Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Justinian2]

All of us could frame AK and RS. Just surreptitiously get a DNA sample from each. DNA is on hair roots. Look for hair with roots in the shower, sink, or interrogation room. Then chop up the root and mix it with a drop of very diluted water soluble glue. Next we paint it on a knife or a bra clasp. It would be totally invisible to the naked eye.

Once the forensic lab is given the props, they would discover the 'evidence' we've fabricated. After that we act like magicians. We concoct a story to distract the attention of the audience. Presto! Out of the magic hat come two guilty people.

The country that framed the innocent people could trade the framed ‘guilty’ people for captured spies.

My point is only that faming a suspect is so easy that even a child could do it. The great Randi could, if he wanted, pull so much evidence out of his magic hat that nobody would ever suspect they were innocent.

 

[samba]

I know certainly more about this criminal investigation.
I also know more about Italian law, courts, and reality.

And I think the issue is that Steve Moore is using his experience in investigating hundreds of cases and applying logic to look at this case. Very few people seem to be doing that. How are you being realistic and he isn't?

 

[el buscador]

And I think the issue is that Steve Moore is using his experience in investigating hundreds of cases and applying logic to look at this case. Very few people seem to be doing that. How are you being realistic and he isn't?

But samba, I think perhaps Machiavelli is saying that reality is different in Italy, along with Italian law and the courts. Don't you think he has some valid points here?

 

[samba]

But samba, I think perhaps Machiavelli is saying that reality is different in Italy, along with Italian law and the courts. Don't you think he has some valid points here?

Machiavelli's original post had to do with the evidence in this trial and his comment was "I may add, my opinions probably are not based on ignorance (contrarily from people like Steve Moore). So my question was referring to the idea of being realistic with respect to the evidence...and why he thought he was and Steve Moore wasn't.

When it comes to processes like Italian law and their court system (or any countries law/system), that's a totally different issue. "Reality" vs. right/wrong may be very different. His points might be valid in that regard.

 

[Onofarar]

IIRC Moore stated he used his FBI contacts to obtain a copy of a 2.5 hour video of the forensic evidence collection in the cottage. I don't recall if this was a video of the collection made in early November or 6 weeks later in mid-December - although if I had to pick one I think it was the December collection. IIRC it was this video that really raised many doubts in his mind as he saw collection techniques and methods that would get a forensic techniocian fired (pehaps some hyperbole here which unfortunately SM is prone to use) if he worked for the FBI.
My question - have you viewed this tape as well - not just excerpts but the entire 150 minutes?

 

[Alt+F4]

IIRC Moore stated he used his FBI contacts to obtain a copy of a 2.5 hour video of the forensic evidence collection in the cottage. I don't recall if this was a video of the collection made in early November or 6 weeks later in mid-December - although if I had to pick one I think it was the December collection. IIRC it was this video that really raised many doubts in his mind as he saw collection techniques and methods that would get a forensic techniocian fired (pehaps some hyperbole here which unfortunately SM is prone to use) if he worked for the FBI.
My question - have you viewed this tape as well - not just excerpts but the entire 150 minutes?

Could you provide more information on this? How did the FBI gain access to this video? What is Steve Moore's background regarding the collection of forensic evidence at a murder scene? It was my understanding that he worked on terrorism cases, not murders. Why didn't the defense make this video available to forensic experts in the United States?

 

[Amazer]

Could you provide more information on this? How did the FBI gain access to this video? What is Steve Moore's background regarding the collection of forensic evidence at a murder scene? It was my understanding that he worked on terrorism cases, not murders. Why didn't the defense make this video available to forensic experts in the United States?

I hope you aren't really expecting them to provide some relevant evidence. At best you'll get some unsupported claims and that will be the end of it.

 

[Justinian2]

Guede looks intimidating in this photo:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/26/article-1323765-0BC4757B000005DC-90_468x528.jpg

Hayden looks a bit like Amanda in this photo:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/25/article-0-0BC4752F000005DC-328_468x369.jpg

 

[Scorpion NITE]

Guede looks intimidating in this photo:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/26/article-1323765-0BC4757B000005DC-90_468x528.jpg

Hayden looks a bit like Amanda in this photo:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/25/article-0-0BC4752F000005DC-328_468x369.jpg

P.S. The Guede one looks more like Patrick in stature?


There are some more here (I posted the link yesterday)

http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/news/ce...anda-knox.html

^^ Forget that one ^^ - the link's not working now as they must have removed it!!

Here are some more though.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...manda-Knox-hours-Meredith-Kerchers-death.html

 

[Draca]

FBI Steve Moore

Could you provide more information on this? How did the FBI gain access to this video? What is Steve Moore's background regarding the collection of forensic evidence at a murder scene? It was my understanding that he worked on terrorism cases, not murders. Why didn't the defense make this video available to forensic experts in the United States?

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI4.html

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI.html


"My name is Steve Moore; I retired from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 2008 after 25 years as a Special Agent and Supervisory Special Agent. My entire investigative experience was in the investigation and prosecution of violent crime, from murder to mass-murder and terrorism. In my last such assignment, I was the Supervisor of the Al Qaeda Investigations squad, following which I ran the FBI’s Los Angeles-based “Extra-Territorial Squad”, which was tasked with responding to any acts of terrorism against the United States in Asia and Pakistan. I have investigated murders throughout the United States and the world.

