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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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electronic data files and standard operating procedures

Alt+F4 said:
I have no idea....and neither do you.
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Alt+F4,

Last winter the Irish Times wrote of Greg Hampikian, “He is currently working with the family of Amanda Knox, the American student jailed in Italy last year for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.” Fiona Ness wrote, “The importance of DNA evidence in a conviction is highlighted in one of Hampikian’s cases - that of US student Amanda Knox.” These statements (using words like “working” and “cases”) indicate that a professional relationship exists between Dr. Hampikian and Ms. Knox’s defense team. I would bear this in mind when reading what Dr. Hampikian and the other eight scientists wrote about the electronic data files not being released.

Ms. Ness quoted Greg Hampikian, “‘The discovery rules in Italy are different to what I’m used to. It’s fairly routine in the US that I send a request and get what I want. But in the Knox case I haven’t been able to get a copy of the standard operating procedures of the lab and without that, it’s hard to see if they even followed their own guidelines.’ Evidence, Hampikian says, is a matter of science, to be reviewed, not protected.” (emphasis added)

Would you explain why you don’t take Chris Mellas at his word? Would you explain why you don’t take Ms. Biongiorno at her word in the appeal document? Would you explain why Sara Gino’s statements to the press failed to convince you. BTW, if you could provide me with a better translation of the section I quoted, I would be grateful. If you want to say that the evidence so presented so far does not convince you, it is fine by me. However, your earlier statement claiming that there is no evidence is simply untrue.
 
not sure what you mean

Alt+F4 said:
Well that answers one question at least. Mr. Moore has no experience in forensic evidence collection at a murder scene. I'd still like to see some evidence that the FBI has access to evidence in this case.
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What part of "I have investigated murders throughout the United States and the world." did you not understand?
 
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Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
Were the files released, yes or no?
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Alt+F4 said:
I have no idea....and neither do you.
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I have a pretty strong opinion that they were not based on the research I have done on this issue. My personal opinion is that the defense dropped the ball on this asking for all the files Stephanoni had rather than specifically asking for these particular files. When Stephanoni quoted a measurement that had not been provided to the defense the defense filed a motion and the court ordered her to turn over the rest of her files. They got 300 pages of out of order and unnumbered pages which included the "Too Low" information as well as the information that the Luminol prints had also all tested negative for blood with TMB. They filed a new motion after that stating they had still not received all the files and the court ruled they had enough.

I would love to have copies of these two motions and rulings but I have been unable to obtain them. If the defense team had the fsa files in their possession it would make sense that they would want these experts to be able to review them. Based on the information I have seen the experts don't have them. Can you think of a reason the defense team would not want this reviewed?
 
Quote from Halides1:

''…However, even by your own standards, I am dismayed that you also choose to ignore Raffaele Sollecito’s appeal, which details the lack of discovery on pages 51-57, a portion of which appears below…''

Alt+F4 said:
Is there a good English translation available? The Google translation is almost gibberish.
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Hi Alt + F4,

Perhaps Machiavelli might translate it for you if you asked nicely? :D

Or you could CONTINUE to ignore Raffaele Sollecito's appeal, even though Halides1 even pointed out the relevant pages and posted a portion!

:yikes:
 
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RoseMontague said:
Welcome Onofarar. Regarding your IIRC, I don't remember Mr. Moore stating he used his FBI contacts to obtain a copy of the video's. My personal opinion is that after he stated an interest in the case he was provided copies by some of the supporters of Amanda who had already obtained copies from Amanda's defense team. There is plenty of video out there and I know Charlie has posted quite a bit of it here in the past. I believe Mr. Moore when he said investigating violent crimes was his life and I understand his concerns after watching video of the evidence collection in this case just based on some of the clips I have seen.
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No, no, Rose! It's "SOP" for the Italian police to collect evidence in this slipshod and unprofessional fashion! I'm surprised you didn't know this!

BTW, who knew that it was popularity of visits which made web sites develop coding faults and go down? That must be why Google and Youtube are always down....... ;)
 
RoseMontague said:
I have a pretty strong opinion that they were not based on the research I have done on this issue. My personal opinion is that the defense dropped the ball on this asking for all the files Stephanoni had rather than specifically asking for these particular files. When Stephanoni quoted a measurement that had not been provided to the defense the defense filed a motion and the court ordered her to turn over the rest of her files. They got 300 pages of out of order and unnumbered pages which included the "Too Low" information as well as the information that the Luminol prints had also all tested negative for blood with TMB. They filed a new motion after that stating they had still not received all the files and the court ruled they had enough.

I would love to have copies of these two motions and rulings but I have been unable to obtain them. If the defense team had the fsa files in their possession it would make sense that they would want these experts to be able to review them. Based on the information I have seen the experts don't have them. Can you think of a reason the defense team would not want this reviewed?
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Interesting. How do you know tht the defense filed a new motion if you have been unable to obtain it? Also there is a big difference between someone saying they don't have access to all the files and someone saying the prosecution denied them the files.
 
