Group from JREF Cheats to Discredit the 911 "truth" Cult?

[adkinsjr]

I found an interesting claim in the comments of a youtube vid. I wanted to post this here to see if anyone is familiar with this claim. Since the comment refers to some "group from JREF," it caught my attention since I just joined this forum.

The comment is in the context of a youtube video titled "Proof Pentagon 9/11planes can fly low and fast." Followers of the "truth" cult allegedly claimed that planes cannot fly low enough to crash into the pentagon at high speeds, therefore the offical story is a lie, a missile hit the pentagon, new world order is coming, blah blah blah... The video debunks this claim by showing a plane flying low and fast.

A skeptic left the comment:

The claim that it's impossible to fly fast at low altitude was always one of the truthers most ridiculous claims.

The response from user "Ultramediacorp" was interesting:

Actually, it was a request a clique of debunkers asked many in the group to say on CT websites like above top secret .com. The group originated at JREF where we were given a list of CT websites to sign up and pose as truthers. We were given some of the most whacked out CT's to post in an effort to disparage the reputation of truthers. I know I saw it myself.

 

[T.A.M.]

Obviously "Ultramediacorp" is a DISINFO-DISINFO agent.

TAM

 

[Horatius]

I'd call BS. Never heard of this "clique". Why would we want to "disparage the reputation of truthers"? They do a good job of doing that all on their own.

There have been people who have pulled pranks on the truthers (See Unsecured Coins), but without the "Big Reveal", a prank is pointless. The only people who would believe that a group here would go about secretly creating CTs without ever revealing it are those who are already predisposed to seeing us all as "paid shills".

Notice that this fellow offers no evidence beyond "I saw it!" No names, no links, no userids on other forums, nothing. Why would he blow the whistle on this "clique" and not include such corroborating evidence? Just another Truther desperately trying to distance himself from his crazy fellow truthers.

 

[tfk]

Actually, it was a request a clique of debunkers asked many in the group to say on CT websites like above top secret .com. The group originated at JREF where we were given a list of CT websites to sign up and pose as truthers. We were given some of the most whacked out CT's to post in an effort to disparage the reputation of truthers. I know I saw it myself.

One of the few redeeming features of twoofers is that they are really, really crappy liars.

Especially the Young&Stupid ones...


tom

 

[W.D.Clinger]

The comment is in the context of a youtube video titled "Proof Pentagon 9/11planes can fly low and fast." Followers of the "truth" cult allegedly claimed that planes cannot fly low enough to crash into the pentagon at high speeds, therefore the offical story is a lie, a missile hit the pentagon, new world order is coming, blah blah blah... The video debunks this claim by showing a plane flying low and fast.

The claim debunked by that video has been a staple of Rob Balsamo's Pilots for 9/11 Truth. See also the moderated "NASA Engineer (ret.) is a Twoofie?" thread, where Dwain Deets (a new member of JREF) has made similar claims.

The response from user "Ultramediacorp" was interesting:

Balsamo used to post at JREF, but got himself banned. Could "Ultramediacorp" be accusing Rob Balsamo or Dwain Deets of promoting a "whacked out CT"?

 

[adkinsjr]

I'd call BS. Never heard of this "clique". Why would we want to "disparage the reputation of truthers"? They do a good job of doing that all on their own.

There have been people who have pulled pranks on the truthers (See Unsecured Coins), but without the "Big Reveal", a prank is pointless. The only people who would believe that a group here would go about secretly creating CTs without ever revealing it are those who are already predisposed to seeing us all as "paid shills".

Notice that this fellow offers no evidence beyond "I saw it!" No names, no links, no userids on other forums, nothing. Why would he blow the whistle on this "clique" and not include such corroborating evidence? Just another Truther desperately trying to distance himself from his crazy fellow truthers.

I asked him for proof of his claim, we'll see what he says. One major problem with his apparent lie is that he's a member/supporter of the cult, not a debunker. How do I know? If you look at the comments and click on the @ultimatmediacorp you veiw his recent comments on other videos.

So he's clearly not a debunker with inside knowledge, like he claims. Maybe he'll try to rationalize that he was a "former" debunker.

