Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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femr2 said:
Copies of the blueprints for WTC 7 have been requested by numerous individuals (including myself) for several years, to no avail.
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I suspect that unlike WTC1/2, there is no single set of prints that accurately describes WTC7 as of 2001. WTC7 went through major internal renovations and nobody kept a master set of prints.
 
BigAl said:
I suspect that unlike WTC1/2, there is no single set of prints that accurately describes WTC7 as of 2001. WTC7 went through major internal renovations and nobody kept a master set of prints.
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That's fine. Some. Any. Especially if there is the very simplest of details like the height of each floor. That kind of information is particularly useful to determine video tracing scaling metrics. It's rather bizarre that even those kind of details are not available.
 
femr2 said:
That's fine. Some. Any. Especially if there is the very simplest of details like the height of each floor. That kind of information is particularly useful to determine video tracing scaling metrics. It's rather bizarre that even those kind of details are not available.
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And whom have you contacted?
 
Ok i have question how hard would it be for witnesses on the ground watching the events unfold on 911 near the wtc to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb going off if they didnt see the plane enter but they had a pretty clear view of the towers at the moment of impact would it be hard to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb as it enetered and exploded?
What would the chances of witnesses mistaking the planes strike for a bomb going off with a good view?

Now if i am right a jet fuel explosion wouldnt make the same sound as explosives being detonated from a bomb because the explosion blast overpressure in the atmosphere travels much faster than the overpressure wave from rapidly expanding jetfuel and
that exposives rely on massive overpressure and powerful concussive waves to do their damage and that is what demolition charges use to cut through steel a powerful concussive force right?

cheers
 
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thecritta said:
Ok i have question how hard would it be for witnesses on the ground watching the events unfold on 911 near the wtc to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb going off if they didnt see the plane enter but they had a pretty clear view of the towers at the moment of impact would it be hard to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb as it enetered and exploded?
What would the chances of witnesses mistaking the planes strike for a bomb going off with a good view?

Now if i am right a jet fuel explosion wouldnt make the same sound as explosives being detonated from a bomb because the explosion blast overpressure in the atmosphere travels much faster than the overpressure wave from rapidly expanding jetfuel and
that exposives rely on massive overpressure and powerful concussive waves to do their damage that what demolition charges use to cut through steel a powerful concussive blast wave?

cheers
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What thread did you intend to post this mess in?
 
thecritta said:
Ok i have question how hard would it be for witnesses on the ground watching the events unfold on 911 near the wtc to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb going off if they didnt see the plane enter but they had a pretty clear view of the towers at the moment of impact would it be hard to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb as it enetered and exploded?
What would the chances of witnesses mistaking the planes strike for a bomb going off with a good view?
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It would depend on whether they were looking. Someone who wasn't looking when the plane hit, but looked up just after it hit, wouldn't see the plane but would see an explosion. Seems pretty obvious, really.

thecritta said:
Now if i am right a jet fuel explosion wouldnt make the same sound as explosives being detonated from a bomb because the explosion blast overpressure in the atmosphere travels much faster than the overpressure wave from rapidly expanding jetfuel and
that exposives rely on massive overpressure and powerful concussive waves to do their damage that what demolition charges use to cut through steel a powerful concussive blast wave?
Click to expand...

True, the overpressure in a fuel/air deflagration would be very much lower. Demolition explosives, from what little I've heard, make a distinctive, rather high-pitched pop rather than a low rumbling boom. And, of course, not all explosives are demolition explosives; shaped demolition charges would probably sound very different to a typical terrorist bomb. But I suspect very few people have enough experience to distinguish between different types of explosion by sound alone. I probably couldn't.

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
It would depend on whether they were looking. Someone who wasn't looking when the plane hit, but looked up just after it hit, wouldn't see the plane but would see an explosion. Seems pretty obvious, really.



True, the overpressure in a fuel/air deflagration would be very much lower. Demolition explosives, from what little I've heard, make a distinctive, rather high-pitched pop rather than a low rumbling boom. And, of course, not all explosives are demolition explosives; shaped demolition charges would probably sound very different to a typical terrorist bomb. But I suspect very few people have enough experience to distinguish between different types of explosion by sound alone. I probably couldn't.

Dave
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So let me get this right you think that if someone wasnt looking and then looked up just as the explosion occured they might mistake the plane impact and explosion for a bomb?

