Open Letter to Dave Thomas

[Dave Rogers]

I love it when ergo tries to school people on physics. He manages to explore vast new swathes of ignorance in the process.

Really? Temperature is not a measure of heat energy?

Temperature is a measurement of the density of heat energy in an object. If you know the temperature of an object but not its thermal mass, you know nothing about its heat energy content.

Voltage is not a measurement of the energy contained within an electrical circuit?

Correct, it's not. It's a measure of the potential energy density difference between two points. Again, if you don't know the amount of charge present at a specific voltage, you know nothing about the energy present.

Ergo, you need to look up the difference between extensive and intensive properties^WP.

Dave

 

[leftysergeant]

If it fell faster than g for a period of time presumably some item that was itself travelling faster than g impelled the rest downwards faster than g. What was that item and what caused it it to exceed g in the first place ?

"g" is entirely relative. "For the north wall, "g" would be one speed, for somthing falling longer, it would be a greater speed. Let's call the speed of the wall "g (1)" and the speed of an object which interacts with it "g(2)."

We have multiple floors uncoupling from the surrounding structres. If one of them falls loose while the north wall is descending at or about "g(1)" it will be travelling at "g(2)" thus descending faster than the wall. If it then strikes some structure still attached to the wall, it will add enegy to the wall, possibly pushing it downward at more than "g(1)."

Now, to take it to the next level, if the object travelling at g(2) causes the columns supporting the north face to bow inward to the point that they cannot support the upper parts of the strucutre, so that the columns snap under the stress, they are no longer directly under the columns in the rest of the structure to impede its acceleration at g(1) over that distance from which the columns had collapsed.

 

[BigAl]

By the way, does anyone know when the firefighting efforts were stopped on WTC7?

Yes. You can too. Read NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 1 Pages 299-304


http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/NCSTAR1-9index.htm

 

[triforcharity]

By the way, does anyone know when the firefighting efforts were stopped on WTC7?

Define "firefighting efforts".

 

[ergo]

An interesting point since AFAIK there is not a generally agreed scientific definition of "temperature" that is better than the common sense version. The common sense version says "temperature is a measure of how hot or how cold something is."

So:
Temperature X (amount of heat moving) X time = energy^(heat)

I love it when ergo tries to school people on physics. He manages to explore vast new swathes of ignorance in the process.

Temperature is a measurement of the density of heat energy in an object. If you know the temperature of an object but not its thermal mass, you know nothing about its heat energy content.

Guys. Temperature is the measurement of heat energy. Temperature is not energy itself. Okay?

I know you're embarrassed. I know you need to save face. But don't take us down some winding, stupid, narrow alley where you pretend that something is not quite what we think it is, because you're bee-dunkers and you understand the finer, subtle details of science which nobody else does, not even scientists.

Temperature is a measurement of heat energy. It is not heat energy itself. You don't heat things with temperature. Right?

Nor does this have any relevance to anything we were saying about fires in the WTC7. It is a completely stupid aside, typical of what happens when a bee dunker tenet of 9/11 anti-science gets trashed.

 

[ergo]

The whole happy spider & sarcasm thing was funny the first time. Consecutive sarcasm over a couple of pages consecutively gets slightly old...

Happy Spider is my new pet and avatar, so I can't very well get rid of him, can I? And sarcasm unfortunately is simply necessary when arguing with people who believe in invisi-fires and infinite acceleration through matter. Just a warning: it could get worse. Much, much worse.

 

[triforcharity]

Ergo,

Please define "Firefighting operations". Thanks.

 

[T.A.M.]

Funny, I thought that energy was expressed as Joules, or Calories, not Farenheit or Celsius.

TAM

Edit: sorry, forgot to mention BTU and kW Hour.

TAM

 

[ergo]

Here's a better definition, I suppose:

Temperature is a measure of the average energy of the molecules of a body, whereas heat is a measure of the total amount of thermal energy in a body.

http://www.answers.com/topic/temperature

Thermal energy: Internal energy of a system in thermodynamic equilibrium (see thermodynamics) by virtue of its temperature. A hot body has more thermal energy than a similar cold body, but a large tub of cold water may have more thermal energy than a cup of boiling water.

 

[ergo]

Ergo,

Please define "Firefighting operations". Thanks.

The activities of firefighters towards stopping a fire.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Here's a better definition, I suppose:



http://www.answers.com/topic/temperature

It's a concept taught in Physics 101. I'll say it again Ergo, you are out of your league here. You cannot just wing it with science. You need to have at least a basic science education first. The people on this forum will gladly help you along with that, with more than a trace of acerbity, to teach you how things work. But it will vastly help your arguments if you at least understand the terms you use and how you're using them wrong first.

 

[ergo]

Really, Newton's Bit?

Probably of most relevance here is the fact that it is temperature which weakens steel.

 

[BigAl]

Really, Newton's Bit?

Originally Posted by ozeco41
Probably of most relevance here is the fact that it is temperature which weakens steel.

Yes.

 

[BigAl]

The activities of firefighters towards stopping a fire.

Incomplete. Fighting fire is not the only task and not even the primary one.

 

[ergo]

So then, when were the activities of the firefighters towards stopping the WTC 7 fire stopped?

And Newton's Bit can't answer the question posed to him? You have to answer it for him?

 

[triforcharity]

The activities of firefighters towards stopping a fire.

Excellent. Thank you.

So, to answer your question.

Firefighting operations never began in 7WTC.

 

[ergo]

Firefighting operations never began in 7WTC.

Thank you. Then what was Larry Silverstein's comment about "maybe we better pull it" right before they pulled it referring to?

 

[BigAl]

So then, when were the activities of the firefighters towards stopping the WTC 7 fire stopped?

Assume much?

Read NCSTAR NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 1 Pages 299-304

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/NCSTAR1-9index.htm

 

[alienentity]

So then, when were the activities of the firefighters towards stopping the WTC 7 fire stopped?

And Newton's Bit can't answer the question posed to him? You have to answer it for him?

You've been given the reference to NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 1 Pages 299-304 HOW MANY TIMES NOW?

The answer to your question is there. Read it. Are you afraid to read it for some reason? It won't make warts grow on your eyelids or curse you for life, although I would recommend a special 'Truther' antidote I read about which will protect you from absorbing knowledge: you mix 1/4 cup of salt with 10 cloves of garlic and mix with lime juice, drinking it as you read the report.

 

[triforcharity]

Thank you. Then what was Larry Silverstein's comment about "maybe we better pull it" right before they pulled it referring to?

Search and rescue, securing the scene, scene survey, structural observation, fire progression......

Firefighters do more than fight fire.