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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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What was Meredith's exact body position when discovered? Was she on her back?


She was on her back. Her head was resting on one of the boots in the corner by the wardrobe. Her left leg was stretched out with the foot sticking out from under the comforter and the right leg was bent.

Rudy Guede would have had to twist her sideways to cut off the bra and then turn her back.


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=158997610791385&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034
 
I don't think this sounds likely. In Rudy Guede's other encounters he tried to LEAVE. He only pulled out the knife on Christian Tramantano when he found the door locked - when he was trapped. I think it's more likely that Rudy heard Meredith come home and go to her bedroom while on the toilet. He got up and tried to leave but found the door locked. Meredith heard the noise and poked her head around the corner and the he came after her because she recognized him or yelled at him.

I guess he could have just decided to rape her... Or maybe he came to her bedroom to demand the keys and the confrontation began.

If he tried the door first she would have heard him. Otherwise he could have just tried to sneak back out the window unnoticed.

I agree. IIRC one of the defence experts suggested it was an assault which escalated gradually, and given Rudy's alleged previous behaviour and the fact he was most likely surprised in the house by Meredith returning, I think that's quite a likely scenario. It seems much more probable that, let's say, she screamed and he rushed over to try to silence her and things progressed from there, than that he suddenly decided to rush in and murder her on the spur of the moment.

Another thing I disagree with in Charlie's scenario is the length of time the attack would have lasted. Although it might be possible to say that the three neck wounds were made within a short space of time from one another, I can't see how it's possible to say how long the assault might have lasted before that, since there would have been no signs of it. IMO, it's more likely there was a fairly extended period of time before the wounds were made, that they were made at a particular point during the struggle (probably when he was behind her and trying to remove her bra) and that the assault stopped at that point once it was evident how seriously she was injured. Rudy fetching the towels also fits better with this scenario.

At any rate, I don't see how it's possible to rule out the possibility of a more gradual assault which led (perhaps unintentionally) to murder. For me, one of the major problems with an attack that was over by, let's say, 21:05 is that I don't believe Rudy would've hung around for nearly an hour afterwards to take the cell phones. Looking at the evidence over-all, Rudy's alleged previous behaviour and the way the attack most likely started (as an interrupted burglary, not an intentional rape and murder) an assault which became gradually more serious over a period of, say, 30-40 minutes seems at least as likely as a very short deliberate attack.
 
My use of the term killers was quite deliberate - but based not on Curatolo but the case as a whole.

I can certainly understand your uncertainty based on the case as a whole, if you start with the assumption of more than one killer. That does lead to a lot of problematic situations like trying to fit in things like Curatolo, Nara, tow trucks, stomach contents, Quintavalle, and Meredith's cell phone records into some scenario that has Amanda and Raffaele participating with Rudy. Then there is the mountain of missing evidence of more than one attacker to consider as well as the very questionable two very fragile and debatable strands of DNA that are absolutely essential to connecting Raffaele and Amanda to this terrible crime. Then you have to come up with a legitimate motive and then there is the actual scenario of the assault to try to fathom. You asked earlier why we have trouble making sense of Massei. Short answer, he doesn't make sense.
 
From reading posts on another site it seems that the change of judges hasn't been reported in Italy, yet. Andrea Vogt is the first to post the news anywhere. The new judge is Claudio Pratillo Hellmann and he comes from the department of the Court of Perugia which deals with labor disputes.

According to an Italian poster: "Hellmann, Matteini Chiari, Costagliola are not "simple judges". They are "judges of the Court of Appeals", they have an higher rank than Massei, Cristiani, Mignini etc. etc. and across the years they have played many different roles in different Courts of different cities. Each of them surely has the experience necessary to lead a process like this."

According to the same poster it is impossible yet to tell if the change of judges is significant news or if the replacement of the judge is only because of a trivial reason.
 
There has been a change in judges for the appeals trial. Wonder what it means?

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/429327_knox01.html

The new judge assigned to Knox's case is no stranger to allegations of judicial error. In fact, he was one of three judges who, in 2000, overturned a controversial conviction in the stabbing murder of Cinzia Bruno, setting free a man who had been jailed for more than seven years.

Bruno's husband, Massimo Pisano, was convicted along with his lover in the stabbing death of Bruno, who was found in 1993 on the banks of the Tiber River, near Rome. He was sentenced to life in prison, a ruling upheld in all three phases of Italian court process, including the Supreme Court.

