Hello from a non-skeptic

[Robert Oz]

Ideomotor caused by the subconscious instead of an actual entity? Very possible, but one of my own personal conclusions is that the "subconscious mind" might be very closely connected to what we could term as the "Soul-Consciousness".

In case you are still reading this thread, Charles, I again encourage you to test the Ouija board. Use a blind-fold and jumbled alphabet or ask the spirits to reveal cards being dealt in another room. A test will give you all the answers you need.

I'm not sure if the Derren Brown video posted is the one I am about to discuss (I cannot access Youtube videos from this computer), but there is a video on Youtube where Derren Brown tells a ghost story to a bunch of people and then conducts a seance. Not only are messages received through the Ouija board, but the spirit of the deceased actually seems to enter the body of one of the people in the room. It is only then that Derren reveals that the story was a complete fabrication and introduces the people to the very much alive woman who posed for a photo of the 'deceased'.

Look the video up on Youtube. It is a fascinating insight into just how much our own brains can fool us. These people were not crazy or foolish. They were human. A test of the Ouija board must eliminate subjectivity in order to tell us anything about the real world.

 

[Olowkow]

You know, while Charles' accusations certainly ring hollow, I have to agree that sometimes we, as a community, really are a bunch of dicks.

I'll take that as a "thank you", I guess. If you investigate the links already posted, you will find that in August, he was seeking to promote his book, and even gave the location of his parents over the internet.
His accusations are serious, and if he had really felt endangered, he should have reported his concerns to the mods.

The editing of locations is mine:

Although I live in sunny R*****, Brazil, my parents live on N**** Rd in L***. I plan to travel to visit them shortly and would like to take the opportunity to divulge a book I have published: http://www.freado.com/book/7923/descendant-of-kings via a signing night.
Could I interest you in this proposal? The book is also available for book stores on consignation.
I thank you in advance for your kind attention.
Charles Boden

 

[Mirrorglass]

I'll take that as a "thank you", I guess. If you investigate the links already posted, you will find that in August, he was seeking to promote his book, and even gave the location of his parents over the internet.
His accusations are serious, and if he had really felt endangered, he should have reported his concerns to the mods.

The editing of locations is mine:

Well, I briefly wondered about whether the man should have the right to take back his poorly thought out accusations without everyone reading them. I swiftly abandoned the idea, as the irony was simply too delicious, which is why I used the pronoun "we". Well, part of the why, anyway.

It will be interesting to see whether Charles will complain about the dishonest tactic of quoting a post of his he does not want people to see.

 

[Olowkow]

Well, I briefly wondered about whether the man should have the right to take back his poorly thought out accusations without everyone reading them. I swiftly abandoned the idea, as the irony was simply too delicious, which is why I used the pronoun "we". Well, part of the why, anyway.

It will be interesting to see whether Charles will complain about the dishonest tactic of quoting a post of his he does not want people to see.

Mirrorglass, I really don't want to belabor this, but we have no evidence of who pulled the post. Charles was not on line just before and just after the post disappeared. I just happened to still have it up in another tab in my browser, and copied and pasted it here.

Their software is very similar to ours, and I believe one can completely delete a post within a minute, but after that time, you can delete the text, and insert "deleted" or something, but you cannot delete without a trace.

I think it was pulled by their mod for being off topic or argumentative. Just a guess.

ETA: Just to be accurate, I tested our JREF site for the ability to delete a post. You cannot delete a post, even right away. You can edit it down to a minimum of 2 characters though. If the PLF settings are the same, then the post had to have been pulled by a mod.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Mirrorglass, I really don't want to belabor this, but we have no evidence of who pulled the post. Charles was not on line just before and just after the post disappeared. I just happened to still have it up in another tab in my browser, and copied and pasted it here.

Their software is very similar to ours, and I believe one can completely delete a post within a minute, but after that time, you can delete the text, and insert "deleted" or something, but you cannot delete without a trace.

I think it was pulled by their mod for being off topic or argumentative. Just a guess.

True. It's too bad the forum isn't quite as open as ours. I'm also somewhat surprised if the post truly was simply deleted by mod decision; in my opinion it isn't really that much worse than the previous ones. Although I suppose it really is serious business insinuating that our forumites are actually dangerous.

Nevertheless, I thought it might be reasonable to give Charles the benefit of doubt, but frankly, he did dig his own hole, and he did receive ample warning while doing it.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Charles, if you are still reading this, I'd like to give a word of warning.

The JREF forumites are not a group of thugs. No one here is interested in persecuting you, and while many of us are still following this thread and it's counterpart on Past Life forums with interest, you really don't need to fear us. Threats and cyberbullying are taken very seriously on the JREF forums, and you can be certain nothing of the sort has been directed towards you.

However, there are other, less nice forums on the internet. In case you ever intend to enter one - or as long as you hang out on any forums, really - please, be more careful.

I understand that you were shocked when someone found out about your book. However, you really shouldn't have been. For crying out loud, you are posting with your own name! And as if that wasn't enough, you copypasted text straight from the novel, in a fairly obvious manner. And a simple Google search on that book gives the location of your home? If you truly are scared of this forum, then you really were crazy to ever log in.

But, like I've said, this place isn't all that dangerous. Plenty of people post with their names, and as far as I know, few have had any trouble. But just because this place is above average doesn't mean you should go completely nuts.

