Public Education is a Socialist Monopoly

[majamin]

I flagged one of his/her posts but am not sure if it was one cited by Vorticity. The problem is not, IMO, the vitriol in any one post but the fact that no matter the thread topic, JQ will inevitably go off topic to rag on the evil liburels. So the issue is spam.

That very well could be it. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[bozman]

I flagged one of his/her posts but am not sure if it was one cited by Vorticity. The problem is not, IMO, the vitriol in any one post but the fact that no matter the thread topic, JQ will inevitably go off topic to rag on the evil liburels. So the issue is spam.

The constant rule quoting was a but much too, but I don't think it's an offense. Playing deputy-mod might qualify though.

 

[Travis]

It really is. Teachers get it from all sides; they're convenient scapegoats for administrators, politicians, parents, and students.

Definitely. Both my parents worked in schools so I got to see the nuts and bolts of those organizations. Teachers having breakdowns was disturbingly common.

 

[SezMe]

The constant rule quoting was a but much too, but I don't think it's an offense. Playing deputy-mod might qualify though.

I'm not aware of such a position. Perhaps you can cite where reporting a possible violation of the MA qualifies one to be a "deputy-mod". Do I get a nifty badge? Three brownie points? Frequent-whiner miles? Do tell.

 

[bozman]

I'm not aware of such a position. Perhaps you can cite where reporting a possible violation of the MA qualifies one to be a "deputy-mod". Do I get a nifty badge? Three brownie points? Frequent-whiner miles? Do tell.

Sorry, I was thinking of another site I post on. They tend to look down on people who constantly quote rules and want everyone to leave it to the mods.

And I'll SHARE my brownies with you (since you're a fellow Californian ), but you can't have all of them. And that includes the brownie points.

 

[SezMe]

Sorry, I was thinking of another site I post on. They tend to look down on people who constantly quote rules and want everyone to leave it to the mods.

No sweat.

And I'll SHARE my brownies with you (since you're a fellow Californian ), but you can't have all of them. And that includes the brownie points.

Damn. Maybe when Gov. Moonbeam is back in office there will be plenty of brownies to go around.

 

[Aitch]

Damn. Maybe when Gov. Moonbeam is back in office there will be plenty of brownies to go around.

I hope you mean these and not these or, unless things are worse out west than I thought, these!

 

[moebob]

I work in an Elementary School in upstate N.Y. I am the Cook-manager. We are a very small school. I believe we have under 600 students. I have made friends with some of the teachers. They deal with all the same kids that I do. I watch how they all work. They all have different styles, which is perfict! Different strokes, for different folks. Some of them have been there long enough, that when they promote, they request certain teachers, for certain kids, that they think will connect better! I think that is a beautiful, caring, thing to do! On the other side, we also have teachers, that have more credentuals, and have been higher educated, but they don't teach well! You could be Albert Einstien, but if you can't explain it to a child, then what good are you?

 

[NobbyNobbs]

This just in: "Half of all teachers perform below median ability!"
And in related news, "Fifty percent of educators report above average income"

1.
2. No, schools are NOT using money correctly. Their administrative staffs are bloated. They keep incompetent teachers. And they pay them too much. At my district, teachers top out at over $95,000 for 9 months work.
Sickening, particularly when teachers graduate in the bottom third of their college classes, on average.
it.

I posted this in a different thread awhile ago, but it's quite relevant.

did this once before when I was teaching, out of curiousity, but I'll do it again.

Mayday, suppose you get a VERY generous starting offer of 40K a year. School starts at 7:30 and lets out at 3, but teachers needto be there at 7 and usually stay until4, longer if they are involved in after-school activities. That's a 9 hour day. When you go home, you have to grade papers, write lesson plans, and prepare materials for the next day. This takes a minimum of 2 hours, making it an 11 hour day. There are 180 days in the school year.

180*11=1980 hours. So far.

Not all of that lesson planning gets completed during the week. I estimate I averaged 3 hours each weekend on schoolwork. There are about 36 weeks in a school year.

