments against it...
 
1pso fact0 said:
I don't like having to pay 40% tax, and I'd like to see that changes be made so that i am allowed to spend the money i earn on what i want to rather than what i am told to spend it on.
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Please, either you're lying about your income or you have a terrible accountant.

Right now the income tax rate on the top marginal bracket is 36%. Most tax whiners use the income tax because it's the most progressive form of taxation.

State and local taxes, however, tend to be massively regressive, because people with means would simply relocate if it were otherwise.

Here's what people actually pay in NET taxes (all levels, deductions considered):

The bottom 99 percent of taxpayers pay 29.4 percent of their income in local, state, and federal taxes. The top 1 percent pay an average total tax rate of 30.9 percent...
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http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/wealthcare-0

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

So unjust.

If you're paying 40%, you're getting hosed.
 
TraneWreck said:
Please, either you're lying about your income or you have a terrible accountant.

Right now the income tax rate on the top marginal bracket is 36%. Most tax whiners use the income tax because it's the most progressive form of taxation.

State and local taxes, however, tend to be massively regressive, because people with means would simply relocate if it were otherwise.
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Well, to be fair, he does appear to be in the UK, not the US. However, 40% is the top marginal rate of income tax, so it is still hard to believe that's what he's paying.
 
zooterkin said:
Well, to be fair, he does appear to be in the UK, not the US. However, 40% is the top marginal rate of income tax, so it is still hard to believe that's what he's paying.
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And our ridiculous health costs on top of that 30% tax rate eliminate whatever gap exists between the coutries.
 
tranewrek, if you have an issue with paying tax, I know a man who might be able to help you out, have you heard of EldonG?:)
 
TraneWreck said:
you have a terrible accountant.

So unjust.

If you're paying 40%, you're getting hosed.
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Do you know my accountant?

Obviously you are in a better place to understand my tax payments than he is, and when I next see him I will raise issue with him re your concerns :rolleyes:

It isn't so much I mind paying taxes, it is what the taxes are spent on that chives me. If the money collected via tax is spent on making the system a better system, rather than funding a failing health service and off-setting the Gov's mistakes - then taxes would go a little way to being fair.

As taxpayers we are rewarding very bad accounting and decision making in the top ledgers of Gov, £50 million pounds of council tax money was lost in duff investments last year – course it is the taxpayer who foots the bill for that - tell me if you think that is a fair way to balance the books? Having lost the taxpayers money (council tax) in duff investments, the taxpayer is saddled with the bill in higher rates of tax!

When the Gov lost £50 million, everyone complained and moaned about it and they shook their heads – nothing more was done about it, the Gov got away with it, and they then got away with adding levy to future taxation classes to cover their losses! Ludicrous. It fails me why people like BobH are happy about paying taxes –

BobHaulk said:
i don't mind cause it provides welfare for inadequate folk like you.
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Bob, i have news for you, tax pays for debts and lost gambles. If we took away all interest, and stop paying off the Gov's debts, how much do you think the cost of living would come down? 50%? 60%? Read more like 80?

When you buy a thing from a shop you pay the interest on the loan that was taken out by the company to buy that thing. You also pay the interest on the payments that company make to the mortgage lender for the loan on their business premises, the interest on the loan that the company took when it started up, the interest on the loans that their wholesalers took in purchasing the goods and the interest on their mortgage, the interest on the costs of transportation – all that interest is taxable, vat is added and is paid for at the end of a long road by Bob Hawk who buys the thing. And somehow tax is fair.
 
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I'm used to the Fruitloops on the Land not making any sense, but paying taxes "chives" 1pso? Anyone know what this means? I've never encountered the word used in this context before.
 
Sledge said:
I'm used to the Fruitloops on the Land not making any sense, but paying taxes "chives" 1pso? Anyone know what this means? I've never encountered the word used in this context before.
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I think he's speaking British.
 
Horatius said:
I think he's speaking British.
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Although my sophistication marks me as a man of the world, I'm British. "Chives" ain't no term what I've ever heard used to refer to anything but the onion. Wiki mentions there's a couple of place names available, but that doesn't make 1pso's sentence make any more sense.
 
Ah, you're "just asking questions." Wrong thread, then. This is for the Freeman on the Land movement, specifically how it relates to England. The clues are in the title.
 
1pso fact0 said:
Do you know my accountant?

Obviously you are in a better place to understand my tax payments than he is, and when I next see him I will raise issue with him re your concerns :rolleyes:
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If you're paying 40% tax then I'm glad I don't know your accountant.
You might be paying that on the higher chunk of your income, but not on your income overall.