In my career, I have worked closely with the Indonesian National Police (INP), the Pakistan Rangers, the Sindh Police (Karachi, Pakistan), the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) of the Philippines, the Philippine National Police (PNP), the Royal Bahamas Police Force (RBP) and various police agencies in Greece, Thailand, and other countries. I have lectured on investigative techniques and terrorism at the International Law Enforcement Academy (ILEA) in Bangkok, the Pacific Training Institute in Angeles City, Philippines and Honolulu, and terrorism conferences throughout the US and other countries. I have taught officers from such diverse countries as the People’s Republic of China, Bermuda, Brunei, Taiwan, Malaysia and Sri Lanka. I also served as a (term) Legal Attaché at a U.S. Consulate overseas. I do not look down at foreign police forces. I appreciate the differences in our approaches, but what is never different between our agencies is the reliance on logic, reason and credible evidence.

I have spent years participating in prosecutions; two years on one death-penalty trial alone. There are several people who will die in prison, in part because of investigations that I have conducted and testified to. I have received four awards from the United States Attorney’s Office for excellence in investigation. I was nominated in 2002 for the FBI’s top award for Terrorism Investigations. I am educated in the art of evaluating evidence and testimony. To put it bluntly, I know “**** from Shinola”.

Take my word for this. Investigation of violent crimes is my life; not a hobby. The case the Italian prosecutors are trying to sell you is not the beautiful thing it appears to some to be. It’s a junker all cleaned-up and waiting to be purchased by naïve people. And the jury in Perugia bought it."

 

[Alt+F4]

Were the files released, yes or no?

I have no idea....and neither do you.

 

[Alt+F4]

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI4.html

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI.html

Well that answers one question at least. Mr. Moore has no experience in forensic evidence collection at a murder scene. I'd still like to see some evidence that the FBI has access to evidence in this case.

 

[Alt+F4]

I hope you aren't really expecting them to provide some relevant evidence. At best you'll get some unsupported claims and that will be the end of it.

Well if that is going to be what happens, then it speaks volumes.

 

[Justinian2]

P.S. The Guede one looks more like Patrick in stature?


There are some more here (I posted the link yesterday)

http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/news/ce...anda-knox.html

^^ Forget that one ^^ - the link's not working now as they must have removed it!!

Here are some more though.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...manda-Knox-hours-Meredith-Kerchers-death.html

Here is the link to the page with the photos. Did they get the picture of Guede wrong? Wouldn't be the first time the news got it wrong! The 'Guede' (or Patrick?) picture is near the bottom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...anda-Knox-movie-Meredith-Kerchers-murder.html

 

[Draca]

Well that answers one question at least. Mr. Moore has no experience in forensic evidence collection at a murder scene. I'd still like to see some evidence that the FBI has access to evidence in this case.

"None is so blind as those who will not see"

 

[Alt+F4]

"None is so blind as those who will not see"

Ok, got it. You have zero evidence that:

1. the video exists;
2. the FBI had any contact with the defense or prosecution;
3. Steve Moore has any experience in forensic evidence collection in a murder case.

 

[Kaosium]

But samba, I think perhaps Machiavelli is saying that reality is different in Italy, along with Italian law and the courts. Don't you think he has some valid points here?

I think that's exactly what he's saying, and he does have a point. I recall reading something along these lines months back elsewhere. What matters in an FBI investigation is not really all that germane to Italy, thus disparaging their forensic teams is kinda irrelevant: the evidence collected is not going to be used in a court in the United States, thus it's not subject to the same standards. However Steve Moore and those like him can do one thing very important, expel any doubts that they might have actually been guilty. This is not going to make him a popular fellow in certain quarters, and doubly so in some.

However I'm getting the feeling that forensics doesn't matter as much in an Italian court, it's not as much whether they can prove anything but whether the defendants actions 'look guilty.' That's why I suspect the longer this goes on the worse it is going to end for everyone involved.

 

[RoseMontague]

IIRC Moore stated he used his FBI contacts to obtain a copy of a 2.5 hour video of the forensic evidence collection in the cottage. I don't recall if this was a video of the collection made in early November or 6 weeks later in mid-December - although if I had to pick one I think it was the December collection. IIRC it was this video that really raised many doubts in his mind as he saw collection techniques and methods that would get a forensic techniocian fired (pehaps some hyperbole here which unfortunately SM is prone to use) if he worked for the FBI.
My question - have you viewed this tape as well - not just excerpts but the entire 150 minutes?

Welcome Onofarar. Regarding your IIRC, I don't remember Mr. Moore stating he used his FBI contacts to obtain a copy of the video's. My personal opinion is that after he stated an interest in the case he was provided copies by some of the supporters of Amanda who had already obtained copies from Amanda's defense team. There is plenty of video out there and I know Charlie has posted quite a bit of it here in the past. I believe Mr. Moore when he said investigating violent crimes was his life and I understand his concerns after watching video of the evidence collection in this case just based on some of the clips I have seen.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I would attribute a probability score. If I had to express compatibility with a number, I would judge the print is of the kind of more than 90% compatible with Sollecito,

and less than 10% compatible with Guede.

I would also like to see an overlay of Amanda's print with the one on the bathmat, just to make sure I am not missing the obvious.

You asked for it, not my fault

 

[Alt+F4]

You are free to ignore my reporting of discussions with Dan Krane, Jason Gilder, and other authors and cosigners of the open letter.

None of them was personally refused any DNA data from either the prosecution or the court.

I don't think that court motions are regularly made available to the public.

I thought you personally know the Knox/Mellas family.

You are free to ignore that Sara Gino said that as of 26 September 2009, she did not have the dates on which the tests were run (that information would have been in the electronic data files). She was a defense witness.

In your link she is complaining about the prosecution providing amplified DNA samples with the dates missing. She says nothing about being refused any DNA files.

However, even by your own standards, I am dismayed that you also choose to ignore Raffaele Sollecito’s appeal, which details the lack of discovery on pages 51-57, a portion of which appears below

Is there a good English translation available? The Google translation is almost gibberish.