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Hello from a non-skeptic

If only someone would put words in his mouth, it might be possible to have a sensible conversation with him.
 
Charles Boden said:
I have not as yet bothered to read through what I may have missed here seeing as most of it until what I did read was just BS and offence.
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Your lack of courtesy shown to the posts that have patiently and objectively attempted to explain other possibilities is callous. It demonstrates how biased and inconsiderate you really are, and I can't see how your objective can be anything more than to proselytize your beliefs without giving any heed. You have single-handedly swept everything we've tried to explain to you by labeling these attempts as BS. I wonder, were you hoping for a civil conversation after this ridiculous spiel? After you've proclaimed some hilarious new rules to how we should conduct ourselves? I can tell you, you'll probably experience the opposite.
 
Alice Shortcake said:
I'm baffled by Charles' family tree and suspect that a bit of wishful thinking is at work here.

An enormously detailed genealogical account of the Stewarts of Appin can be found here:

http://www.chuckspeed.com/balquhidder/history/Stewarts_of_Appin.pdf

From it we learn that Duncan, fourth chief of the Stewarts of Appin and grandson of Dugald, married Jonet Gordon, daughter of the Earl of Huntley. There seems to be some doubt about the date of Duncan's death but Jonet was still alive in 1558.

Now, one of King James IV's illegitimate daughters was Margaret (born c. 1497), whose first husband was Lord John Gordon, son of the 3rd Earl of Huntley. They had three sons including George Gordon (born 1513), who became the 4th Earl of Huntley.

George Gordon married Elizabeth Keith, by whom he had five sons and three daughters. None of the daughters were named Jonet or married into the Stewart of Appin family, although Elizabeth - who died before 1557 - did marry John Stewart, the 4th Earl of Atholl.

The 5th Earl of Huntly, also called George Gordon, had no daughters. Neither did his successor.

I have no idea who the mysterious Jonet Gordon was, but on the basis of a few hours research it doesn't seem that she was an illegitimate granddaughter of King James IV. Perhaps there has been some confusion between the Stewarts of Atholl, into which family Elizabeth Gordon married, and the Stewarts of Appin?
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I've just noticed that Catherine Stewart, King James IV's illegitimate daughter by Marion Boyd, also left descendents. Her daughter Lady Anne Hamilton married...George Gordon, 5th Earl of Huntley! So we're back at a dead end as far as Charles' claim is concerned. His link to the royal family appears to be even more tenuous that we thought, especially when you bear in mind the fact that the Hanoverians from whom both Liz and Phil are descended had very, very little Stewart blood.
 
Olowkow said:
One cannot evaluate a phenomenon until one has evidence of the phenomenon, then a serious and unbiased evaluation of the evidence is in order. Just in case someone neglected to mention this, "anecdotes" are not evidence.
I posted a video of a Ouija demonstration. It contains a simple test that proves, beyond any possible rigging by liberal non-believers, that it is merely a child's toy. I am still hoping Charles will spend a few moments to view this.
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The original purpose of a Ouija board was not to contact the dead.They were used for automatic writing.
 
Charles Boden said:
I am willing to debate the issue further, if done in a friendly and respectable manner, beginning with my own reflections after what I read here concerning the night with the Ouija. Ideomotor caused by the subconscious instead of an actual entity? Very possible, but one of my own personal conclusions is that the "subconscious mind" might be very closely connected to what we could term as the "Soul-Consciousness". Sounds crazy? Well, that's what people also said when they were told that the world was round...
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Charles, so what is it you would like to debate right now?

Would you like to debate whether an Ouija board's answers, produced by the subconscious mind, could be influenced by "soul consciousness"? Okay, I have only one question for you:

1. How could you design a test to show that the results of an Ouija board reading are from the undirected subconscious minds of the participants or are due to "soul consciousness"?

This question asks, by implication:

a. What information can be gained by "soul consciousness" that is not already known to the participants?

b. How reliable is "soul consciousness"? Will it turn up every time anyone uses an Ouija board? Will it turn up every time believers use the board? Will it only occasionally turn up no matter what?


These questions may require you to confront a question that has been asked before: Can the spirit world give you any new information, unknown to you before, and helpful to you now? If not, whether the spirit world exists seems like a moot point because it will be utterly useless to us. Uri Geller, for example, may actually be able to bend spoons with his mind. But, if that's all he can do, what the heck use is it to have a whole bunch of bent spoons?