36*3=108
1980+108=2088 hours. So far.

Our school had two weeks in August for orientation and preparation, and one week in June for wrap-up. That's another 15 days at 8 hours each.

15*8=120
2088+120=2208 hours. So far.

As mentioned before, you have maintain certification. I worked at a private school and didn't have to, so I'd appreciate other teachers verifying or correcting this, but I think you need 40 hours of classes a year.

2208+40=2248 hours
40000/2248=17.79 dollars an hour

Again, that's with an absurdly high starting salary and no extra duties. Can you make 70K a year teaching? Sure. After 25 years.

I don't know how nursing compares but I'd be interested in seeing a similar breakdown. Regardless, one thing is certain. Only a fool goes into teaching for the money.

Mayday, you just may be that fool.

FWIW, I was a physics teacher. At a private school. No union. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about vouchers. And my kids go to public school. Stick that in your bell curve and smoke it.

... married ... and we are madly in love.

Damn. There go my chances.

 

[uruk]

I'm involved with a public school teacher, and from what I hear, it's "All work and no appreciation".

Amen to that brother! The teacher gets blamed for everything that is wrong with the education system dispite the fact that teachers are only employees. Teachers do not make the policy decisions, or budgetary decicisions, or the curriculum standards. (Oddly, it is usually MBAs that make these decisions. Most schoolboards are made up of people who's only experiance with education is having gone to school; see the Texas school board.)

It is easy to blame the teacher. We are the low man on the totem pole. Administration never blame themselves for any incompetency or poor judgement they may exhibit and no elected official would ever blame parents for thier apathy. So that leaves the teachers as a prime scapegoat for everything that is wrong with the system.

Teachers are also a popular target of the teaparty because of the unions. With everything that teachers have to put up with being at the bottom of what I like to call the "fecal funnel" (because the crap rolls down on us from all sides), is it a wonder why we band together when no one will defend us?

 

[blutoski]

There happened to be an article out today discussing this subject called, "The Myth of Charter Schools," regarding several films such as "Waiting for Superman" out right now regarding charter vs public schools:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/myth-charter-schools/

Some highlights:

My only concern is that parental satisfaction may not be the best way to evaluate school performance either. (This is a problem in healthfraud as well: patients rave about their quacks all the way to an early grave.)

I also recommend a close look at the database for selection bias.

I was able to find a bit of a loophole in the private/public comparisons often profferred here in BC by the Fraser Institute and some other freemarket operations. There is a tendency to survey only current private schools, which means the ones that failed at the end of last year are not part of a comparison.

Parents who salvaged their kids from a closed/bankrupt school are not being asked to evaluate it, because their kids are enrolled in a different school right now. The worst private schools are often not even part of these comparisons, which gives an inaccurate result.

 

[JonathanQuick]

On top of that, pretty insulting wages. It's not even remotely proportional to the service they provide.

Then why are there hundreds of applications for jobs as teachers, hmmm?

Our local school district pays up to $95,000 for 9 months of work. And the benefits are super, far better than social security.

The "service they provide" varies wildly, thanks to teachers' unions which always insist on keeping even the most incompetent of teachers.

Shame on teachers for this despicable nonsense. Shame on them all.
What cowards.

A teacher made such a comment to some of his students a year or two ago.
It was the same old poormouth claim the public has been subjected to for decades, and his students passed it on in a prominent newspaper article. So I went to the nearest public school and took pictures of the cars in the lot.

Wow.

Brand new BMWs, Mercedes, Lexuses, Volvos, and other high-end cars.

Then I went to the District headquarters, and photographed those PLUS two new Jaguars.

I sent all these digital photos to the subject teacher, the board of education, the district bigwigs, and the newspaper.

The original teacher making the Big Lie was terribly embarrassed and claimed he was just trying to be "clever with words."

His "clever with words" is what any objective person would call "a lie."

Teachers are not supposed to lie and misrepresent, but they do all the time.

