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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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halides1 said:
loverofzion,

Raffaele's presumed DNA on the clasp was borderline LCN (as noted in his appeal), not "abundant." If you started quoting sources, you would not make so many errors. PM me if you don't understand how to use Google. I can help.
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Cite?
 
odeed said:
A theory which he said he was going to back up with sources, I seem to remember him saying a while ago. Has he provided anything more than a single news article from a freelance journalist?

He was also bandying about the conspiracy theory the (DNA) evidence was planted without a single shred of evidence to support it, a theory which seems to be getting more popular on this thread.
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It was hinted that more would be coming out before the appeal about Rudy's alleged ties to the cops. I was not convinced by the theory and even posted a satire about the lack of supporting anecdotal evidence.

The people that have a theory that the DNA was "planted" can speak for themselves. As I have stated previously regarding the alleged DNA on the knife blade (Amanda's appeal uses alleged as well in reference to this "DNA" sample) is that it did not exist on the knife blade at all. The bra clasp I have not decided on but that video of the collection of that item raises doubts in my mind at least. As for the mixed DNA sample in the bathroom, I don't give that one any importance at all even though Mignini thinks it is important.
 
loverofzion said:
Why would a lawyer of Rafi's- interested in excupating his client- advise him to write blatant falsehoods which are easily disproved and make him look that much more guilty?
Really it makes no sense.
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I don't know and I'm still waiting for Mary's cite to prove this.
 
Raffaele's account of his interrogation

treehorn said:
i will look at it again

meantime, some thoughts:

firstly, this is a self-serving diary written by a man that is a proven liar

secondly, a 24 year old male isn't allowed to call his daddy?! please

thirdly, where do you get "naked"?! are you sure? i read they just took his shoes (presumably for a preliminary comparison to crime scene shoe prints)

finally, i'm not inclined to believe anything RS says, including the claim he was denied the right to counsel

his word is worth nothing/ he is a liar/ he admits it, then blames it on AK

might the police have done it? sure

but consider this: all a lawyer does is tell you to stfu/ sign nothing/ write nothing/ talk to no one but me

the very existence of the 'diary' militates in favor of surmising that there's a very good chance RS would not have stopped talking or writing even if his lawyer had showed up the instant he requested a phone call

it looks like he thought he was smart enough to talk his way out of the inculpatory evidence (before, during and after his arrest/ access to counsel)

no lawyer in the world would advise a client to blow away his only real advantage over the state (the right to remain silent/ to force the state to make its case without aid of the accused) by writing a diary subject to confiscation and use in evidence against him in a court of law
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treehorn,

Neither Raffaele nor Amanda was allowed to see a lawyer until the 8th of November. Perhaps the lawyers told them about the possibility of being asked to keep a diary, but perhaps not. I think that Raffaele and Amanda were both very naive and foolish with respect to how they handled their interactions with ILE.

Raffaele's account of the interrogation indicates he asked to speak to his father and also implies he asked for a lawyer. In the book Murder in Italy Candace Dempsey characterized the differences in account of the interrogation as a he said, they said. My question is, "if lying should discredit someone, why do you believe the police?" Many of their lies were collected by Charlie Wilkes and posted here not that long ago. I would say that until and unless recordings of their interrogations are produced, the legitimate questions concerning them cannot be answered.
 
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RoseMontague said:
This is surprising to me. Is it really the position of those that believe that Amanda and Raffaele are guilty that Rudy "aided" Meredith? Those that believe in the innocence of Amanda and Raffaele are quite often accused of a lack of respect for Meredith's memory. I find the concept of stating Rudy helped Meredith a horrible thing to say in light of the fact that he sexually assaulted and murdered Meredith.
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Others may not, but I'm inclined to believe him. It was his story and his story was supported by the presence of the towels in the room and that they were soaked in blood. I fail to see how that's disrespectful to the victim.

I can understand why you don'y like it though. If he tried to stem the bleeding with towels it makes it far less likely that he stabbed Meredith.

Amanda and Raffaele murdered Meredith. They were the ones who stabbed her.
 
Undiscovered

Fulcanelli said:
Cite?
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Fulcanelli,

You will find this discussed on page 142 of Raffaele's appeal document. This is a good time to remind people that Dr. Stefanoni's testimony about the amount of DNA on the clasp was one indication that she had not provided all information to the defense as of the Summer of 2009, more that 18 months into the investigation.

This is one of the many questionable acts she committed. Failure to disclose the results of negative TMB tests is another. For this reason I think that Kevin_Lowe is correct. When someone fails to do his or her job correctly, it trumps other discussion of his or her qualifications.
 
lionking said:
I've read the "Monster of Florence", and Mignini is not shown in a good light, to say the least (not that this has any direct bearing on this case though). Are there other books that you know of refuting Preston's position?
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He actually added that chapter on Mignini AFTER Amanda's arrest and he had joined the FOA.

Just as important is what he doesn't say. He doesn't explain that he was actually arrested because the police believed, with good reason, that he and Spezi had actually been planting evidence at the murder scenes in order to bolster their weak theories for their planned book.

And no, as far as I'm aware no book has been written to counter his claims. I don't think many people care what Preston writes. However, there is quite an interesting article by Barbie Nadeau:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...urders-that-could-save-her/?cid=hp:mainpromo5
 
Fulcanelli said:
Others may not, but I'm inclined to believe him. It was his story and his story was supported by the presence of the towels in the room and that they were soaked in blood. I fail to see how that's disrespectful to the victim.

