Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[dafydd]

No, not a clue
And what compelling evidence it would surely be! How very gnostic of him! I am now in invisible believer!

Two years ago Doc promised to show us evidence that the writers of the New Testament were telling the truth.We are still waiting.

 

[Mojo]

Well one argument why one might say it is truer and clearer is because the New Testament motivated a person like Thomas Jefferson to take the time to cut out 900 verses of it and paste them in a book and call Jesus' teachings the most moral, pure, and sublime ever taught by man.

Er, DOC, sorry to have to point this out, but you've done this one before. It has been repeatedly pointed out to you why this is not the evidence you claim it is, and yet you continue to repeat the claim.

You would lose credibility when you do this if you had any left by this point.

 

[zooterkin]

Well one argument why one might say it is truer and clearer is because the New Testament motivated a person like Thomas Jefferson to take the time to cut out 900 verses of it and paste them in a book and call Jesus' teachings the most moral, pure, and sublime ever taught by man.

And how many verses did he leave behind as being nonsense?

 

[Akhenaten]

And how many verses did he leave behind as being nonsense?

And how many of them came from Aberhaten's favourite NT book?

I'm thinkin' . . . "lots".

 

[DOC]

It is amazing. DOC said that we could know TNTWTTT {the NT writers told the truth} because they died for their testimony.

Actually I didn't say this, but I said we have evidence they did.

Now we can't find evidence of their death or rather we find too much.

But we can find evidence:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6332384#post6332384

So DOC just who did die for Jesus?

These people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

And if you go to the end of the link below under "See Also" you'll find links to thousands more who died for Christ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_martyrs:

 

[Lothian]

And if you go to the end of the link below under "See Also" you'll find links to thousands more who died for Christ

How many times did Simon die for Christ?

If you would prefer not to answer this, let me know and I can reprint a load of responses from the previous times you have brought up your pathetic martyrs argument.

 

[TSR]

Now you're just showing off!

.
"Just?" Try "always."

And it depends whether you count each performance of a show, or count each play individually.
.

 

[joobz]

And if you go to the end of the link below under "See Also" you'll find links to thousands more who died for Christ

Shall I present a list of people who died BECAUSE of Christ?
Start with South America.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Actually I didn't say this, but I said we have evidence they did.



But we can find evidence:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6332384#post6332384




These people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

And if you go to the end of the link below under "See Also" you'll find links to thousands more who died for Christ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_martyrs:

Is dying for your religion evidence that it is true?

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Is dying for your religion evidence that it is true?

Well, DOC's only stated that he believes this to be the case about a thousand times on this and other threads.

And of course pointing out all the other people who died for their religions doesn't count to him.

Special Pleading on Steroids.

GB

 

[Akhenaten]

But we can find evidence:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6332384#post6332384

DOC refers to this post as evidence:

Well the Gospel writer Luke who has been called one the of the world's great historians (regarding things that can be verified by historical and archaeological evidence) wrote that the apostle James was martyred. That is real historical evidence, ask any historian.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85633

Which,, in turn, refers to this post:

Quite certain, well that's what the New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) says in its article on Peter "the apostle". You know, the Peter who weakly denied Christ 3 times to a woman. But then it was reported he saw something about a week later (and this gave him unusual boldness). Apparently, that newfound boldness ended up getting him martyred in Rome.

Cool. We already have a picture for this, don't we, viewers?

 

[John Jones]

This thread keeps getting better and better.

 

[Akhenaten]

So DOC just who did die for Jesus?

These people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

In the interests of fairness, DOC, I followed this linky and had a little read. On the page there was another link which I also followed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_the_Zealot​

On that page was some biographical information about Simon the Zealot:

Died ~ 107 CE

Place of death disputed. Possibly Pella, Armenia; Suanir, Persia; Edessa, Lincolnshire; Caistor.​

What can this possibly mean, DOC? How can Simon's place of death possibly be disputed when we have the Bible to refer to for the answers?

Please explain.