The biggest lie of all is the poormouth claim, followed by the pretense that they could make SO MUCH MORE MONEY in the private sector.

 

[majamin]

Then why are there hundreds of applications for jobs as teachers, hmmm?

Certainly, there are more than hundreds of applications for teaching jobs ...

Our local school district pays up to $95,000 for 9 months of work. And the benefits are super, far better than social security.

The "service they provide" varies wildly, thanks to teachers' unions which always insist on keeping even the most incompetent of teachers.

Wildly? Do you have any proof of how wild (varied) this is?

Shame on teachers for this despicable nonsense. Shame on them all.
What cowards.

So, the teachers are behind all of this? A mass collusion to teach poorly and getting paid well for it?

A teacher made such a comment to some of his students a year or two ago.
It was the same old poormouth claim the public has been subjected to for decades, and his students passed it on in a prominent newspaper article. So I went to the nearest public school and took pictures of the cars in the lot.

Wow.

Brand new BMWs, Mercedes, Lexuses, Volvos, and other high-end cars.

Then I went to the District headquarters, and photographed those PLUS two new Jaguars.

I sent all these digital photos to the subject teacher, the board of education, the district bigwigs, and the newspaper.

The original teacher making the Big Lie was terribly embarrassed and claimed he was just trying to be "clever with words."

His "clever with words" is what any objective person would call "a lie."

Teachers are not supposed to lie and misrepresent, but they do all the time.

That's quite an extraordinary story and situation. I hope you don't think that the state of wealth in that school is common.

The biggest lie of all is the poormouth claim, followed by the pretense that they could make SO MUCH MORE MONEY in the private sector.

Some private schools do offer better pay, so what? If I'm making less than 50k per year as a teacher, wouldn't it be plausible to want to switch to a school that pays better?

 

[Doubt]

Our local school district pays up to $95,000 for 9 months of work. And the benefits are super, far better than social security.

I have asked you several times in this thread for evidence about the 95k a year. You have ignored this request. Evidence please. There is no reason for anyone here to take your word for it. Failure to support this assertion looks dishonest.

Put up or shut up. If you have no evidence, just say so.

BTW, One of the reasons I want the info is to see if I can compare it to local demographic info.

 

[Garrison0fMars]

Then why are there hundreds of applications for jobs as teachers, hmmm?

Our local school district pays up to $95,000 for 9 months of work. And the benefits are super, far better than social security.

The "service they provide" varies wildly, thanks to teachers' unions which always insist on keeping even the most incompetent of teachers.

Shame on teachers for this despicable nonsense. Shame on them all.
What cowards.

A teacher made such a comment to some of his students a year or two ago.
It was the same old poormouth claim the public has been subjected to for decades, and his students passed it on in a prominent newspaper article. So I went to the nearest public school and took pictures of the cars in the lot.

Wow.

Brand new BMWs, Mercedes, Lexuses, Volvos, and other high-end cars.

Then I went to the District headquarters, and photographed those PLUS two new Jaguars.

I sent all these digital photos to the subject teacher, the board of education, the district bigwigs, and the newspaper.

The original teacher making the Big Lie was terribly embarrassed and claimed he was just trying to be "clever with words."

His "clever with words" is what any objective person would call "a lie."

Teachers are not supposed to lie and misrepresent, but they do all the time.

The biggest lie of all is the poormouth claim, followed by the pretense that they could make SO MUCH MORE MONEY in the private sector.

Translation : I'm a right wing blowhard who just shouts out nonsensical rantings. No one's going to take you seriously if you continue that.

 

[bikerdruid]

I have asked you several times in this thread for evidence about the 95k a year. You have ignored this request. Evidence please. There is no reason for anyone here to take your word for it. Failure to support this assertion looks dishonest.

Put up or shut up. If you have no evidence, just say so.