 

[T.A.M.]

Find the person on the internet who hates the JREF 9/11 forum the most, and you likely have your person.

TAM

 

[Oystein]

I asked him for proof of his claim...

Ooh bad tactics! Asking for sproof is considered bad manners in twoofer circles. Only government shills do that.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Find the person on the internet who hates the JREF 9/11 forum the most, and you likely have your person.

TAM

That's really only a very small number of people. The trick would be sorting out all their sockpuppets.

 

[jhunter1163]

My money is on Aldo the Buffet Slayer. He's the most paranoid of the "name" Twoofies.

 

[beachnut]

...
A skeptic left the comment:

The response from user "Ultramediacorp" was interesting:

The guy may be delusional, 911 truth needs no help to make up lies. The "can't fly and hit the Pentagon crap" comes from idiots; here is one: from the patriots who spew woo...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

Capt. Fred Fox – Retired commercial airline pilot, with 33 years experience flying for American Airlines. Commercial aircraft flown: Boeing 707, 727, 747, 767, McDonnell Douglas DC-10, MD-80, and MD-11, Douglas DC-6, and General Dynamics/Convair 990 Coronado. Former U.S. Navy pilot. Aircraft flown: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, 8 years experience.

How can someone fly these planes and spew delusional claptrap?

"I know from my experience that it would have been highly improbable that even a seasoned American test pilot, a military test pilot, could have flown a T-category, aircraft like the 757, into the first floor of the Pentagon because of a thing called Ground Effect." at 50:22 of the video at http://www.911rippleeffect.com/

Not a JREF skeptic, a paranoid conspiracy theorists who never wonder how he was able to land with all the ground effect in the way?

The first dolt I found who said can't fly low and fast to hit the Pentagon; was this one.

Nila Sagadevan was born in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) and educated in Britain. A former commercial pilot, he holds a degree in aeronautical engineering from the University of Edinburgh and works as a communications consultant.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Flying-Without-Training13jun06.htm

I shan't get into the aerodynamic impossibility of flying a large commercial jetliner 20 feet above the ground at over 400 MPH. A discussion on ground effect energy, tip vortex compression, downwash sheet reaction, wake turbulence, and jetblast effects are beyond the scope of this article (the 100,000-lb jetblast alone would have blown whole semi-trucks off the roads.)

These are the nuts who 911 truthers quote mine and spread lies.

 

[Reheat]

The "can't fly and hit the Pentagon crap" comes from idiots; here is one: from the patriots who spew woo...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html


How can someone fly these planes and spew delusional claptrap?

Absurd is not a strong enough word to describe someone with this kind of experience spewing such nonsense. This quackery is equivalent to the same type of nonsense that camatrix spews regarding physics. It is truly unbelievable that anyone could fly all of those different types of aircraft for so many years and not understand Ground Effect thoroughly and completely.

I don't have an explanation nor do I understand how someone like this could be so ignorant.

 

[Lenbrazil]

I assume it is ULTIMA1, he was obsessive and made 3314 posts in about 100 days before he was banned. Besides the similarity of the name, obsession with JREF and ax to grind he dwelt on aviation issues including the hijacker's piloting abilities.

 

[T.A.M.]

Absurd is not a strong enough word to describe someone with this kind of experience spewing such nonsense. This quackery is equivalent to the same type of nonsense that camatrix spews regarding physics. It is truly unbelievable that anyone could fly all of those different types of aircraft for so many years and not understand Ground Effect thoroughly and completely.

I don't have an explanation nor do I understand how someone like this could be so ignorant.

Hatred of the government is a powerful thing. Add a little senility and a dash of paranoia...may be, may be not...who knows.

TAM

 

[Lenbrazil]

The guy may be delusional, 911 truth needs no help to make up lies. The "can't fly and hit the Pentagon crap" comes from idiots; here is one: from the patriots who spew woo...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html


How can someone fly these planes and spew delusional claptrap?


Not a JREF skeptic, a paranoid conspiracy theorists who never wonder how he was able to land with all the ground effect in the way?