Then, a "revision" of the case by a three-man court of appeals panel, including Pratillo Hellman, freed Pisano after he had already served seven years, six months and 12 days behind bars.

The Bruno case is, of course, no indicator of how Pratillo Hellman might approach Knox's case. However, it shows a willingness to go against the judicial grain that is likely to please hopeful Knox supporters.

The new judge's initial approach to the case will become clear on the very first day of the trial, when he will have to decide a variety of issues, such as whether or not witnesses and evidence should be reheard or introduced.

That is good news!
 
Speaking of reality, let us compare the defense experts method of determining cell phone service and connections to that of the prosecution expert. Which results do you expect are more reality based? From Raffaele's appeal:

During the course of the trial, the experts of the scientific police and Dr. Pellero, defence consultant, presented their arguments to the Court on this issue.
The experts of the scientific police:
· formulated approximate hypotheses on the radio-electric coverage, displaying a map on which they reported the direction of radiation only of the cells engaged by the investigated phones and, in order to define the area served by these cells, traced ‘circles’ of position and radius without taking into account either the technical characteristics of the system of the telephone operator, or the orography of the territory, or any model of a scientific propagation, or the interaction of the neighbouring cells;
· only performed measurements on the field strength of the signals emitted by the cell phone network, without acquiring any of the elements transmitted by the network which condition the choice of cell involved, nor making reference to the selection criteria adopted by the cell phones;
· noted how, when carrying out field strength measurements:
a. even a movement of half a meter involves a significant change in the conditions of reception (p. 335 judgment);
b. the reception capacity of the cell phones is conditioned by the field strength of the signal transmitted by the cell, a strength which below -102 dBm renders the signal unusable for telecommunications (p. 335
judgment);
· carried out field strength measurements of the signal emitted by the cell phone network only in proximity to the places of investigative interest, as follows:
a. outside the building in Via della Pergola in the garden;
b. outside the building in Via della Pergola, in proximity to the window of Meredith Kercher’s room;
c. outside Raffaele Sollecito’s building;
d. in the garden of the building on Via Sperandio 5 bis.

Dr. Pellero, Sollecito’s defence consultant:
· acquired detailed data on the radio-electric coverage of the cells at the time of the crime directly from the source, the cell phone operators. This allowed it to be
demonstrated to the Court, on the basis of objective data, that the area of coverage of each cell is far from a regular geometric shape. Taking into account the technical characteristics of the systems, the orography of the territory and an appropriate model of scientific propagation, the telephone operator makes the area of coverage of each cell adopt the dimensions and the shape most able to serve its own customers, both in terms of quality and of density of traffic. This allowed the production of a detailed map, based on objective data which, also taking into account the interaction of all the cells present in the area of investigative interest, shows – with best approximation – the coverage area of each cell, or rather, the area within which, with maximum probability, the device which connected with each cell would be found;
· carried out field strength measurements of the signals emitted by the cell phone network, taking care to also acquire the elements transmitted by the cell phone network which condition the choice of which cell will be connected with, with reference to the selection criteria adopted by the cell phones (objective criteria fixed by binding Technical Regulations – ETSI Standards – knowledge of which was given to the Court, and which clearly indicate that the choice of cell is not solely a function of the field strength measured by the cell phone);
· carried out field strength measurements (including any incidental data) of the
interest, as follows:
a. outside the building on Via della Pergola, in the garden;
b. inside the building on Via della Pergola, more precisely in the kitchen-living room;
c. inside the building on Via della Pergola, in Meredith Kercher’s room;
d. inside the building of Raffaele Sollecito, in the kitchen-living room;
e. inside the building of Raffaele Sollecito, in the bedroom;
f. in the garden of the building on Via Sperandio 5 bis;
g. in Park S. Angelo, the place from which – beyond any doubt – Meredith Kercher’s cell phones were thrown;
h. all along the path between Via della Pergola and Via Sperandio 5 bis, capturing – about every 3 seconds - a new series of measurements and the GPS position of the instrument;
· averaged a great deal of the data acquired, in order to exclude any effect due to temporary irregularity (vehicle transit, etc.) and, finally, compared the results of the measurements according to the selection criteria of the cell set by the Technical Regulations in force, thus obtaining a clear and objective picture of each cell receivable in each site examined, with the evidence of which proved to be the best serving cell (that which would be chosen by the cell phone at the beginning of each communication).
In essence, the differences between the activities of the PM’s consultants and those of Dr. Pellero (consultant of Sollecito’s defence) appear very clear:
· the scientific police indicated an area of approximate coverage and carried out measurements devoid of the elements necessary to contextualize them with respect to the criterion applied by the mobile phones for the choice of the serving cell, limiting the surveys to instantaneous measurements in the vicinity of, but not coincident with, the places of investigative interest (for example, only outside of Meredith’s room and Raffaele’s building);
· Dr. Pellero displayed a detailed representation of the area of coverage, based on objective data acquired directly at the source from the cell phone operators; he made complete, exhaustive and repeatable measurements at the places of investigative interest (e.g. inside Meredith’s room and Raffaele’s building), extending the measurements also to other places of direct investigative interest
(for example, Parco Sant’Angelo, in the area from which Meredith’s cell phones were thrown into the garden of Lana’s house in Via Sperandio 5 bis).
Nonetheless, in the grounds for the judgment, only the results obtained by the scientific police were described as amongst the elements which contributed to the formation of the judgment, and there is no trace of the objective, complete and repeatable results obtained by Sollecito’s defence consultant.
 
