Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RWVBWL]

Indeed. It seems an appropriate time to mention that Italy ranks 63rd on the World Corruption Index, joint with Saudi Arabia, making it the most corrupt country in Europe except for Greece, IIRC.

Hi Withnail1969,
Your post brought to my mind an article I was reading the other night when I stopped at "Pancho's Tacos" in Santa Monica to grab a bite to eat.

The only newspaper they had in the joint was the current Oct. 20-26, 2010 issue, volume 20, issue 40.

Reading thru the 20th year of this college paper,
I came to an article named "Andalucia Awaits", by Dov Rudnick
"Whenever I flirt with the notion of learning another language, I am reminded of the words of an old college professor:
"If you really want to learn a new language, you must fall in love with the culture."
In other words, if one hopes to grasp the heart and soul of a foreign tongue, the good sudent must pursue it with lustfull abandon.
The question of which language to pursue and where to study is one of the most exciting descisions the young foreign exchange student will ever make.
These days the most popular choices for Amercan college students are Italy, Spain and France.
Of all of these countries, Spain has seen the greatest increase in student enrollment in recent years.
The reasons are many. Etc...

As I munched on my "King Taco", I thought of all that I have read in this brutal murder case. 2 young foreign gals, who must have been so happy and excited to travel to Italy to study there for awhile, who then immersed themselves in the culture by living in an off-campus apartment with female Italian housemates, and each also getting an Italian boyfriend. 1 gal even got a job in the local community. These 2, Meredith Kercher and Amanda Knox, must have been stoked!

And it is extemely sad that both of their young lives were then so tragically changed...

With the "Campus Circle" article in mind,
I wonder if the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher and the unjust conviction of Amanda Knox we discuss
has caused many more American foreign exchange college students to enroll in language studies in Spain instead of Italy?
"Andalucia Awaits", not "Perugia Awaits".
Hmmm...
RWVBWL

 

[LondonJohn]

You have a knack for picking up on significant details. I am in the process of editing a detailed article by an expert who has examined the photos in their native resolution. "What else is in the pile" includes the bloody boots next to the hot water bottle, which were tossed under the bed along with other footwear, with the result that they left bloodstains under the bed, which the police later thought were connected to the crime.

Someone also dragged the blue sweatshirt across the floor, from the spot where it was found next to Meredith's head, to the spot where it was later recovered by the desk, and in doing so, they left a trail of blood streaks on the floor.

It's truly extraordinary that they even went through the charade of "suiting up" with protective clothing for the mid-December visit to the crime scene, given the amount of contamination of the scene that had quite visibly occurred in the intervening period. And it's perhaps even more extraordinary that the court chose to accept evidence collected from such a highly compromised crime scene during that December visit. Almost unbelievable.

 

[Withnail1969]

I'm sure that a "professional defence attorney" would readily tell you that this is entirely normal practice in a murder investigation.....

I understand that in the UK, there is a system for these things. Everything is photographed, filmed, prints taken, Luminol sprayed, DNA taken, then the remaining clothing and items will be retained by police, returned to the family or disposed of.

After that, the crimescene can be cleaned by professional cleaners and returned to normal. The whole process takes about 48 hours and nothing is missed because every inch of the crimescene is covered.

 

[Scorpion NITE]

Originally Posted by Withnail1969

This stuff needed to be tagged, bagged, and kept in a sterile hygienic environment, not left rotting in chaos in the uncleaned murder room for months. If nothing else, it looks horribly disrespectful to the murder victim. These cops are clowns.

I'm sure that a "professional defence attorney" would readily tell you that this is entirely normal practice in a murder investigation.....

Hi LondonJohn,

To be fair, I guess it is entirely feasible that 'work experience' may have been gained...?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tectives-investigating-rapes-and-murders.html

 

[LondonJohn]

I understand that in the UK, there is a system for these things. Everything is photographed, filmed, prints taken, Luminol sprayed, DNA taken, then the remaining clothing and items will be retained, returned to the family or disposed of.

After that, the crimescene can be cleaned by professional cleaners and returmed to normal. The whole process takes about 48 hours and nothing is missed because every inch of the crimescene is covered.

Yes, I believe that this is exactly how it happens. Quite how the "crack" Perugia police squad managed to spend all that time at the crime scene at the beginning of November, and yet STILL manage to leave behind an astonishing amount of important evidence behind, is testimony to their sheer incompetence. There is no rational explanation for this ineptitude. Everything of any value (and even those things which were not of immediately apparent value, but which might later prove valuable) should have been carefully identified, bagged in a sterile environment, and removed from the scene. It should all have been done in a choreographed order, with care and speed, so as to preserve all potential evidence as quickly and as carefully as possible.

