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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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DNA forensics and Dr. Stefanoni

Machiavelli said:
Though, I'm almost sure titles 3 - 4 - 5 are not by the same P. Stefanoni, even if the PubMed enlists them as the same Author.
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Machiavelli,

It is possible that 6 is by the same authors as 3, 4, and 5. Neither article 1 nor 2 covers DNA forensics.
 
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Withnail1969 said:
Not my research. I'm sure anybody who knows anything about the case has seen the same photograph. I am sure you, for example, have seen it.

You're interpreting Sollecito's statement to mean that he definitely claimed to know the girls had no knives. I don't read it that way.
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I wasn't interpreting anything at all. I was pointing out an apparent discrepancy.

You're welcome to do what you like with it. Interpret away. Mary_H seemed to think it was important, otherwise she wouldn't have chosen to single out the citation, select that one portion, quote it here in this thread, and boldface the part I noticed. Maybe you should take up your interpretation concerns with her. Let us know how that works out.

So far, as nearly as I can determine, we've got a knife (sharp, or possibly dull) that either did or didn't prick Meredith (or maybe Knox ... or not) in Sollecito's apartment, unless it was the girls' apartment, which was or wasn't well equipped with knives of their own.

That's all aside from the DNA discussion.

What's to interpret?

There are plenty of people interpreting stuff pretty much full time around here already. I'll leave that to them, and keep my amateur status.
 
halides1 said:
When I searched for articles coauthored by Dr. Hampikian at PubMed, here is what I found:

Ribonucleotide and ribonucleoside determination by ambient pressure ion mobility spectrometry.
Kanu AB, Hampikian G, Brandt SD, Hill HH Jr.
Anal Chim Acta. 2010 Jan 18;658(1):91-7. Epub 2009 Oct 31.
PMID: 20082780 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Time for DNA disclosure.
Krane DE, Bahn V, Balding D, Barlow B, Cash H, Desportes BL, D'Eustachio P, Devlin K, Doom TE, Dror I, Ford S, Funk C, Gilder J, Hampikian G, Inman K, Jamieson A, Kent PE, Koppl R, Kornfield I, Krimsky S, Mnookin J, Mueller L, Murphy E, Paoletti DR, Petrov DA, Raymer M, Risinger DM, Roth A, Rudin N, Shields W, Siegel JA, Slatkin M, Song YS, Speed T, Spiegelman C, Sullivan P, Swienton AR, Tarpey T, Thompson WC, Ungvarsky E, Zabell S.
Science. 2009 Dec 18;326(5960):1631-2. No abstract available.
PMID: 20019271 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Absent sequences: nullomers and primes.
Hampikian G, Andersen T.
Pac Symp Biocomput. 2007:355-66.
PMID: 17990505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free Article
Related citations

An organizational model of transcription factor binding sites for a histone promoter in D. melanogaster.
Crayton ME 3rd, Ladd CE, Sommer M, Hampikian G, Strausbaugh LD.
In Silico Biol. 2004;4(4):537-48.
PMID: 15752071 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free Article
Related citations

Long-distance charge transport in duplex DNA: the phonon-assisted polaron-like hopping mechanism.
Henderson PT, Jones D, Hampikian G, Kan Y, Schuster GB.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1999 Jul 20;96(15):8353-8.
PMID: 10411879 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free PMC ArticleFree text

Effect on embryos of injection of phosphorothioate-modified oligonucleotides into pregnant mice.
Gaudette MF, Hampikian G, Metelev V, Agrawal S, Crain WR.
Antisense Res Dev. 1993 Winter;3(4):391-7.
PMID: 8155980 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Evolution of sex determination and the Y chromosome: SRY-related sequences in marsupials.
Foster JW, Brennan FE, Hampikian GK, Goodfellow PN, Sinclair AH, Lovell-Badge R, Selwood L, Renfree MB, Cooper DW, Graves JA.
Nature. 1992 Oct 8;359(6395):531-3.
PMID: 1406969 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Complete amino acid sequence of chicken cartilage link protein deduced from cDNA clones.
Deák F, Kiss I, Sparks KJ, Argraves WS, Hampikian G, Goetinck PF.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1986 Jun;83(11):3766-70.
PMID: 3459154 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

When I searched for forensic DNA publications coauthored by Dr. Stefanoni, I came up empty-handed. I did find two biochemistry-related articles coauthored by a P. Stefanoni, but I cannot verify whether or not she is the same person. Do you have her resume?
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I knew that was coming. I'm surprised Fulcanelli actually decided to challenge you on this matter.
 
halides1 said:
When I searched for forensic DNA publications coauthored by Dr. Stefanoni, I came up empty-handed. I did find two biochemistry-related articles coauthored by a P. Stefanoni, but I cannot verify whether or not she is the same person. Do you have her resume?
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She is the same person.
There are publications dealing with DNA forensics by Stefanoni, because I saw citations. I never saw the publications though.
By the way, there is no "forensic DNA" publication by Hampikian neither. I see only one forensics related title, but it is an article written after the case (2009) (the author already took his public position).
 
quadraginta said:
I wasn't interpreting anything at all. I was pointing out an apparent discrepancy.

You're welcome to do what you like with it. Interpret away. Mary_H seemed to think it was important, otherwise she wouldn't have chosen to single out the citation, select that one portion, quote it here in this thread, and boldface the part I noticed. Maybe you should take up your interpretation concerns with her. Let us know how that works out.