I have stopped feeding the troll.

In recent weeks, Italy's center-right prime minister Silvio Berlusconi (himself facing numerous legal accusations) has charged that there is corruption among magistrates and has pushed for drastic changes in the judicial system that has sharply divided the already fragile governing coalition.

Some have suggested an Umbrian politician from Berlusconi's party is using the high-profile Knox case to exemplify the need for reform -- a political development that would throw another wrench into an already complicated and controversial case.


Wow! Amanda may come out of this a hero!

Now I think she has a good shot at getting off.
 
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I agree. IIRC one of the defence experts suggested it was an assault which escalated gradually, and given Rudy's alleged previous behaviour and the fact he was most likely surprised in the house by Meredith returning, I think that's quite a likely scenario. It seems much more probable that, let's say, she screamed and he rushed over to try to silence her and things progressed from there, than that he suddenly decided to rush in and murder her on the spur of the moment.

Another thing I disagree with in Charlie's scenario is the length of time the attack would have lasted. Although it might be possible to say that the three neck wounds were made within a short space of time from one another, I can't see how it's possible to say how long the assault might have lasted before that, since there would have been no signs of it. IMO, it's more likely there was a fairly extended period of time before the wounds were made, that they were made at a particular point during the struggle (probably when he was behind her and trying to remove her bra) and that the assault stopped at that point once it was evident how seriously she was injured. Rudy fetching the towels also fits better with this scenario.

At any rate, I don't see how it's possible to rule out the possibility of a more gradual assault which led (perhaps unintentionally) to murder. For me, one of the major problems with an attack that was over by, let's say, 21:05 is that I don't believe Rudy would've hung around for nearly an hour afterwards to take the cell phones. Looking at the evidence over-all, Rudy's alleged previous behaviour and the way the attack most likely started (as an interrupted burglary, not an intentional rape and murder) an assault which became gradually more serious over a period of, say, 30-40 minutes seems at least as likely as a very short deliberate attack.

I can well imagine a scenario where Meredith comes in at around 9.00pm and goes to her room (maybe via the fridge). Guede is in the large bathroom and tries to leave quietly via the front door - but he can't, because Meredith locked it behind her on her way in. Guede maybe starts pulling on the door, alerting Meredith, who comes to the doorway of her room to see what's going on. Guede demands the keys and Meredith says no way - she's calling the police. Guede then physically confronts Meredith in the doorway of her bedroom, pushing her back onto her bed, and a struggle for the phone(s) takes place.

As the struggle becomes physically violent, Guede's thoughts turn to sexual assault (which, as most psychiatrists will tell you, is more about power and control than it is about sexual gratification). He uses his knife to subdue Meredith and begins to remove her jeans. At this, Meredith tries to fight back, and is stabbed in the neck by Guede. He continues the assault - moving a pillow under Meredith to facilitate things. I believe that he may well have had sexual intercourse with the dying Meredith (as hideous an image as that conjures up), then he may well have ejaculated onto the pillow.