In contrast, the way the crime scene was handled in this case makes it look like the Perugia police had actually never done this before. It's an absolute disgrace to the practice of crime scene analysis and forensic evidence collection, and those who participated in it should be thoroughly ashamed of their "efforts".

 

[Withnail1969]

Originally Posted by Withnail1969

This stuff needed to be tagged, bagged, and kept in a sterile hygienic environment, not left rotting in chaos in the uncleaned murder room for months. If nothing else, it looks horribly disrespectful to the murder victim. These cops are clowns.



Hi LondonJohn,

To be fair, I guess it is entirely feasible that 'work experience' may have been gained...?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tectives-investigating-rapes-and-murders.html

Well that's just great. Probably explains the lack of success the police had in finding the guy who stole my Xbox, despite getting his trainer prints from my windowsill.

 

[Scorpion NITE]

Well that's just great. Probably explains the lack of success the police had in finding the guy who stole my Xbox, despite getting his trainer prints from my windowsill.

I see what you mean...

Funnily enough, I was actually thinking of a particular 'professional defence attorney' I think LJ was really alluding to

 

[Withnail1969]

I see what you mean...

Funnily enough, I was actually thinking of a particular 'professional defence attorney' I think LJ was really alluding to

I'm familiar with the person you are referring to, but I doubt if he previously worked at M&S or Tesco before beginning his epic legal career. I would have thought Lidl, possibly.

 

[LondonJohn]

Well that's just great. Probably explains the lack of success the police had in finding the guy who stole my Xbox, despite getting his trainer prints from my windowsill.

Get the trainer prints sent to Dr Rinaldi - that should get things sorted

 

[LondonJohn]

I see what you mean...

Funnily enough, I was actually thinking of a particular 'professional defence attorney' I think LJ was really alluding to

"You might think that......I couldn't possibly comment."

 

[Withnail1969]

Get the trainer prints sent to Dr Rinaldi - that should get things sorted

Good point - I hadn't considered that Rafaelle Sollecito had done it!

 

[RoseMontague]

Yes, I believe that this is exactly how it happens. Quite how the "crack" Perugia police squad managed to spend all that time at the crime scene at the beginning of November, and yet STILL manage to leave behind an astonishing amount of important evidence behind, is testimony to their sheer incompetence. There is no rational explanation for this ineptitude. Everything of any value (and even those things which were not of immediately apparent value, but which might later prove valuable) should have been carefully identified, bagged in a sterile environment, and removed from the scene. It should all have been done in a choreographed order, with care and speed, so as to preserve all potential evidence as quickly and as carefully as possible.

In contrast, the way the crime scene was handled in this case makes it look like the Perugia police had actually never done this before. It's an absolute disgrace to the practice of crime scene analysis and forensic evidence collection, and those who participated in it should be thoroughly ashamed of their "efforts".

Ashamed? I think most of them received an award. My bet is that it did not contain the Good Housekeeping seal of approval.

 

[Scorpion NITE]

I'm familiar with the person you are referring to, but I doubt if he previously worked at M&S or Tesco before beginning his epic legal career. I would have thought Lidl, possibly.

Yes, I believe that this is exactly how it happens. Quite how the "crack" Perugia police squad managed to spend all that time at the crime scene at the beginning of November, and yet STILL manage to leave behind an astonishing amount of important evidence behind, is testimony to their sheer incompetence. There is no rational explanation for this ineptitude. Everything of any value (and even those things which were not of immediately apparent value, but which might later prove valuable) should have been carefully identified, bagged in a sterile environment, and removed from the scene. It should all have been done in a choreographed order, with care and speed, so as to preserve all potential evidence as quickly and as carefully as possible.

In contrast, the way the crime scene was handled in this case makes it look like the Perugia police had actually never done this before. It's an absolute disgrace to the practice of crime scene analysis and forensic evidence collection, and those who participated in it should be thoroughly ashamed of their "efforts".

To rub salt into the wounds, let's just award some medals - apparently, there's some lying around from a previous raid...



I see that RoseMontague beat me to it ;o)

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

This is what I can only describe as a blog rant against the new book by Rocco and the criticism of the Italian justice system by the US.

http://translate.google.com/transla.../blog.libero.it/lavocedimegaride/9421772.html

I thought this response by the Italy USA Foundation was interesting:

Disturbing. This author seems to view the case as a manifestation of American foreign policy and an affront to Italy's national honor. I am reminded of Egyptair Flight 990.

This is why it is important for American supporters to stress two things:

1. Raffaele Sollecito is every bit as innocent as Amanda, and what has happened to him is every bit as egregious and unjust.