It was your wish to discuss this one topic. Philosophizing about it seems wasteful when we can just test to see if it's true. So, I don't really think anyone here is going to talk to you about the weight of the soul, or how grand it would be to know that spirits are all around us, or what a wonderfully magical place the universe would be if we could live out its entire history and see it over and over again through newborn eyes. Please answer my questions as directly as possible so we can determine how exactly we can find this "soul consciousness" and learn more about it from you.


---> How could you design a test to show that the results of an Ouija board reading are from the undirected subconscious minds of the participants or are due to "soul consciousness"?


ETA: Proof that the world is round is ample and abundant, easily demonstrated in multiple ways, and consistent with all observable phenomena. I hope your "soul consciousness" proves to be the same.
 
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I'm willing to stick to the "only three posters at a time" rule as long as the people on the Bowman forums are willing to stick to "don't represent your personal beliefs as fact" rule that we have here.

Did we give up after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Nooooo!!! Who's with me?

*runs away alone*
 
I would like to know one thing. Why does anyone have to touch the glass in the first place? If it's suppose to be the spirits making the contact why put your hands on it at all?



I Am He
 
Ok, so it's going to continue... I have replied to Garrett at the CPL Forum. I have nothing further to say over here.

My kindest regards to all of you...
 
Sledge said:
My psychic powers tell me you'll be back with a "I see everyone can't be nice, so I'm taking my ball and going home" post.
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Charles Boden said:
Ok, so it's going to continue... I have replied to Garrett at the CPL Forum. I have nothing further to say over here.

My kindest regards to all of you...
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Damn! Sledge wins the thread! When do you start the application process for the MDC, Sledge? :)
 
Charles Boden said:
Ok, so it's going to continue...
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Forthright and well informed discussion of whatever topic a thread starter raises? Yes, that's the one thing you can always count on here. And long may it continue.

ETA: just read the latest posts on the other forum. Garrette is doing a splendid job. Boden is still claiming that rubbish data magically becomes good data when you have a lot of it.
 
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Charles Boden said:
Ok, so it's going to continue... I have replied to Garrett at the CPL Forum. I have nothing further to say over here.

My kindest regards to all of you...
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Nah, stick around. You could just put those posters who annoy you on "ignore". No need to burn your bridges here just as you are learning something interesting:

CharlesBoden said:
Ideomotor caused by the subconscious instead of an actual entity? Very possible, but one of my own personal conclusions is that the "subconscious mind" might be very closely connected to what we could term as the "Soul-Consciousness".
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Pixel42 said:
Forthright and well informed discussion of whatever topic a thread starter raises? Yes, that's the one thing you can always count on here. And long may it continue.

ETA: just read the latest posts on the other forum. Garrette is doing a splendid job. Boden is still claiming that rubbish data magically becomes good data when you have a lot of it.
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There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions."
Woody Allen, "Annie Hall"
 
Charles Boden said:
Ok, so it's going to continue... I have replied to Garrett at the CPL Forum. I have nothing further to say over here.

My kindest regards to all of you...
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So you just came here to insult everyone, ignore all replies and then tell us we're not worthy of you? You really aren't doing your cause any good, here.
 
You people ruined it. I had eight hundred words insulting his parentage but I erased all of it and asked exactly one very reasonable question. Now I wish I remembered my insults. I'm sure they were absolutely scathing.
 
Olowkow said:
I'm reading all these posts by very reasonable sounding and rational appearing members, in keeping with what has been said literally hundreds of times to people coming here presenting their anecdotal exposure to the paranormal, and I know somewhere in the back of my mind that eventually the OP will feel he is being attacked, become angry and leave. It is the pattern we have all seen all too often. I really hope this does not happen though.
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Charles Boden said:
Olowkow, you have been very kind and I knew what to expect when I first posted, so needn't worry about my getting angry and upset and leaving.
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Maybe Sledge and I can share the MDC?

It might interest some to check out the Robert Snow case that Deborah mentioned on the PLF. I found this interesting discussion on another forum, where at least one of JREF's members posts. Robert Snow, a high ranking cop and skeptic, became obsessed with a past life when certain details were revealed during a regression session.
 
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