I can understand why you don'y like it though. If he tried to stem the bleeding with towels it makes it far less likely that he stabbed Meredith.

Amanda and Raffaele murdered Meredith. They were the ones who stabbed her.
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So you don't even believe that Rudy stabbed Meredith? I wonder if this is also the opinion of the majority of those that believe in the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele. My opinion is that Rudy acted alone and that Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with it. Maybe I need to revise my opinion on those that believe otherwise because in some of the discussions I have had with others on the guilty side, this opinion is not generally shared. It is possible then that there are many areas of difference on the guilty side just as there are on the innocent side.
 
Mary_H said:
Yes, I have, and again, this only deepens the mystery about why the police went to the kitchen instead of to Raffaele's knife collection.
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They did take his other knife. They took two from his apartment. They also searched his whole apartment, not just the kitchen.
 
Fulcanelli said:
He actually added that chapter on Mignini AFTER Amanda's arrest and he had joined the FOA.

Just as important is what he doesn't say. He doesn't explain that he was actually arrested because the police believed, with good reason, that he and Spezi had actually been planting evidence at the murder scenes in order to bolster their weak theories for their planned book.

And no, as far as I'm aware no book has been written to counter his claims. I don't think many people care what Preston writes. However, there is quite an interesting article by Barbie Nadeau:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...urders-that-could-save-her/?cid=hp:mainpromo5
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I care what Preston writes, as do many others.
 
RoseMontague said:
My opinion is that the pillow was under her for the purpose of the sexual assault (might help if that pesky semen stain was tested), the towels were used because he did not want to get any more blood on himself during the assault.
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Wow, very detailed and very plausible.
I find it quite amusing, to read all the things RG was able to do, without any resistance of MK and no escaping of her; it sounds, that she must have been intoxicated during all these things: Forcing her to the ground, cutting the bra off with two hands, keeping her mouth shut, sexually assaulting her from behind, torturing and stabbing her etc.; and now he also grabbed a pillow during "his" sexual-attack.
Concerning the towel. Do you think he first stabbed the victim, then went away, grabbed a towel, returned back to the bleeding victim, placed the towel on his trousers and then started the sexual attack? Aside from the fact, that this theory is in itself implausible, it doesn`t explain, why the towel was so thoroughly blood-soaked. The towel can`t get soaked in blood to such a degree, if it`s kept away to some distance from the blood source and much less if the person, as it`s the case in your "theory", is eager not to get blood on his clothes.
 
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treehorn said:
i agree

someone just needs to post that picture of the big 'F U knife' sitting atop the tray holding harmless, ordinary little utensils

(i don't have that option, yet)

it's worth a thousand words
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This one? This is from after they removed the knife:

image.php


From perugiamurderfile.org
 
LiamG. said:
Wow, very detailed and very plausible.
I find it quite amusing, to read all the things RG was able to do, without any resistance of MK and no escaping of her; it sounds, that she must have been intoxicated during all these things: Forcing her to the ground, cutting the bra off with two hands, keeping her mouth shut, sexually assaulting her from behind, torturing and stabbing her etc.; and now he also grabbed a pillow during "his" attack.
Concerning the towel. Do you think he first stabbed the victim, then went away, grabbed a towel, returned back to the bleeding victim and then placed the towel on his trousers? Aside from the fact, that this theory is in itself implausible, it doesn`t explain, why the towel was so thoroughly blood-soaked. The towel can`t get soaked in blood to such a degree, if it`s kept away to some distance from the blood source and much less if the person, as it`s the case in your "theory", is eager not to get blood on his clothes.
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He already had blood on his clothes, it is when he took his pants off that he did not want to get blood on himself. I don't think Meredith was in any position to scream at that point after 3 large woulds to the neck. This is a theory, the fact that both you and Fulcanelli believe that Rudy was "aiding" Meredith is another. I don't find that theory even remotely possible. I will try to avoid saying Wow or quite amusing, however, Oops.
 
RoseMontague said:
He makes it clear it is a theory, like your "supposition" regarding Amanda's short stories. As theories go, I have seen worse and he supports his theories with pretty convincing arguments.
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What's convincing about it?

Moreover, he hides his true source for the theory. He claims it was Bob Graham, when in fact Bob Graham made it clear his source was, drumroll.....Chris Mellas!

'nuff said.
 
Mary_H said:
Why would you commit an unplanned murder with a butcher knife when you have a smaller, sharper knife in your pocket?
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Raffaele did use the smaller sharper knife in his pocket. That's what caused the smaller wound. Amanda used the kitchen knife as Raffaele needed his ;)
 
LiamG. said:
Wow, very detailed and very plausible.
I find it quite amusing, to read all the things RG was able to do, without any resistance of MK and no escaping of her
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He did break her neck, which would no doubt have hampered her ability to resist subsequently.
 
Fulcanelli said:
Raffaele did use the smaller sharper knife in his pocket. That's what caused the smaller wound. Amanda used the kitchen knife as Raffaele needed his ;)
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Do you think the Kercher family would be happy to see you using smiley symbols while describing the murder of their daughter?
 
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