The first dolt I found who said can't fly low and fast to hit the Pentagon; was this one.

Quote:
Nila Sagadevan was born in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) and educated in Britain. A former commercial pilot, he holds a degree in aeronautical engineering from the University of Edinburgh and works as a communications consultant.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Flying-Without-Training13jun06.htm



These are the nuts who 911 truthers quote mine and spread lies.

Sagadevan is yet another Truther fraud, the University of Edinburgh does not teach aeronautical engineering, let alone offer degrees in it, and according to 2 people at the engineering school never did. He also claims to have flown as a commercial pilot in Alaska for several years but is not in the FAA database.

 

[beachnut]

Absurd is not a strong enough word to describe someone with this kind of experience spewing such nonsense. This quackery is equivalent to the same type of nonsense that camatrix spews regarding physics. It is truly unbelievable that anyone could fly all of those different types of aircraft for so many years and not understand Ground Effect thoroughly and completely.

I don't have an explanation nor do I understand how someone like this could be so ignorant.

The sad part, Nila's nonsense is being recycled by Veterans Today, Gordon Duff.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/0...ty-of-flying-heavy-aircraft-without-training/

The poor guy was fooled by Nila, or likes to mislead his audience.

I find it funny Nila's paper has this failed statement.

And IFR Rule #1: Never take your eyes off your instruments, because that’s all you have!

Did Nila see the weather on 911? What an idiot. Two idiots, or Duff is just selling soap.


Fetzer's web site still has Nila's failed paper. http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Sagadevan21Feb2006.html
It appears it is a lost link back to the old Scholars, before they split up into Jones Thermite Delusion Dolts, and Fetzers Fantasy DEW Dolts.

 

[Dog Town]

I assume it is ULTIMA1, he was obsessive and made 3314 posts in about 100 days before he was banned. Besides the similarity of the name, obsession with JREF and ax to grind he dwelt on aviation issues including the hijacker's piloting abilities.

Seconded!
What a Stundie goldmine!

 

[Horatius]

I asked him for proof of his claim, we'll see what he says. One major problem with his apparent lie is that he's a member/supporter of the cult, not a debunker. How do I know? If you look at the comments and click on the @ultimatmediacorp you veiw his recent comments on other videos.

So he's clearly not a debunker with inside knowledge, like he claims. Maybe he'll try to rationalize that he was a "former" debunker.

I noticed that myself after searching his user name there. So, for this to be true, one of two things must have happened:

1. He posed as a "skeptic" here long enough to be invited into the secret club via PM or some other non-public communication
2. He saw this plan posted in a public forum, like this one

Of course, there are problems with both options. In either case, though, he should have access to the proof.

My money is on Aldo the Buffet Slayer. He's the most paranoid of the "name" Twoofies.

I don't think so. CIT are so desperate to make a name for themselves, there's no way they'd have an entire YouTube persona that wasn't shilling for them.

 

[adkinsjr]

Ooh bad tactics! Asking for sproof is considered bad manners in twoofer circles. Only government shills do that.

I've already been accused of being a government shill by several "truth" cult followers. They've actually alledged that I was being paid to support the "official narrative" on the youtube. What's frightening is that I know they aren't kidding; they really believe it's true. They'll claim that I don't have enough videos in my favorites, or I don't have enough subscriptions to be real. Truthers have the uncanny ability to make very presumptuous claims on a laughably small amount of "evidence."

 

[adkinsjr]

I noticed that myself after searching his user name there. So, for this to be true, one of two things must have happened:

1. He posed as a "skeptic" here long enough to be invited into the secret club via PM or some other non-public communication
2. He saw this plan posted in a public forum, like this one

Of course, there are problems with both options. In either case, though, he should have access to the proof.

Yes, I'm still waiting for him to respond. I doubt I'll ever hear from him, as I'm pretty sure this secret infiltration squad never existed. It's just another figment of the imagination, like all "truth" cult mythology.

Like you said earlier, no one needs to use deception to discredit truthers. The fact that they have laughably preposterous beliefs--which have all been debunked-- is more than enough.