Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[amb]

Asimov said that the bible is the very best weapon an atheist has to fight fundamentalist.

Okay, not in those words, but the same meaning. The more DOC uses "that" book as evidence, the less credibility he has.

 

[Worm]

indeed

Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.

 

[kmortis]

DOC,

Weesk ago I posted a list of the legendary deaths of the apostles - commenting that in every case these were.. legendary. There was no "evidence" to support any of the alleged demises.

I mentioned that I'd got the information from Wiki.

You complained that is was insufficient, and promised that within 10 days you'd respond with the evidence.

Weeks later, you offer up the same Wiki links that I used!

I'm sure you realise that this is an extremely inadeqate response.

Maybe you thought we'd get bored with the wait?

I've learnt a great deal from this thread, but none of it is from you - in fact I don't recall reading any posts supporting your position.

I decided to join the JREF because I want to learn. When I was young, I was a member of the Presbyterian Church - confirmed as well - and was very committed to the church.

Various things happened (I'll not derail the thread with details), and I drifted away.

A few years ago, my mother died after suffering Alzheimer's for 8 years.

As she was the "real" Christian in the family, at the time I considered that, if God exists, the Alzheimer's was a very cruel and sadistic way to reward her for a lifetime of belief.

So, I've been around many websites of all shades, from Atheist to fundamentalist Christian to see if I'd been unfair to God, and to give Christianity a second chance.

What I've discovered has been pushing me towards Atheism, I have to say.

When I saw the title of this thread I was frankly very interested, and have followed it from the very beginning.

Frankly, if part of the reason you're here is to evangelise, and convert people - like me, in fact - to/back to Christianity, then you've failed dismally.

Sadly, your use of circular reasoning, discredited arguments and non-sequiturs is only helping to push me steadily towards an atheistic viewpoint.

So - please review your methodology, so that you can provide some realistsic data?

Thank you.



SO - come on DOC!

To be fair, don't base your entire perspective of Christianity on DOC. As your mother showed you, there are others who are much better ambassadors for that religion. Or very own cj.23 is a good example as well. This is not to say that Christianity has any rational basis, but that not all representatives of it are as two-faced and dishonest as DOC is.

I do appreciate your optimism seen in your last line. We've been trying to get ol' DOC to be an honest debater for...three years now? No dice. his mind is made up, don't confuse him with the facts. I'm sure that if he even deems to respond to this post it will only to call it a "no information, attack the messenger post" or something. I wish he'd stay away so that the honest debaters could come back without fear of being overran with idiocy. We had a good span there when DOC was suspended, when cj was able to bring in good, solid evidence. That's all been lost now. Lost to the tautologies, bad analogies, circular reasonings, and the host of other fallacies that exemplified DOC's posts.

It makes me sad, really.


Aw...enough maudlin crap. Who's up for some DOC bingo? Who's got the cards? Lothian?

 

[Lothian]

Who's up for some DOC bingo? Who's got the cards? Lothian?

I am away for a week but if enough people flag up an interest I will dust the cards down again when I get back.

I dare say some of the numbers could be refreshed. Suggestions welcome.

Already feeling sorry for anyone with Simon the Zealot. Can't see that one being called.

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Asimov said that the bible is the very best weapon an atheist has to fight fundamentalist.

Okay, not in those words, but the same meaning. The more DOC uses "that" book as evidence, the less credibility he has.

Azimov is (was ) right.

I never have quite as much fun debunking Fundies as I do when I'm beating them over the head with OT passages (see Big Christian Slavery thread for examples of me having fun).

By the way--true anecdote--I was in Bermuda years ago as a teenager visiting dear old Dad when Azimov (one of my fave writers) showed up to give a lecture. I got to meet him and get an Azimov book signed that I had brought with me, not knowing I'd ever actually get to meet him.

I credit Azimov for teaching me critical thinking skills.

GB

 

[Rincewind]

To be fair, don't base your entire perspective of Christianity on DOC. As your mother showed you, there are others who are much better ambassadors for that religion. Or very own cj.23 is a good example as well. This is not to say that Christianity has any rational basis, but that not all representatives of it are as two-faced and dishonest as DOC is.

I do appreciate your optimism seen in your last line. We've been trying to get ol' DOC to be an honest debater for...three years now? No dice. his mind is made up, don't confuse him with the facts. I'm sure that if he even deems to respond to this post it will only to call it a "no information, attack the messenger post" or something. I wish he'd stay away so that the honest debaters could come back without fear of being overran with idiocy. We had a good span there when DOC was suspended, when cj was able to bring in good, solid evidence. That's all been lost now. Lost to the tautologies, bad analogies, circular reasonings, and the host of other fallacies that exemplified DOC's posts.

It makes me sad, really.


Aw...enough maudlin crap. Who's up for some DOC bingo? Who's got the cards? Lothian?

Thank you for your comments, much appreciated.

Yes, there are posters like cj.23 who grace the forums with their presence, and I'm always interested to read their posts.