I think it's possible that at this point Guede does pause - he realises that he's clearly inflicted fatal wounds upon Meredith, which takes him somewhere he's never been before. I think he then might have gone to the small bathroom to get towels, and returned to try to staunch the blood flow from Meredith's neck. But as soon as he realised she was dead (or as good as dead), his self-preservation instinct returned, and he went back into the small bathroom to clean himself (and his clothing) of Meredith's blood.

So I think that Meredith may have been confronted by Guede within a couple of minutes of her return at 9.00pm. I think that the physical element would all have taken place very shortly thereafter, with the fatal wounds inflicted by 9.10pm. I think that once Guede had completed his sexual assault and gone to the bathroom, it would have been around 9.20pm, and Meredith would have been on the verge of death at this point. Guede might have stayed with the dying Meredith until shortly after 9.30pm (by which time she'd certainly have been dead if she was stabbed by 9.10pm). This gives him 20-25 minutes of cleaning himself up and thinking through what he was going to do from that point on. Collecting the phones, keys, credit cards and cash would have been among the last things he'd have done before leaving the cottage just after 10.00pm.

By the way, it's sad to think that all this played out almost exactly three years ago to the hour.....
 
I can certainly understand your uncertainty based on the case as a whole, if you start with the assumption of more than one killer. That does lead to a lot of problematic situations like trying to fit in things like Curatolo, Nara, tow trucks, stomach contents, Quintavalle, and Meredith's cell phone records into some scenario that has Amanda and Raffaele participating with Rudy. Then there is the mountain of missing evidence of more than one attacker to consider as well as the very questionable two very fragile and debatable strands of DNA that are absolutely essential to connecting Raffaele and Amanda to this terrible crime. Then you have to come up with a legitimate motive and then there is the actual scenario of the assault to try to fathom. You asked earlier why we have trouble making sense of Massei. Short answer, he doesn't make sense.
Today I was sad.

I'm at the beach, the sun is baking hot, a few of the crew are out riding waves, it feels good to be alive...

But yet I remembered a young gal whom I never knew, near the same age as my youngest sisiter, who so brutally had her life taken away on this day a few years ago. And so I thought about her. And the pain her family must live with.

In Meredith Kercher's memory, I realize once more that life is short, with no guarantees.
So tell someone that you care about them or love them today...

The flip side of the coin is that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito and their families too are suffering.
When I think of all that RoseMontague wrote a moment ago, I wonder of the court's decisson that has imprisoned them.

How is it that Miss Kercher, when she was brutally stabbed to her death and gave her blood as evidence to convict,
did not shed ANY of it upon Amanda Knox nor Raffaele Sollecito?

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/numbered_blood_drops.jpg

NOT 1 little bitty drop of her blood was found on these two. How?
Nor was any of Meredith's blood ever found on their shoes or clothing, in Amanda Knox's room, in Raffaele Sollecito's apartment, and these 2,
unlike Rudy Guede, did not leave town and then dispose of their clothing.

So I am sad today,
feeling sympathetic for 3 different families who suffer still from what happened in Perugia 3 years ago...
RWVBWL
 
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From the same link:

And of course Knox's own image in Italy is undergoing a renovation of sorts, with press about Girlanda's book describing the quirky, spontaneous Seattle girl as a deep and thoughtful mother- and wife-in-waiting whose prayers are so sincere the prison chaplain suggested she consider a future as a nun.

Saint Amanda!
 
From the same link:

Quote:
And of course Knox's own image in Italy is undergoing a renovation of sorts, with press about Girlanda's book describing the quirky, spontaneous Seattle girl as a deep and thoughtful mother- and wife-in-waiting whose prayers are so sincere the prison chaplain suggested she consider a future as a nun.

Saint Amanda!

It does seem that things are turning around for the better for both Amanda and Raffaele.
 
I have read that after rudy's final appeal he can be called to the stand as a "witness" in Amanda and Raffaele's appeal and he must answer the questions asked him. He will no longer be able to hide behind his status as an accused.

Is this true? Does anyone know for sure? It is very interesting along with the new judge.
 
Where Meredith was stabbed

As the struggle becomes physically violent, Guede's thoughts turn to sexual assault (which, as most psychiatrists will tell you, is more about power and control than it is about sexual gratification). He uses his knife to subdue Meredith and begins to remove her jeans. At this, Meredith tries to fight back, and is stabbed in the neck by Guede. He continues the assault - moving a pillow under Meredith to facilitate things. I believe that he may well have had sexual intercourse with the dying Meredith (as hideous an image as that conjures up), then he may well have ejaculated onto the pillow..