 

[tsig]

In the interests of fairness, DOC, I followed this linky and had a little read. On the page there was another link which I also followed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_the_Zealot​

On that page was some biographical information about Simon the Zealot:

Died ~ 107 CE

Place of death disputed. Possibly Pella, Armenia; Suanir, Persia; Edessa, Lincolnshire; Caistor.​

What can this possibly mean, DOC? How can Simon's place of death possibly be disputed when we have the Bible to refer to for the answers?

Please explain.

Well they didn't call him 'The Zealot' for nothing.

Actually it is in the bible. Jesus told his followers that they could do even more wonders than him after the holy spirit* infused them so Simon decided to go Jesus a few better in the resurrection game.

*I always liked the term 'holy ghost'

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Well they didn't call him 'The Zealot' for nothing.

Actually it is in the bible. Jesus told his followers that they could do even more wonders than him after the holy spirit* infused them so Simon decided to go Jesus a few better in the resurrection game.

*I always liked the term 'holy ghost'

Well you know, that makes Spirit (aka Energy/Breath) sound more like a person. So once you call it the Holy Ghost you can have another "person" to be part of a Trinitarian Polytheism, but then you call it "Monotheism" to attempt to differentiate your religion from all those other Dirty Little Pagan Polytheists, and make a claim to be the successor of the Monotheist religion that it was partially based on.

GB

 

[TSR]

Well they didn't call him 'The Zealot' for nothing.

Actually it is in the bible. Jesus told his followers that they could do even more wonders than him after the holy spirit* infused them so Simon decided to go Jesus a few better in the resurrection game.

*I always liked the term 'holy ghost'

.
"The Book I gave you should have been enough for you. Now you'll just have to take the consequences for your meddling."

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
.

 

[Rincewind]

Well you know, that makes Spirit (aka Energy/Breath) sound more like a person. So once you call it the Holy Ghost you can have another "person" to be part of a Trinitarian Polytheism, but then you call it "Monotheism" to attempt to differentiate your religion from all those other Dirty Little Pagan Polytheists, and make a claim to be the successor of the Monotheist religion that it was partially based on.

GB

Well, apparently the Holy Spook knocked Mary up - and that implies certain human attributes.

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Well, apparently the Holy Spook knocked Mary up - and that implies certain human attributes.

Can't argue that one.

GB

 

[dafydd]

Doc,did the Catholics who were slaughtered during the Drogheda massacre die for Christ?

 

[Rincewind]

DOC,

Weesk ago I posted a list of the legendary deaths of the apostles - commenting that in every case these were.. legendary. There was no "evidence" to support any of the alleged demises.

I mentioned that I'd got the information from Wiki.

You complained that is was insufficient, and promised that within 10 days you'd respond with the evidence.

Weeks later, you offer up the same Wiki links that I used!

I'm sure you realise that this is an extremely inadeqate response.

Maybe you thought we'd get bored with the wait?

I've learnt a great deal from this thread, but none of it is from you - in fact I don't recall reading any posts supporting your position.

I decided to join the JREF because I want to learn. When I was young, I was a member of the Presbyterian Church - confirmed as well - and was very committed to the church.

Various things happened (I'll not derail the thread with details), and I drifted away.

A few years ago, my mother died after suffering Alzheimer's for 8 years.

As she was the "real" Christian in the family, at the time I considered that, if God exists, the Alzheimer's was a very cruel and sadistic way to reward her for a lifetime of belief.

So, I've been around many websites of all shades, from Atheist to fundamentalist Christian to see if I'd been unfair to God, and to give Christianity a second chance.

What I've discovered has been pushing me towards Atheism, I have to say.

When I saw the title of this thread I was frankly very interested, and have followed it from the very beginning.

Frankly, if part of the reason you're here is to evangelise, and convert people - like me, in fact - to/back to Christianity, then you've failed dismally.

Sadly, your use of circular reasoning, discredited arguments and non-sequiturs is only helping to push me steadily towards an atheistic viewpoint.

So - please review your methodology, so that you can provide some realistsic data?

Thank you.



SO - come on DOC!