So far, as nearly as I can determine, we've got a knife (sharp, or possibly dull) that either did or didn't prick Meredith (or maybe Knox ... or not) in Sollecito's apartment, unless it was the girls' apartment, which was or wasn't well equipped with knives of their own.

That's all aside from the DNA discussion.

What's to interpret?

There are plenty of people interpreting stuff pretty much full time around here already. I'll leave that to them, and keep my amateur status.
Click to expand...

I think we have now established that the girls' apartment had plenty of knives (see the photo above). That is a fact not open to 'interpretation'. If anyone says the girls didn't have any knives, they are wrong. I also don't believe Sollecito was saying he definitely knew the girls had no knives. He was just postulating a possible reason why Amanda might have borrowed the knife.
 
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halides1 said:
It is likely that 6 is by the same authors as 3, 4, and 5.
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I don't know if it's the same but it is obvious that 6 it is not Patrizia Stefanoni, the article is too old.
 
Malkmus said:
Fulcanelli, I'm curious and don't think I've ever heard your personal interpretation of the knife evidence. How do you believe the knife from Rafaelle's came to be used in the murder?
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I'm not certain, as I wasn't there...but I think Judge Massei's explanation is as good as any.
 
Malkmus said:
The fact that he is the only person whose evidence shows he was at the crime scene while a murder took place.
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And yet again, we've forgotten the bra clasp, footprints, witnesses, DNA....

Like I said...amnesia seems to be a theme.
 
Kevin Lowe said:
Good work, although googling gets you a substantially similar list.
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Your google list has 1,360 results, mine has 6.

May I ask why you think some articles are by our Stefanoni and some not, and how you know that any of them are by our Stefanoni?
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Because I did a check on the CV page of her collegue M. L. Chiusano, checked for her professor del Gaudio, and on Patrizia Stefanoni on the Journal of Biological Chemistry (jbc.org).
 
Kevin Lowe said:
There is no good evidence that Rudy did not get in by the window, merely an unsupported assertion by the police contradicted by photographs of the scene, and some extraordinarily tenuous conjecture by Massei that he illegitimately presents as conclusive logic.
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This is down to the actual evidence, not assertions. You may confuse assertions with evidence (on a daily basis), but rational people and most importantly, courts of law do not.

Kevin Lowe said:
Okay, we'll go with the long version. Your implied argument was "Stefanoni got a good result, therefore she could not have been using her equipment incorrectly". It's circular reasoning because it assumes that her result was correct to get to the conclusion that she did everything right.

The fact is she was using her equipment incorrectly, and since the knife was nigh certainly at home with Raffaele and Amanda when Meredith was murdered it's a safe bet that Stefanoni screwed up by misusing her apparatus.
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It doesn't matter how she was using her machine...it would not just make up a profile that does not exist, least of all one that actually exists and just happens top be that of the murder victim in the crime she's investigating. Perhaps you could explain how that could accidentally occur?

Kevin Lowe said:
Nothing. For all I know it's even true, and Meredith was murdered by a random guy who left no evidence of his existence, just after she had consensual, casual sex with a creepy local criminal she didn't know who she met outside her apartment at 21:05 or so. I don't think it's very likely though, do you?
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I wasn't aware "likely" was one of you requirements, especially in light of your posts over recent months. I was under the impression you considered "likely" as at best superfluous and at worst, something that just got in the way.
 
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Machiavelli said:
Your google list has 1,360 results, mine has 6.

Because I did a check on the CV page of her collegue M. L. Chiusano, checked for her professor del Gaudio, and on Patrizia Stefanoni on the Journal of Biological Chemistry (jbc.org).
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I get that, but how do you rule out the possibility that it's some other P. Stefanoni showing up in the final stage, the search of JBC? That's the bit I don't yet follow.

(Is there more to this than a mere argument from authority, though? As I see it even if Stefanoni wrote the book on DNA analysis she still made provably false statements about DNA forensics and misused her equipment to jack up a spurious result, and that wouldn't change if her CV was nine miles long. If I've lost track of an important point here I'd appreciate correction).
 
Another couple of Stefanoni's publications:

"The Italian National Police DVI team "
A. La Rosa, A. Caglià, P. Asili, P. Stefanoni, A. Spinella, R. Biondo
Forensic Science International: Genetics Supplement Series
August 2008 (Vol. 1, Issue 1, Pages 467-468)

"The use of the Y-chromosome not only for identification purpose but for investigation also"
P. Stefanoni, A. La Rosa, P. Asili, R. Biondo, A. Spinella, A. Caglià
Forensic Science International: Genetics Supplement Series
August 2008 (Vol. 1, Issue 1, Pages 448-450)
 
Withnail1969 said:
I think we have now established that the girls' apartment had plenty of knives (see the photo above). That is a fact not open to 'interpretation'. If anyone says the girls didn't have any knives, they are wrong.
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I am very happy for you, Withnail. I cannot express how eagerly I await the opportunity to witness your devastating rebuttal of those people.

I also don't believe Sollecito was saying he definitely knew the girls had no knives. He was just postulating a possible reason why Amanda might have borrowed the knife.
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Yes, of course. He seems to do that a lot, doesn't he. Postulate, I mean.

You're doing good work here. Keep it up. Get together with Mary_H, and when the two of you get done interpreting Sollecito's postulations together be sure and give us an update.

Thanks.
 
Malkmus said:
No evidence of anyone but him being present during the murder.
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You forget that the bathmat print is not compatible with Guede and compatible with Sollecito.
You forget the bra clasp.
You forget the lies hamperig the investigations.
 
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