I agree with a lot of the rest of your scenario but this portion is not credible. MOST of the blood was found near the wardrobe and moving around the corner from it. There was blood near the desk (after the attack began by the bed). Steve Moore says MK was killed on her hands and knees from behind. Two stabs followed by a fatal stab/slash. Meredith was probably attacked further by the desk and then brought down on her hands and knees before stabbed.

She would have then moved while bleeding in the direction toward the wardrobe. Meredith aspirated blood on the wardrobe doors and has left finger marks on the wardrobe where she probably made a last attempt to stand up again. There is even more blood around the corner of the wardrobe by the boots and hot water bottle where her head came to rest. Her light blue jacket was also found by the wardrobe, pulled off of Meredith and inside out.

Rudy would have positioned her on her back as she started to fade and removed her jeans and socks, pushed her long sleeve t-shirt up and cut off her bra. There were bloody aspiration drops made on the bra before he cut it off. He would have sexually assaulted her at a point when she was no longer struggling and probably semi-conscious.

This photo shows the blood leading up to and around the wardrobe corner:
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1332

This photo show where she tried to grab the wardrobe:
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1334



By the way, it's sad to think that all this played out almost exactly three years ago to the hour.....

It is very sad. almost to the hour.....
 
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I can well imagine a scenario where Meredith comes in at around 9.00pm and goes to her room (maybe via the fridge). Guede is in the large bathroom and tries to leave quietly via the front door - but he can't, because Meredith locked it behind her on her way in. Guede maybe starts pulling on the door, alerting Meredith, who comes to the doorway of her room to see what's going on. Guede demands the keys and Meredith says no way - she's calling the police. Guede then physically confronts Meredith in the doorway of her bedroom, pushing her back onto her bed, and a struggle for the phone(s) takes place.

As the struggle becomes physically violent, Guede's thoughts turn to sexual assault (which, as most psychiatrists will tell you, is more about power and control than it is about sexual gratification). He uses his knife to subdue Meredith and begins to remove her jeans. At this, Meredith tries to fight back, and is stabbed in the neck by Guede. He continues the assault - moving a pillow under Meredith to facilitate things. I believe that he may well have had sexual intercourse with the dying Meredith (as hideous an image as that conjures up), then he may well have ejaculated onto the pillow.

I think it's possible that at this point Guede does pause - he realises that he's clearly inflicted fatal wounds upon Meredith, which takes him somewhere he's never been before. I think he then might have gone to the small bathroom to get towels, and returned to try to staunch the blood flow from Meredith's neck. But as soon as he realised she was dead (or as good as dead), his self-preservation instinct returned, and he went back into the small bathroom to clean himself (and his clothing) of Meredith's blood.

I think all of the above is possible (as, for that matter, is the scenario Charlie posted). The main area I disagree on - though only in the sense of thinking one scenario is a bit more likely than another - is the question of whether Guede would have continued after the wounds were made. Given that Guede had never been involved in anything like this before, that IMO the wounds were probably unintentional (at least, the seriousness of them), that it would have been obvious Meredith was badly injured immediately, and that he clearly did stop at some point and made some sort of effort to help her (however half-hearted...), I'm not sure we can say for certain that he would've continued the assault afterwards.

The one thing that would change my mind on this is if the stain on the pillow did turn out to be Guede's semen. I found Dancerne's argument convincing in this respect, though - Guede would probably have incorporated that into his story if it were the case. So at the moment I'm inclined to think the stain was something else. Obviously it should still be tested.