1pso fact0 said:
It isn't so much I mind paying taxes, it is what the taxes are spent on that chives me. If the money collected via tax is spent on making the system a better system, rather than funding a failing health service and off-setting the Gov's mistakes - then taxes would go a little way to being fair.
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The country's health in general is significantly better than it was 65 years ago, and that's largely down to the availability of health care. So no, it's not a failing health service. Unless you read the Daily Mail...

1pso fact0 said:
As taxpayers we are rewarding very bad accounting and decision making in the top ledgers of Gov, £50 million pounds of council tax money was lost in duff investments last year – course it is the taxpayer who foots the bill for that - tell me if you think that is a fair way to balance the books? Having lost the taxpayers money (council tax) in duff investments, the taxpayer is saddled with the bill in higher rates of tax!
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I think you'll find that private investors lost more in (for example) Iceland than councils. There's nothing magical about a council that they will avoid making bad investments.

As for balancing the books, how else should a council go about it? They could cut all services, but that would be throwing the poorest in society to the wolves.

1pso fact0 said:
When the Gov lost £50 million, everyone complained and moaned about it and they shook their heads – nothing more was done about it, the Gov got away with it, and they then got away with adding levy to future taxation classes to cover their losses! Ludicrous. It fails me why people like BobH are happy about paying taxes –
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Again, how should the government cover the losses?

1pso fact0 said:
Bob, i have news for you, tax pays for debts and lost gambles. If we took away all interest, and stop paying off the Gov's debts, how much do you think the cost of living would come down? 50%? 60%? Read more like 80?
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If you stopped paying off the governments debts the UK would be crippled as there would be no one willing to loan to a nation of defaulters. We would be unable to pay for any services (police, fire, armed forces, teachers, hospitals).

1pso fact0 said:
When you buy a thing from a shop you pay the interest on the loan that was taken out by the company to buy that thing. You also pay the interest on the payments that company make to the mortgage lender for the loan on their business premises, the interest on the loan that the company took when it started up, the interest on the loans that their wholesalers took in purchasing the goods and the interest on their mortgage, the interest on the costs of transportation – all that interest is taxable, vat is added and is paid for at the end of a long road by Bob Hawk who buys the thing. And somehow tax is fair.
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Corporation tax is paid on the profits, not on the specific interest (to use your example). No profits, no tax.

I really don't think you've thought about this beyond a level of "I don't like paying taxes, so they're not fair".
 
Sledge said:
Although my sophistication marks me as a man of the world, I'm British. "Chives" ain't no term what I've ever heard used to refer to anything but the onion. Wiki mentions there's a couple of place names available, but that doesn't make 1pso's sentence make any more sense.
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I suspect he's using it in this sense:


chive n. chive the result of being chiffed a slap/smack on the side of one's head

I recieved an awful chive from my mom when I left my dirty dishes in the sink.
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But we might want to consider this version:


Chive Slang used to describe someone who is out of the ordinary. When one has been acting strange or dimwitted.

"stop being a chive"

"Your a big chive Qdini"
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Tolls said:
If you're paying 40% tax then I'm glad I don't know your accountant.
You might be paying that on the higher chunk of your income, but not on your income overall.
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On my income overall i pay (as do we all) a much greater % rate than 40%, considering VAT and the interest on everything that we buy.

The country's health in general is significantly better than it was 65 years ago, and that's largely down to the availability of health care. So no, it's not a failing health service. Unless you read the Daily Mail...
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So the super bugs we hear about are all fiction? Babies being turned away from hospitals is all fiction? (I heard that on the news this morning) Waiting lists are all fiction? I could carry on Ad nauseam , but I'm sure you see where it's going?

I think you'll find that private investors lost more in (for example) Iceland than councils. There's nothing magical about a council that they will avoid making bad investments.
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Maybe the tax can be invested back into the community? Just an idea :D

As for balancing the books, how else should a council go about it? They could cut all services, but that would be throwing the poorest in society to the wolves.
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The council should balance their books according to their spending not lost investments. I wouldn’t want to see any cuts being made, I would like to see that the money gets spent wisely.

Again, how should the government cover the losses?
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Maybe by not making losses?

If you stopped paying off the governments debts the UK would be crippled as there would be no one willing to loan to a nation of defaulters. We would be unable to pay for any services (police, fire, armed forces, teachers, hospitals).
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The Gov shouldn't be in debt, simple. The debt has been made to create the ends that we try and tie together.

Take a look at The Secret of Oz - English - FREE.mov on YouTube. I can't post a link yet.

I really don't think you've thought about this beyond a level of "I don't like paying taxes, so they're not fair".
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I have thought about it a great deal. :D
 
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