I also have one more question would the overpressure from the rapidly expanding jet fuel entering the elevator shaft be able to produce enough overpressure to dislodge or damage a section or part of the massive 47 steel core columns
causing part of the core to fail in other words to break off any or some of the connecting columns most probably at the bolted connections? And i am talking about where the plane entered at the floors or just below where the jet fuel exploded down the elevator shafts? And i am not talking about half way down or near the ground floors.
 
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thecritta said:
So let me get this right you think that if someone wasnt looking and then looked up just as the explosion occured they might mistake the plane impact and explosion for a bomb?

I also have one more question would the overpressure from the rapidly expanding jet fuel entering the elevator shaft be able to produce enough overpressure to dislodge a section or part of the massive steel core columns
causing part of the core to fail in other words to break off any or some of the connecting columns most probably at the bolted connections?
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What does this have to do with GWB at the school?


:confused:
 
thecritta said:
So let me get this right you think that if someone wasnt looking and then looked up just as the explosion occured they might mistake the plane impact and explosion for a bomb?
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How could anybody think anything else?

thecritta said:
I also have one more question would the overpressure from the rapidly expanding jet fuel entering the elevator shaft be able to produce enough overpressure to dislodge or damage a section or part of the massive 47 steel core columns
causing part of the core to fail in other words to break off any or some of the connecting columns most probably at the bolted connections? And i am talking about where the plane entered at the floors or just below where the jet fuel exploded down the elevator shafts? And i am not talking about half way down or near the ground floors.
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No. Absolutely no possibility whatsoever. Not by orders of magnitude.

Dave
 
thecritta said:
So let me get this right you think that if someone wasnt looking and then looked up just as the explosion occured they might mistake the plane impact and explosion for a bomb?

I also have one more question would the overpressure from the rapidly expanding jet fuel entering the elevator shaft be able to produce enough overpressure to dislodge or damage a section or part of the massive 47 steel core columns
causing part of the core to fail in other words to break off any or some of the connecting columns most probably at the bolted connections? And i am talking about where the plane entered at the floors or just below where the jet fuel exploded down the elevator shafts? And i am not talking about half way down or near the ground floors.
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Ok guys sry for using too many words what i am trying to say would the overpressure from the exploding jet fuel be enough to rip apart a section of the core columns near where the plane entered?
 
thecritta said:
Ok i have question how hard would it be for witnesses on the ground watching the events unfold on 911 near the wtc to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb going off if they didnt see the plane enter but they had a pretty clear view of the towers at the moment of impact would it be hard to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb as it enetered and exploded?
What would the chances of witnesses mistaking the planes strike for a bomb going off with a good view?

Now if i am right a jet fuel explosion wouldnt make the same sound as explosives being detonated from a bomb because the explosion blast overpressure in the atmosphere travels much faster than the overpressure wave from rapidly expanding jetfuel and
that exposives rely on massive overpressure and powerful concussive waves to do their damage and that is what demolition charges use to cut through steel a powerful concussive force right?

cheers
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Next Xmas ask Santa for some full stops and commas.
 
thecritta said:
Ok guys sry for using too many words what i am trying to say would the overpressure from the exploding jet fuel be enough to rip apart a section of the core columns near where the plane entered?
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You have all those engineers at Gage's travel club, what do they say?
 
thecritta said:
Ok i have question how hard would it be for witnesses on the ground watching the events unfold on 911 near the wtc to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb going off if they didnt see the plane enter but they had a pretty clear view of the towers at the moment of impact would it be hard to mistake one of the plane strikes for a bomb as it enetered and exploded?
What would the chances of witnesses mistaking the planes strike for a bomb
going off with a good view?
Click to expand...

I would guess that someone might confuse the two, I mean, if they hadn't heard a jet go over their head, or the hundreds of people around the, screaming about the plane that just crashed into the towers.....


thecritta said:
Now if i am right a jet fuel explosion wouldnt make the same sound as explosives being detonated from a bomb because the explosion blast overpressure in the atmosphere travels much faster than the overpressure wave from rapidly expanding jetfuel and
that exposives rely on massive overpressure and powerful concussive waves to do their damage and that is what demolition charges use to cut through steel a powerful concussive force right?

cheers
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Yes, well, except for the massive BOOM that would accompany the HE and the boom from a jet fuel explosion. Not to mention the fact that HEs don't create massive fireballs, typically.
 
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