So I think that Meredith may have been confronted by Guede within a couple of minutes of her return at 9.00pm. I think that the physical element would all have taken place very shortly thereafter, with the fatal wounds inflicted by 9.10pm. I think that once Guede had completed his sexual assault and gone to the bathroom, it would have been around 9.20pm, and Meredith would have been on the verge of death at this point. Guede might have stayed with the dying Meredith until shortly after 9.30pm (by which time she'd certainly have been dead if she was stabbed by 9.10pm). This gives him 20-25 minutes of cleaning himself up and thinking through what he was going to do from that point on. Collecting the phones, keys, credit cards and cash would have been among the last things he'd have done before leaving the cottage just after 10.00pm.
Again, all quite possible. But again, I'm not sure we have the evidence to say with certainty it happened this way, rather than after a more prolonged assault - in fact the evidence of the cell phones still makes it more likely IMO that the T.O.D. was 21:30-22:00, simply because I still find it difficult to believe Guede would have hung around for any length of time at all after Meredith had died. Prior to the defence argument that the cell phones might well have been on the way to the garden at 22:13, I found even the 13 minute gap between calls problematic, in that the first calls were almost certainly made after the murder had happened - and why would he stay around in the house for another 15 minutes playing with the cell phones before leaving? Given that any of Meredith's housemates could've arrived home at any moment, I think he would've been out of there as soon as he could, probably shortly after she died.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't think we have the evidence to rule out a more prolonged, escalating attack, and that this scenario perhaps fits the overall sequence of events rather better (and I believe was also supported by at least one of the defence consultants). Mostly I think I was troubled by Charlie's certainty that it must have happened in the way he describes, when other scenarios are equally or perhaps more plausible.

By the way, it's sad to think that all this played out almost exactly three years ago to the hour.....

Absolutely. I hate the fact that believing a wrongful conviction has occurred in this case is twisted by some into meaning a lack of compassion for Meredith and her family. That argument is disgusting, manipulative and wrong, in my opinion.

R.I.P. Meredith.
 
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Nov 1st, anniversary of Meredith's death

Today I was sad.

I'm at the beach, the sun is baking hot, a few of the crew are out riding waves, it feels good to be alive...

But yet I remembered a young gal whom I never knew, near the same age as my youngest sisiter, who so brutally had her life taken away on this day a few years ago. And so I thought about her. And the pain her family must live with.

In Meredith Kercher's memory, I realize once more that life is short, with no guarantees.
So tell someone that you care about them or love them today...

The flip side of the coin is that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito and their families too are suffering.
When I think of all that RoseMontague wrote a moment ago, I wonder of the court's decisson that has imprisoned them.

How is it that Miss Kercher, when she was brutally stabbed to her death and gave her blood as evidence to convict,
did not shed ANY of it upon Amanda Knox nor Raffaele Sollecito?

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/numbered_blood_drops.jpg

NOT 1 little bitty drop of her blood was found on these two. How?
Nor was any of Meredith's blood ever found on their shoes or clothing, in Amanda Knox's room, in Raffaele Sollecito's apartment, and these 2,
unlike Rudy Guede, did not leave town and then dispose of their clothing.

So I am sad today,
feeling sympathetic for 3 different families who suffer still from what happened in Perugia 3 years ago...
RWVBWL



Very well said RWVBWL,

It is a time to be thoughtful of how much the death and aftermath of Meredith's murder has affected so many people.

It has certainly changed the way I think I think in regards to many things. I hope her family will someday see the truth that their lovely daughter Meredith was not murdered by her friends Amanda and Raffaele.

I should go and an enjoy the beach also today. :) It is a cold, gray and rainy beach here though. Still beautiful.
 
Today I was sad.

I'm at the beach, the sun is baking hot, a few of the crew are out riding waves, it feels good to be alive...

But yet I remembered a young gal whom I never knew, near the same age as my youngest sisiter, who so brutally had her life taken away on this day a few years ago. And so I thought about her. And the pain her family must live with.

In Meredith Kercher's memory, I realize once more that life is short, with no guarantees.
So tell someone that you care about them or love them today...

The flip side of the coin is that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito and their families too are suffering.
When I think of all that RoseMontague wrote a moment ago, I wonder of the court's decisson that has imprisoned them.

How is it that Miss Kercher, when she was brutally stabbed to her death and gave her blood as evidence to convict,
did not shed ANY of it upon Amanda Knox nor Raffaele Sollecito?

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/numbered_blood_drops.jpg

NOT 1 little bitty drop of her blood was found on these two. How?
Nor was any of Meredith's blood ever found on their shoes or clothing, in Amanda Knox's room, in Raffaele Sollecito's apartment, and these 2,
unlike Rudy Guede, did not leave town and then dispose of their clothing.

So I am sad today,
feeling sympathetic for 3 different families who suffer still from what happened in Perugia 3 years ago...
RWVBWL

That's beautifully put.