BTW, One of the reasons I want the info is to see if I can compare it to local demographic info.

i am a retired teacher in northern alberta, canada.
my current salary, with 6 years of university, and maximum experience grid, would currently be just over $100,000.
not bad for 200 days of work per year. (the teaching year in alberta)

 

[ria_rokz]

i am a retired teacher in northern alberta, canada.
my current salary, with 6 years of university, and maximum experience grid, would currently be just over $100,000.
not bad for 200 days of work per year. (the teaching year in alberta)

What school division? I will be stepping into the education field as a teacher in northern Alberta, Canada, and my starting salary will be just under 50,000 based on zero years experience and four years of university. Of course, cost of living is pretty high so that's not too spectacular. If I take a full-time job, I can expect 11+ hour days, including at least one weekend day, and using at least half of the summer to prepare yearly plans, unit plans, and gather resources - I believe one of the other posters referred to this.

To get slightly back on topic, I can speak as a person currently undergoing teacher training that a shift is starting to occur. We are starting to get away from knowledge-based education and teaching students to be effective critical thinkers (I think we can all agree from our experiences on these boards that many people are seriously lacking this skill).

The difficulty is that most of us were taught in a system that valued knowledge more than the ability to think, and as the saying goes, "old habits die hard". The paradigm shift is starting but the transition will take some time.

 

[JonathanQuick]

GRADE F FOR ALL OF YOU.

Ha, ha, ha...be as jealous as you want to be. I have my $86,000 a year salary, 14 weeks paid vacation a year and a 7 hour work day.

Look, another poor, poor, pitiful, overworked, underpaid teacher.

Q.E.D.


I should be jealous of YOU?

I paid more than that in taxes two years ago.
Then I quit working. My investments were making more than I was.
A lot more.

I had an account with a well-known investment manager, but as good as he was at beating the indices, my other accounts not under his control were outperforming him under my direction.

For example, I forwarded him a Wall Street Journal article encouraging Americans to pull investments from international companies which invest in countries sponsoring terrorism. One such company is Total Fina S.A., ticker symbol TOT.

He would not do it.

So I ordered him to sell all my TOT.
I had to sign paperwork since my decision might have untoward consequences on the performance of my portfolio.

Done.

In place of TOT, he purchased BHP for me.

One year later, TOT had risen 20%. Uh oh.
How did BHP do in the same period?
Up around 70%.

His clients lost many millions of dollars when he dismissed the WSJ and the best interests of not just America but the world. And so did he.

I comment on this to preclude the anticipated rebuttals from people who will no doubt attack me as a liar. This is a favorite tactic of the left - lying about the individual, instead of responding to what he said.

 

[JonathanQuick]

Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
I have asked you several times in this thread for evidence about the 95k a year. You have ignored this request. Evidence please. There is no reason for anyone here to take your word for it. Failure to support this assertion looks dishonest.

Put up or shut up. If you have no evidence, just say so.

BTW, One of the reasons I want the info is to see if I can compare it to local demographic info.

i am a retired teacher in northern alberta, canada.
my current salary, with 6 years of university, and maximum experience grid, would currently be just over $100,000.
not bad for 200 days of work per year. (the teaching year in alberta)

Funny that no leftist EVER questions the veracity of a fellow lefty.

Doubt doesn't ask YOU to "put up or shut up." Only me.
Such is the integrity, the fairness, the honesty of the left.

As if HIS investigations would be fair and objective, much less conclusive.

 

[JonathanQuick]

///

To get slightly back on topic, I can speak as a person currently undergoing teacher training that a shift is starting to occur. We are starting to get away from knowledge-based education and teaching students to be effective critical thinkers (I think we can all agree from our experiences on these boards that many people are seriously lacking this skill).
///

If you are referring to teachers as seriously lacking in "this skill" (knowledge-based education and teaching students to be effective critical thinkers), I agree.

New York City schools were featured on a national news investigation a few years ago, and they showed a huge building where hundreds of incompetent teachers were housed daily. They teach nobody. They do whatever they want. They cannot be fired because of the teachers' union.

It is disgraceful. What have teachers done to correct this abomination?

It is widespread throughout America, this inability to fire incompetent teachers.