And I do find DOC's posts very frustrating, apparently blaming everybody else for his/her shortcomings - everybody except DOC is out of step.

The favourite seems to be the "attack the messenger", but I've noticed recently the tactic of at least delaying any response with the "what post was that?"

It seems to me that some Christians are here for genuine debate - and are welcomed, whereas others are here to preach, to "stick it to those disgusting Atheists", to disrupt (and accuse others of these disruptions) or - so I've read - to win brownie points for the fundamentalist course they're doing at some Fundie college.

Not sure where DOC fits in, but I'm leaning towards the evangelist. (If you see what I mean)

I really wonder why DOC stays here. Therre's a constant barrage of real infomation whenever s/he reposts a long-discredited argument. At least I'm grateful for all the information I've received from so many posters. Surely there's no point to continuing - I guess that to DOC most posters here are stupid for not seeing, and agreeing with, his/her beliefs.

So - come on DOC - convince me to return to the fold.

Ciao,

 

[Akhenaten]

Not sure where DOC fits in, but I'm leaning towards the evangelist. (If you see what I mean)

DOC's posts are a mantra made up of some little snippets that he thinks are knowledge which he needs to keep repeating lest his own weak faith blow away like dust before the Haboob.

I really wonder why DOC stays here. There's a constant barrage of real infomation whenever s/he reposts a long-discredited argument.

He simply doesn't see it. As Thomas Gray said, "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."

 

[amb]

Azimov is (was ) right.

I never have quite as much fun debunking Fundies as I do when I'm beating them over the head with OT passages (see Big Christian Slavery thread for examples of me having fun).

By the way--true anecdote--I was in Bermuda years ago as a teenager visiting dear old Dad when Azimov (one of my fave writers) showed up to give a lecture. I got to meet him and get an Azimov book signed that I had brought with me, not knowing I'd ever actually get to meet him.

I credit Azimov for teaching me critical thinking skills.

GB

His guide to the bible was among his best works.

 

[amb]

DOC should have a look at the televangelist industry, especially in the States to realise he is on the loosing side. Not a shred of credibility. And each uses the babble to suit.

 

[Simon39759]

His guide to the bible was among his best works.

Well; clearly, if he thought the Bible was important enough to devote two volumes to its study, that proves that the Bible is true...

 

[kmortis]

His guide to the bible was among his best works.

I whole heartedly disagree! I mean the man had one of the widest nets of writing subjects I've ever heard of. From physics, to biblical interprtation to being one of the seminal fathers of modern science fiction and on and on. You choose his biblical work to point out? Bah! BAH! I say!






All good Asimov fans know it was his limericks that were his most important works....

 

[Rincewind]

His guide to the bible was among his best works.

And clearly makes him a far better, and respected, historian than Saint Luke of Skywalker!

 

[Akhenaten]

.

A preacher by the name of DOC
Made all his arguments ad hoc,
The liberties he always took
In quoting from his holy book,
Proved NT truth is just a great big crock.

- Isaac Aberhatenov​

 

[Zanders]

Guys, you are clearly doing it wrong. The Old Testament is symbolic. Of course God doesn't really mean those horrible things he said in it. It was just to teach us lessons.

And it's not meant to be thought of as historical either!

 

[Akhenaten]

Guys, you are clearly doing it wrong.

Who are you talking to?

The Old Testament is symbolic. Of course God doesn't really mean those horrible things he said in it. It was just to teach us lessons.

God didn't say any of the stuff in the bible. In any case this thread is about the New Testament.

And it's not meant to be thought of as historical either!

Go on! Really?

How did we miss this before?

 

[amb]

According to the decades ago now, Jesus Seminar, less than 15% of what Jesus is supposed to have uttered and done in the N/T may be historical, and that's been very kind to great historians such as Luke.

 

[kmortis]

.

A preacher by the name of DOC
Made all his arguments ad hoc,
The liberties he always took
In quoting from his holy book,
Proved NT truth is just a great big crock.

- Isaac Aberhatenov
​

I think I need to check my glasses. I totally missed the "r" in the ultimate word. Totally changed the meaning. Just as funny, but the meaning is scewed a different direction.

 

[Wolrab]

Again with the limericks? That is so 3000 posts ago!

 

[maatorc]

According to the decades ago now, Jesus Seminar, less than 15% of what Jesus is supposed to have uttered and done in the N/T may be historical, and that's been very kind to great historians such as Luke.

Yes, it is legend transmitting a myth; like Horus and the Grail.

 

[davefoc]

Again with the limericks? That is so 3000 posts ago!

I can relate. When JREF was going through a limerick phase I was in to it enough that I was thinking in limerick like rhythms. It was really annoying and fortunately for most of us the JREF limerick phase was limited in time so that I was able to keep my sanity.

Obviously Akhenaten was made of stronger stuff and has been able to continue writing limericks. I tried a year ago or so and basically nothing came out, clearly I had successfully exorcised the demon.