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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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LondonJohn said:
The prosecution and the court clearly believed that the print was "proven" as being that of Sollecito (and certainly to the exclusion of Guede). That's what we're debating really - not the work that you did.

And I think you're being slightly misleading if you want us to believe that you went into that analysis with an open mind. I think you went into that analysis with the aim of demonstrating that the bath mat print matched Sollecito's reference print, and that it didn't match Guede's reference print. This shows in the way you chose to draw your outline - particularly in the area of the big toe - which is totally at odds with the high-contrast photos of the mat. And it shows in the way you announced a close "match" with Sollecito's print, when there were many significant points of mismatch, and conversely when you announced that Guede's reference was "no match", when there were probably the same number of matching and mis-matching areas as with Sollecito's print.
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Yours are opinions which you are entitled to, and in fact that's why I encourage people to post arguments directed on the reasons for their assessments on the print - so if you tell us what are the reasons for mismatch that are impressive to you it would be interesting - rather than than address the personal motivations why somebody is making a research or posting a picture. As far as I remember, my wording was more on the line of a finding of "compatible" considering many existing matches with Sollecito's print and many important mismatches with Guede's, but I clearly stated that this is my assessment. So I am not making people believe things: I am showing there are grounds for my opinion.
The area of the toe is always there on pictures, it can be magnified for more in depth asessments and analysis. I am impressed by the continuity with the large area of the protuberance mark on the top right - no separation, and by the fact Guede's second falls in a different area, that the width of the bloody print is half centimetre more than Guede's print on the right margin - Sollecito's footprint is "fat" and curved like the bathmat print, that the curvature of sollecito's foot on the left instead draws a shape of the ball of the foot like the bathmat's, that there is a "cleft" on the left side of the foot while Guede puts full body weight on the phalanx of his big toe producing a print with a "straight" border line, that the area of Rudy's ball of foot is mismatching too much the plantar arch of the stain, that the superior border of the ball of the foot mismatches Guede's and has visible features in common with Sollecito's, and by the absence of second toes on the bathmat print....
 
Chris C said:
Yummi over at PMF decided to play with the contrast and actually made the picture look more like Guede's foot.

So then I took that same picture and inverted it so you get a clear outline. How they figure that looks like Sollecito's foot I dont understand.
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Chris can you do the same graphic but substitute Sollecito's foot print in place of Guede's?
 
Danceme said:
What the prosecution says is that her mother said that nothing had happened yet. Then they proceed to try and find out what is meant by that but Amanda will have no part of it, she insists she doesn't remember the call at all, so the prosecution gets nowhere.
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Read this statement again. This is what Comodi said. I understand that you believe Knox is guilty. However, your looking at this with blinders. Read what is said carefully. This comment by Comodi is a 2 part statement, not a question. Remember the key word here is ALSO.
1st Part. But at 12:00 nothing had happened yet. (This is Comodi declaring nothing had happened at 12:00)
2nd Part. That's what your mother also said.(This is Comodi declaring Knox's mother said nothing had happened at 12:00.)

MC: But at 12:00 nothing had happened yet. That's what your mother also said--

No, it isn't obvious. Knox made the first call, to her mother. Sollecito made the second call, to his sister who was a police officer but in another jurisdiction entirely, it was onuy to get advice (or as some believe to create an alibi as well). Only then did Sollecito call the police.

I think you misunderstood me here, I never suggested Knox should call the police herself, rather that Sollecito, as the Italian speaker, should have, before Knox called her mother or he called his sister.
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What does it matter who Knox calls if Sollecito is calling the ITALIAN police, since he is ITALIAN and knox doesn't speak the language. So your opinion is she should just stand there like a good Girlfriend and talk to no one while he calls the police.
 
christianahannah said:
I find it interesting that the prosecution consultant takes the outline of the bathmat print and overlays it on the sole-prints of Guede and Sollecito.
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This is actually the proper direction to go since the extent of the bathmat print is more subjective. Laying an outline of the reference print over the bathmat can result in confirmation bias that tends to fill in the gaps. To be done properly, the person doing the tracing should not have been exposed to the reference prints.
 
Danceme said:
I think you misunderstood me here, I never suggested Knox should call the police herself, rather that Sollecito, as the Italian speaker, should have, before Knox called her mother or he called his sister.
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Why is that? Perhaps there is a study that shows when people have a tendency to call the police verses an acquaintance with more experience based on their age and the situation they encounter. But your claim that this shows guilt or an attempt to create an alibi has not been supported.

This idea of calling relatives to establish an alibi is itself rather bizarre. What is the alibi that is created? Is it to show they were concerned enough about the situation that they wanted to get advice from more mature relatives? Why not just call the police directly!? Now that would be an alibi.
 
katy_did said:
LOL. I didn't know what one was either. From Wiki:

Suppressive Person, often abbreviated SP, is a term used in Scientology to describe the "antisocial personalities" who, according to Scientology's founder L. Ron Hubbard, make up about 2.5% of the population. A statement on a Church of Scientology website describes this group as including notorious historic figures such as Adolf Hitler.

I have a feeling Katody said exactly what he meant to say. :D
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DSM III R has others names for suppressive person (SP). Their version of an SP is a person with an "Antisocial Personality Disorder" or a "Psychopath".