 
Scorpion NITE said:
Or you could CONTINUE to ignore Raffaele Sollecito's appeal, even though Halides1 even pointed out the relevant pages and posted a portion!
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Ummm....how am I ignoring the appeal when I asked for a good English translation of the portion Chris posted? :rolleyes:
 
Alt+F4 said:
Interesting. How do you know tht the defense filed a new motion if you have been unable to obtain it? Also there is a big difference between someone saying they don't have access to all the files and someone saying the prosecution denied them the files.
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I agree with you there. This has been a point of frustration for me having researched this extensively and not being able to answer it absolutely. Frank has two posts detailing the court drama on these two motions. Comodi has also made 2 different statements on this issue at one point saying the defense got everything they had and another saying they got all they needed (paraphrasing as I don't have these handy on this computer). There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the defense experts do not have the fsa files including comments made in their testimony as well as comments by these other experts reviewing the information after the trial was concluded.
 
Drs. Krane and Gilder were refused

Alt+F4 said:
None of them [Krane, Gilder, etc.] was personally refused any DNA data from either the prosecution or the court.



I thought you personally know the Knox/Mellas family.



In your link she is complaining about the prosecution providing amplified DNA samples with the dates missing. She says nothing about being refused any DNA files.



Is there a good English translation available? The Google translation is almost gibberish.
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Alt+F4,

1. What do you mean “personally?” I discussed this at length with Dan Krane and Jason Gilder via a number of emails. I have quoted from those emails here and on my blog. They asked for the files via the defense attorneys and did not get them. If you don’t believe me, ask them yourself.

2. I have asked the family questions via email. I have not met them.

3. If she had the electronic data files (.fsa files), she would have the dates. The dates are part of these files. Not having the dates necessarily implies not having the files.

4. Do you not speak Italian? Then why did you ask for court motions that you could not read? BTW, a friend of mine cleaned up the machine-generated translation a bit. This sometimes helps.
 
I remember when I first read about the DNA evidence. I thought, since she was living there, they surely must have found the DNA in really unusual places to make a valid evidence out of it.

Well, not only not a one trace of Amanda's DNA in the room or on the victim's body, but actually no trace at all. No footprints, no fingerprints, nothing.

No wonder we're getting noisy party tickets and rather bland sex life brought up here time after time instead.
 
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halides1 said:
1. What do you mean “personally?” I discussed this at length with Dan Krane and Jason Gilder via a number of emails. I have quoted from those emails here and on my blog. They asked for the files via the defense attorneys and did not get them. If you don’t believe me, ask them yourself.
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By personally I mean that Dan Krane and Jason Gilder were not personally refused any files by the court or the prosecution.

2. I have asked the family questions via email. I have not met them.
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Ok, did Chris Mellas provide you any evidence that the data was refused by the court or prosecution?

3. If she had the electronic data files (.fsa files), she would have the dates. The dates are part of these files. Not having the dates necessarily implies not having the files.
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Again, in the link you posted she never said that she was denied any files. Don't put words in her mouth.

4. Do you not speak Italian? Then why did you ask for court motions that you could not read? BTW, a friend of mine cleaned up the machine-generated translation a bit. This sometimes helps.
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Good gosh, when did I ask for a court motion in Italian? If you have a good translation in English then post it.
 
Alt+F4 said:
By personally I mean that Dan Krane and Jason Gilder were not personally refused any files by the court or the prosecution.

Ok, did Chris Mellas provide you any evidence that the data was refused by the court or prosecution?
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Oh, now I get what you mean - the family and lawyers only pretended to file the request and then lied to Krane and Gilder to put the illustrious court in bad light in front of international public. How devious! And you looked straight through them. You think we should contact Mignini about it?
 
Katody Matrass said:
Oh, now I get what you mean - the family and lawyers only pretended to file the request and then lied to Krane and Gilder to put the illustrious court in bad light in front of international public. How devious! And you looked straight through them. You think we should contact Mignini about it?
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I'm not sure Mignini speaks English but you could give it a try.
 
RoseMontague said:
I agree with you there. This has been a point of frustration for me having researched this extensively and not being able to answer it absolutely. Frank has two posts detailing the court drama on these two motions. Comodi has also made 2 different statements on this issue at one point saying the defense got everything they had and another saying they got all they needed (paraphrasing as I don't have these handy on this computer). There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the defense experts do not have the fsa files including comments made in their testimony as well as comments by these other experts reviewing the information after the trial was concluded.
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I think the most honest answer is that based on the information publically available it is uncertain if the prosecution denied DNA data to the defense.
 
Katody Matrass said:
Oh, now I get what you mean - the family and lawyers only pretended to file the request and then lied to Krane and Gilder to put the illustrious court in bad light in front of international public. How devious! And you looked straight through them. You think we should contact Mignini about it?
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That's an interesting point. If that was the case then why didn't Mignini include that in his slander suit against them? He slapped them on both the family and at least one of the defense lawyers, did he not?
 
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