I mean, look at this thread. You started well enough, but quickly turned to insults that grew worse and worse. Then you left for another forum, providing us with a link to you insulting everyone again, came back to insult us one more time, then suggest we are not only rude, but outright criminal. Here, such things are met with scorn and amusement, but I know of forums where such behaviour really could put you in danger.

So, if you learned anything on your brief visit to JREF, please learn this: if you are going to post with your own name, if you are going to have details about yourself available online - stop trying to make enemies of entire communities. Sooner or later you will find one where you succeed.

 

[AdMan]

Charles, if you are still reading this, I'd like to give a word of warning.

<snip>

Very well put and excellent advice!

 

[3point14]

Sorry, again, I have skipped large parts of the thread again, so apologies if this has been answered, but has the OP yet given an example of what evidence would be required for him to change his mind?

FWIW, I bet he hasn't yet.

 

[Apology]

Charles just posted more of his thoughts on this thread on the Past Life forums. Apparently he genuinely felt afraid, feeling we were threatening him and his family because someone found the book he had written - you know, the one he directly copied parts of his early posts from. It seems he views the JREF forums as a violent mob of some kind, and according to him, pretty much every poster outside Garrette was simply howling mindless insults at him - it was so bad he fears for the safety of his family.

Considering all that, I guess it really was brave of him to post with his own name.

What.A.DRAMA QUEEN. Uggghhhh.

 

[Emet]

Dear Aqualung, Garrette and Gao,

The purpose of our forum is to provide a safe place for people to share experiences. Our mission statement clearly defines our purpose and our goal is to create a place where people can question, reflect, compare experiences and share research. We thank you for your participation, however this thread is now closed.

Okay, then.

 

[aggle-rithm]

I'll take that as a "thank you", I guess. If you investigate the links already posted, you will find that in August, he was seeking to promote his book, and even gave the location of his parents over the internet.

Yeah, but no one can ever find a street address in Brazil. They're perfectly safe.

 

[AdMan]

Sorry, again, I have skipped large parts of the thread again, so apologies if this has been answered, but has the OP yet given an example of what evidence would be required for him to change his mind?

FWIW, I bet he hasn't yet.

The closest he came to answering that question was this, IIRC:

To answer the question as to what it would take for me to believe that there is no such thing as a psychic, I would have to say that the degree of difficulty is about the same as your believing that there is.

ETA: Of course if you examine that statement, it's a stretch to say it makes any sense.

 

[Olowkow]

Can you provide an example of a time when this has occurred?

It's all your fault! Just can't stick to the "niceness formula".

 

[Gao]

And the thread on the other forum has now been locked. I'm thinking that they decided that they thought it might head in some ugly places given Charles' claim of feeling threatened.

 

[Olowkow]

And the thread on the other forum has now been locked. I'm thinking that they decided that they thought it might head in some ugly places given Charles' claim of feeling threatened.

Difficult to know for sure, but kudos to you, Garrette and Aqualung for giving it a good try. I really wish Nightrain1, and Overseas would join us on JREF to continue the discussion. I would enjoy their participation.

 

[Robert Oz]

And the thread on the other forum has now been locked. I'm thinking that they decided that they thought it might head in some ugly places given Charles' claim of feeling threatened.

I think it is more likely that they were afraid of having some of their favourite cases in support of reincarnation debunked. Fox Mulder's 'I Want To Believe' fits their forum perfectly. They don't want to see the evidence against their beliefs. They are happy in their fantasy bubble.

 

[Olowkow]

As much as James Randi's followers try to poke logical holes in in the arguments of paranormal supporters, they only appear all the more as children with their hands upon their ears trying hard not to hear.

I'd love to see this hypothesis defended, in light of the post closing at PLF. Get out the popcorn! Bring it on Nightrain1. Coming here would be a..."gutsy move".

 

[Aepervius]

Charles, if you are still reading this, I'd like to give a word of warning.

The JREF forumites are not a group of thugs. No one here is interested in persecuting you,

*drop a bundle of pitchfork and torch, and try to discretly shift them with a leg behind a rock*

Right.

Good post mirrorglass.

Hum.

*push a falling torch back behind the rock*

 

[Alice Shortcake]

I understand that you were shocked when someone found out about your book. However, you really shouldn't have been. For crying out loud, you are posting with your own name! And as if that wasn't enough, you copypasted text straight from the novel, in a fairly obvious manner.

Nice one, Mirrorglass!

 

[Garrette]

I actually expected that thread to be closed eventually, not necessarily because we were hitting too close to home, but because of the reasons Deborah actually gave. Their forum has a purpose, and that thread was not within that purpose. Fair enough.

What surprised me was the timing. Deborah herself had shown interest and had even offered to contact one of the famous claimants of reincarnation, an offer to which I responded enthusiastically.

So I'm left wondering a few things, some of them more cynical like Did Deborah not really intend for me to be excited about speaking to the actual claimant and continuing to research cases she mentioned, but some of them less cynical. It is entirely possible that the mods were willing to humor some mild tangential discussion. But I suspect that it got to be too far afield not only from the purpose but the atmosphere of that forum when Charles continued to comment negatively about the JREF and we wouldn't let it go unchallenged, coupled with posts like Aqualung requesting an example of a psychic providing detectives a suspect's name (you beat me to it, Aqualung; I was gonna ask, too, I swear!)

Or perhaps a mix. In any case, while the answer may be a cynical one, it doesn't need to be. And I did explicitly state in my original posts there that I would rein myself in when told I needed to.

Not sure if I'll go back over there, but the possibility remains.