Is alcoholism a disease or something else?

"Pluto was recently downgraded from being a planet due to a "reclassification."
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If you remember that was a MAJOR process that involved, voting and meetings and arguing and the media got involved.... it was not just some guy in a lab hitting the backspace and writing "disease".
 
Who says it's being " reclassified ".. There appears to be agreement among many scientists that alcoholism fits some disease models ..

The point was, that coming at it from the disease model endears more sympathy, mitigation for the addict and a more favorable position for grants..

What exactly are you arguing against ?
 
zerospeaks said:
Changing the classification of something in science isn't taken lightly.
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I never said it was. My point is that there are any number of reasons for reclassifications, funding is sometimes one of those reasons and sometimes it's politics, and sometimes a bunch of scientists just reinterpret the same data they've been looking at for years and agree by consensus that a re-evaluation is warranted. It doesn't always mean we have to accept it as written in stone.

GB
 
zerospeaks.... you are quickly reaching troll status. Please stop with the whining and the strawman arguments.

zerospeaks said:
"me: they are claiming alcoholism is being classified as a disease so it can receive more funding"
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This (like most of what you post) is false. Nobody here is "claiming" this. The article that YOU POSTED ON BEHALF OF YOUR EXPERT WIFE said this. So basically your wife is calling HER OWN EVIDENCE "crap." Seriously, you still have no idea what you're posting???

Debating with you is an exercise in futility. You ignore anything that is a valid perspective, and you regularly misconstrue not only what people say, but what YOU say. And as far as me being a "complete" jerk.... if me proving you wrong using your own damn posts is being a jerk, then I am guilty as charged. If that hurts your feelings, it's your fault.

As for the "expert" wife you claim is a scientist, I've had enough of that. Unless she's published something on a medical journal you can link to, anything she presents as evidence from here on out will be considered anecdotal. "She" has contributed nothing to this discussion except vague statments, a bad attitude, and an article that proved herself wrong. To me, that doesn't sound like a scientist who is an expert on alcoholism (which is what you said she was).

zerospeaks said:
Truly you are a model citizen of the JREF forums.
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zerospeaks said:
Perhaps next time you can attack the argument and save us all 30 posts.
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...and once again: :id:
 
zerospeaks said:
My wife argued that it IS in fact a disease and so is Addiction. It is researched as such.
It is classified as such.

You guys didn't like that and started attacking me.
In a very angry and bullying manner I might add.
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You stilol need to stop arguing from authority and learn to make a coherent argument of your own.

It is a behavioral disorder, therefore in some senses it is a disease, in others it is not.
 
Gandalfs Beard said:
Oh please! This is the Internet. Grow a pair. :rolleyes:

GB
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Hmmm...maybe "This is the wild west. Grow a pair." I'd buy into that. If it was the wild west. I'd shoot you just after you said it, mind, but I can see why you'd believe it.

But since when did 'this is a convenient and accessible means of communication' lead inexorably to 'it's ok if I abandon any pretence of courtesy to those who share my community'? I'm sure you're familiar with John Gabriel's Greater Internet Theory, so perhaps the posters in this thread I've now put on ignore believe themselves to be normal people at heart. But with the addition of anonymity and an audience here, you know what they (and you) have become...

Can you PROVE your 'theory' that the two are connected? Or are you going to pretend your gay 'wife' said it? {head banging smiley} Supersized fail!!!!! Do you want fail fries with that?

I'm sorry, I don't know what came over me...
 
I was about to ask Mr Zero is his wife is prepared to say that every one of the estimated 10 million plus alcoholics in the US fit within the same definition/s Mr Zero claims she uses.

Then I mistakenly read the zerospeaks webpage he lists in his sigline and no longer feel the need to continue my participation in the thread.
 
Personally, I don't think this horse is dead yet. :D

Here's a short article from the same website whose articles were unflinchingly misquoted by FattyCatty and zerospeaks that is called "Why alcoholism is not a disease."

Granted, the author is from England, so maybe this "alcholism = disease" silliness is exclusive to America...
 
MikeSun5 said:
Personally, I don't think this horse is dead yet. :D

Here's a short article from the same website whose articles were unflinchingly misquoted by FattyCatty and zerospeaks that is called "Why alcoholism is not a disease."

Granted, the author is from England, so maybe this "alcholism = disease" silliness is exclusive to America...
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Well AA's strongest roots are in the US, so it's no surprise that their conflated Sin/Disease Model is the generally accepted model here.

GB
 
didn't know the NIH basis there decisions on what the AA thinks.
The CDC for that matter also.
 
MikeSun5 said:
Personally, I don't think this horse is dead yet. :D

Here's a short article from the same website whose articles were unflinchingly misquoted by FattyCatty and zerospeaks that is called "Why alcoholism is not a disease."

Granted, the author is from England, so maybe this "alcholism = disease" silliness is exclusive to America...
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I have neither misquoted nor have I quoted from the NCBI. I have quoted from NIAAA, which is also part of NIH. I have also quoted from WHO (not an American organization). Please be more careful in your accusations. The fact that you disagree with my posts does not mean that I misquoted.
 
Gandalfs Beard said:
Well AA's strongest roots are in the US, so it's no surprise that their conflated Sin/Disease Model is the generally accepted model here.
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I don't quite understand how it's even possible to conflate the sin model with the disease model. Questions about validity (of either model) aside, as well as questions regarding your assertion that this conflated model represents either AA's position or the "generally accepted model", aren't those viewpoints rather mutually exclusive?
 
MikeSun5 said:
Personally, I don't think this horse is dead yet. :D

Here's a short article from the same website whose articles were unflinchingly misquoted by FattyCatty and zerospeaks that is called "Why alcoholism is not a disease."

Granted, the author is from England, so maybe this "alcholism = disease" silliness is exclusive to America...
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Not that it's hugely significant, but that author's Australian.
 
Dancing David said:
Protestant moralizing.
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I was not attacking the alcoholic, just merely proposing that it was due to lack of self discipline. That's not saying "they can just stop it if they try harder" because clearly there's reasons why they choose self-destructive paths.

I guess actually in most cases it's probably more of a disorder where they're self-medicating with alcohol, rather than just the inability to stop themselves.

Does a disorder count as a disease?
 
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