2. We are aware that similar miscarriages of justice occur in the US and throughout the world. Our focus is not on Italy, but on the facts and evidence in this particular case.

 

[LondonJohn]

Ashamed? I think most of them received an award. My bet is that it did not contain the Good Housekeeping seal of approval.

Perhaps some of them should have read up on it before donning the sexy white overalls:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/csi.htm

 

[Chris_Halkides]

no retrocausality for me, thank you very much

My previous comments about Ms. Comodi's questioning of Amanda at the trial indicate that Ms. Comodi might be expected to have knowledge of Edda's conversation with Amanda about the phone call, as well as the actual phone records. I have previously said that Ms. Comodi might have been being deliberately deceptive in her questioning of Amanda about her call to Edda. I would like to point out that because I cannot know Ms. Comodi's state of mind, I cannot be sure why she said midday and not 12:47.

However, I certainly implied nothing more. Moreover to the best of my reading of their comments, neither did Dan O or Katody Matrass imply anything about retrocausality or mindwipes or other things that have been mentioned here or on another thread. I am pointing this out just to set the record straight.

 

[Draca]

Bloody boots in shoe pile left blood stain under bed

You have a knack for picking up on significant details. I am in the process of editing a detailed article by an expert who has examined the photos in their native resolution. "What else is in the pile" includes the bloody boots next to the hot water bottle, which were tossed under the bed along with other footwear, with the result that they left bloodstains under the bed, which the police later thought were connected to the crime.

That is amazing. So they throw her bloody boots into a pile of shoes by the bed and they leave blood on the floor. Then the forensics team later sees the bloody marks on the floor and think they are connected to the crime.

Let me take a wild guess - somehow the bloody marks are blamed on Amanda or Raffaele? It's pure madness and wasn't Meredith's head found resting on one of those very boots?

Imagagined Forensic cop comment:
"Oh look, there are bloody marks over here by these boots. How didn't we see them before. This is evidence supporting a 4 way sex crime."

Charlie, Do you have a list of items taken from the bedroom to be tested? I'm wondering about these items:

1. Jeans
2. Long sleeve t - shirt
3. Beige cloth book bag used that night
4. Socks

I understand they took the bra and panties early on. And the on Dec 18th took her Jacket, leather purse and bra clasp.

Pumas - it looks like they were left in the shoe pile along with the bloody boots.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=163680190323127&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034&ref=fbx_album

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I understand that in the UK, there is a system for these things. Everything is photographed, filmed, prints taken, Luminol sprayed, DNA taken, then the remaining clothing and items will be retained by police, returned to the family or disposed of.

After that, the crimescene can be cleaned by professional cleaners and returned to normal. The whole process takes about 48 hours and nothing is missed because every inch of the crimescene is covered.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US, police routinely bungle investigations and compromise evidence. Most cops on the beat are high school graduates with little specialized training, and they are the first responders at a crime scene. But this case in Perugia nevertheless represents an extreme of bad procedure. I have never seen photos of a crime scene as thoroughly trashed as this one was.

 

[Withnail1969]

That is amazing. So they throw her bloody boots into a pile of shoes by the bed and they leave blood on the floor. Then the forensics team later sees the bloody marks on the floor and think they are connected to the crime.

Let me take a wild guess - somehow the bloody marks are blamed on Amanda or Raffaele ? It's pure madness and wasn't Meredith's head found resting on one of those very boots?

Imagagined Forensic cop comment:
"Oh look, there are bloody marks over here by these boots. How didn't we see them before. This is evidence supporting a 4 way sex crime."

Charlie, Do you have a list of items taken from the bedroom to be tested? I'm wondering about these items:

1. Jeans
2. Long sleeve t - shirt
3. Beige cloth book bag used that night
4. Socks

I understand they took the bra and panties early on. And the on Dec 18th took her Jacket, leather purse and bra clasp.

Pumas - it looks like they were left in the shoe pile along with bloody boots.

Amateurs. I guess there aren't many murders in Perugia. Everything should have been removed from the crimescene within hours, photographed in situ and filmed during the removal. There should have been nothing left on December 18th.

 

[Withnail1969]

I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US, police routinely bungle investigations and compromise evidence. Most cops on the beat are high school graduates with little specialized training, and they are the first responders at a crime scene. But this case in Perugia nevertheless represents an extreme of bad procedure. I have never seen photos of a crime scene as thoroughly trashed as this one was.

I was impressed with the forensics lady who came to investigate my burglary. She did a really good job and got some very clear shoe prints which were previously invisible. I hear the UK murder cops and forensics are very good, and I believe it based on my experience.