Also saddening is the pointless extended trauma caused to the Kercher family by the bogus judicial process, and the further shock they will inevitably suffer when Amanda and Raffaele are ultimately vindicated. There are some who think they should be spared all this by everyone keeping quiet about the injustice, but of course it's no fault of Amanda and Raffaele that they should fight for the truth.

Meredith's family have been cruelly betrayed by the Perugia police and judiciary.
 
I agree with a lot of the rest of your scenario but this portion is not credible. MOST of the blood was found near the wardrobe and moving around the corner from it. There was blood near the desk (after the attack began by the bed). Steve Moore says MK was killed on her hands and knees from behind. Two stabs followed by a fatal stab/slash. Meredith was probably attacked further by the desk and then brought down on her hands and knees before stabbed.

She would have then moved while bleeding in the direction toward the wardrobe. Meredith aspirated blood on the wardrobe doors and has left finger marks on the wardrobe where she probably made a last attempt to stand up again. There is even more blood around the corner of the wardrobe by the boots and hot water bottle where her head came to rest. Her light blue jacket was also found by the wardrobe, pulled off of Meredith and inside out.

Rudy would have positioned her on her back as she started to fade and removed her jeans and socks, pushed her long sleeve t-shirt up and cut off her bra. There were bloody aspiration drops made on the bra before he cut it off. He would have sexually assaulted her at a point when she was no longer struggling and probably semi-conscious.

This photo shows the blood leading up to and around the wardrobe corner:
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1332

This photo show where she tried to grab the wardrobe:
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1334





It is very sad. almost to the hour.....

Ah yes - I sort of abbreviated the movement dynamic of the attack: I didn't mean to imply that it all took place either on the bed or by the wardrobe. I imagine that poor Meredith might have made an attempt to escape via the door when she realised that Guede was intent on violence, and that the most serious portion of the attack may therefore have started next to her desk (which is next to the door).
 
She was on her back. Her head was resting on one of the boots in the corner by the wardrobe. Her left leg was stretched out with the foot sticking out from under the comforter and the right leg was bent.

Rudy Guede would have had to twist her sideways to cut off the bra and then turn her back.


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=158997610791385&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034

Or the strap was cut while she was still alive and before she was flipped on her back. Either way, It makes no sense to claim the body was staged when the bra was cut off before the body was in its final resting spot. It makes even less sense to turn her on her side, when you can just cut it in the front. So the logical conclusion is Meredith was face down on the floor when the bra was cut. If there is no evidence in the blood or the blood on the body to support her being face down when the bra was cut, then it means it was cut before the stabbing.
 
The main area I disagree on - though only in the sense of thinking one scenario is a bit more likely than another - is the question of whether Guede would have continued after the wounds were made. Given that Guede had never been involved in anything like this before, that IMO the wounds were probably unintentional (at least, the seriousness of them), that it would have been obvious Meredith was badly injured immediately, and that he clearly did stop at some point and made some sort of effort to help her (however half-hearted...), I'm not sure we can say for certain that he would've continued the assault afterwards.



I don't see there being any other explanation then Rudy continuing on to sexually assault MK after she was already bleeding. This can be seen by the great deal of blood by the wardrobe and moving around the corner from it. The amount of time MK was alive after the fatal neck wound is relatively short. There is blood near the wardrobe, aspiration marks on the wardrobe doors and finger marks on the inside of it. She was at the wardrobe before she was on her back with a pillow underneath her hips the way she was finally found.

The towels that were brought by Rudy were bloody, the comforter that was placed over her had severe blood marks also. These were all found where she was found lying on her back with her clothes removed and the pillow under her hips.

Photo of blood on the duvet:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/duvet.html
 
Charlie is there a photo of the bra (not the clasp)? Do you know what description was given to the part of the bra which the hooks of the clasp fastened into?

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/bra.jpg

I ran an autocorrect filter to get rid of the murky red overcast on this photo.

Notice the fine spray of blood drops on the cup that is not inverted. The bra was exposed when Meredith was alive and gasping for breath.

I am mindful of the fact that I am posting this photo on the third anniversary of Meredith's death. It seems appropriate to note that those of us who support Amanda and Raffaele also want justice for Meredith. But we believe the system has gotten this wrong, and the best hope for getting it right is by making it possible for people with a serious interest to study the forensic evidence.
 
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