The funny thing is that one man's SP is another man's social personality and vice versa. For example were we to grade the police that investigated Amanda, the prosecutor that prosecuted AK and RS, and the forensic lab; the guilters would probably give them over a C and the believers in innocence would certainly give them less than a grade of C.
 
christianahannah said:
I find it interesting that the prosecution consultant takes the outline of the bathmat print and overlays it on the sole-prints of Guede and Sollecito. I have not read Vinci extensively to know if he also has done the same. Is Vinci's report available?

Massei concludes the opinons of consultants for the prosecution outlining why they give weight to one over the other.

There is more to this conclusion by Massei on page 354. Summary of Vinci's presentation starts on page 349.
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Very strange that he chooses the same toe I think could not possible be Raffaele's. That part that dips to the right can't be a part of his widest area (the 30mm accross), that is lower down and not at the tip of his toe.
 
LondonJohn said:
And now, all we need to do is draw an outline for the big toe which extends about 5mm left and right from the actual blood/water stain on the mat, and: VOILA! Sollecito's big toe! :rolleyes:
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To continue, here's my attempt at fitting Raffaele's print. The outline is autogenerated, no hand-drawing, size of the print is set according to Rinaldi's pdf and checked with Photoshop ruler tool to be correct. Outer edge of the outline is the outer edge of the reference print.



I tried to fit the instep outline here. We see large parts of the big toe don't correspond to the bloody stain. If we try to fit the toe better, it no longer fits the instep. I can present other possible placements, I'm open to suggestions.
 
Katody Matrass said:
To continue, here's my attempt at fitting Raffaele's print. The outline is autogenerated, no hand-drawing, size of the print is set according to Rinaldi's pdf and checked with Photoshop ruler tool to be correct. Outer edge of the outline is the outer edge of the reference print.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_427054cc4701f576eb.jpg[/qimg]

I tried to fit the instep outline here. We see large parts of the big toe don't correspond to the bloody stain. If we try to fit the toe better, it no longer fits the instep. I can present other possible placements, I'm open to suggestions.
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Try it with Rudy's would be my suggestion.
 
Katody Matrass said:
To continue, here's my attempt at fitting Raffaele's print. The outline is autogenerated, no hand-drawing, size of the print is set according to Rinaldi's pdf and checked with Photoshop ruler tool to be correct. Outer edge of the outline is the outer edge of the reference print.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_427054cc4701f576eb.jpg[/qimg]

I tried to fit the instep outline here. We see large parts of the big toe don't correspond to the bloody stain. If we try to fit the toe better, it no longer fits the instep. I can present other possible placements, I'm open to suggestions.
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Katody, please do not take offense, however, I think you could do a better job hand-drawing the outline of Sollectio's print (or Guede's) rather than having it autogenerated.
 
RoseMontague said:
I think auto-generated avoids any possible confirmation bias, even if it might look better.
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No, I don't mean it looks better. And I am not implying Katody is setting up the outline to match or not match a certain print. I don't think the autogenerated print looks anything like Sollecito's sole-print and I suspect the same will be with Guede's.

Is there a proper way to outline the sole-prints and match them to scale with the bath mat print (instead of the other way around)?

It would also be good to compare Vinci's report with Rinaldi's report. There is access to Rinaldi's. Is there access to Vinci's.
 
OK,
I am open to suggestions. Either nobody is interested in Sarah Scazzi case or maybe I need to start a new thread if there is some interest. The comparisons between Amanda Knox and Sabrina Misseri are already starting. My concern is that Sabrina may be getting similar treatment from the authorities as Amanda received and that is the comparison I find frightening, not the ones comparing Amanda and Sarah, assuming guilt on both of their parts.

http://translate.google.com/transla...10/24/AMthBLBE-sabrina_piangendo_teneva.shtml

Sabrina Misseri remains in prison, weighed down by allegations of a father "who has covered long as he could." For the investigating judge Martin Rose, "has made a decisive contribution" to his father Michael in trapping and strangle her cousin Sarah Scazzi. The motive? Misseri I was afraid that the girl went around to accuse his uncle of sexual harassment. They wanted to give her "a lesson" scare by putting a rope around his neck in a dark garage-cellar that never drops. But at some point Michael began to tighten, Sabrina held her from behind.
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But why Sabrina Misseri must remain in prison? The investigating judge believes that it is based on "risk of flight 'put forward by prosecutors. But adds "the huge danger of being compromised investigations," and she calls "witty and resolute" in its attempts to steer to welcome the statements of relatives and friends. . But what is worse, Sabrina, is how you close the case of the arrest: "Given the media hype of the story, the house would not be easy remedies controls.But above all, "the Misseri has been shown to be the charm, the allure of the cameras now firmly installed in front of and behind the house." The first victim of info-tainement.
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Open to suggestions, including not interested, don't post on this case.
 
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christianahannah said:
No, I don't mean it looks better. And I am not implying Katody is setting up the outline to match or not match a certain print. I don't think the autogenerated print looks anything like Sollecito's sole-print and I suspect the same will be with Guede's.
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At first look it may look different , however here is the outline superimposed on the reference print.



It's outer edge traces the edge of the print, as I wrote.
 
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