Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Alt+F4]

Have you ever tried putting your foot into a sink which is at waist height? Not to mention the fact that this would be an incredibly inefficient way to try to wash blood off a trouser leg - gravity would take the blood and water in the wrong direction - towards the waistband of the trousers.

It makes little sense that he was trying to clean up at all. Why clean up then go back into the blood-soaked room? And again, according to Steve Moore, it would be impossible for someone to leave that room without blood on the bottom of their shoes.

I'm suggesting instead that he might have had patches of blood on his trouser legs - not enough to drip off but definitely enough that he needed to wash the blood off before he was publicly visible again. And if he ran water from the bidet onto these patches of blood, it's perfectly plausible that a blood/water mixture pooled in the bidet, into which he might have placed the sole of his foot. In fact, the remnants of blood/water pooling were indeed found around the plughole of the bidet the following day. And the footprint was actually made in a fairly dilute blood/water mixture - it's only the enhanced photos that show it with any real clarity.

If he only had patches of blood on his trouser legs then it makes no sense that he would have taken off his shoe and sock and placed his naked foot in the water. There was no reason for it unless you're suggesting that he took off his shoes and socks in order take off his pants to clean them. If that's the case then there was no reason to use the bidet, the sink was right there.

 

[loverofzion]

Amanda and Raffaele had no reason to expect the police to sweep in. If they had, they would not have kept the murder weapon on display in the kitchen drawer.

Well maybe they should have been on the lookout for that possibility.
Anyway they thought they had scrubbed it clean, that they had outsmarted the police.
Such was their arrogance and inexperience with the long arm of the law.
.
Probably stemmed from AK's knowledge from watching CSI TV shows.

 

[loverofzion]

loverofzion,

The defense made the suggestion that since the flat was recently cleaned with lysoform, this is what caused the odor. See page 212 of Murder in Italy. On the other hand, I am unaware of any evidence that the flat actually was cleaned with bleach. Given that the amount of bleach in the flat had stayed the same for several months, IIRC, I doubt that it was. Whether Finzi acknowledged his error or not, I am not certain.

You have posted over 200 comments here. I do not recall a single one with a citation of the primary literature or even a citation of a contemporaneous news report or a page number in a book. Are you capable of providing citations for any of your 200 comments? I would like you to document all of them.

Why don't you start with checking YOUR own citations before quoting a bald lie.i.e., the police officer amended his stament to say he didn't actually smell bleach; then saying "Whether he acknowledged his error or not I am not certain".

 

[loverofzion]

What did she buy?

No one knew; possibly she left the store without purchasing anything.

 

[loverofzion]

I believe that the second most frequent crime in the world is the falsification of police reports and evidence. I believe the most frequent crime in the world is the falsification of income reports and tax data.

One should not assume the police in Italy or anywhere else are gods and above exaggeration, falsification, mistakes, supplication and extortion (doing what the boss wants for a promotion).

Twenty million arrests in the USA alone. Probably one arrest report for each 7 income tax reports. The falsification rate, I theorize, is the same.

I ask Loverofzion and the PMFers why they believe the police are more honest then the average person. Why shouldn't the police work in the AK & RS case be considered as, to some degree, flawed? (because the Italian government will sue you for slander if you speak against the police or government?)

If you bravely venture over to PMF today you will see that the forensic expert Stefanoni was an independent expert; the results were reviewed in 2008 by Dr. Biondo; the Kerchers' expert Dr. Torricelli and RG's lawyer Dr. Barbero.

All agreed there was no transferral of DNA; that the knife held the biological profiles of both AK and MK and furthermore the defense were notified of the time and place the tests were performed and CHOSE NOT TO SHOW UP as part of their defense strategy.

So where's the conspiracy?

 

[loverofzion]

If you bravely venture over to PMF today you will see that the forensic expert Stefanoni was an independent expert; the results were reviewed in 2008 by Dr. Biondo; the Kerchers' expert Dr. Torricelli and RG's lawyer Dr. Barbero.

All agreed there was no transferral of DNA; that the knife held the biological profiles of both AK and MK and furthermore the defense were notified of the time and place the tests were performed and CHOSE NOT TO SHOW UP as part of their defense strategy.

So where's the conspiracy?

PS-Where have you ever heard that the Italian government will sue you for slander 'IF YOU SPEAK AGAINST THE POLICE OR GOVERNMENT"???

Again this is just contrived nonsense; Amanda is being tried for slander for falsely accusing the interrogating officer of cuffing her on the back of her head, among other "abuse" she suffered at the Questura.
Funnyk, her lawyers never took up that particular battle cry.
This is hardly the same as simply "speaking against the police or government".

 

[loverofzion]

I believe that the second most frequent crime in the world is the falsification of police reports and evidence. I believe the most frequent crime in the world is the falsification of income reports and tax data.

One should not assume the police in Italy or anywhere else are gods and above exaggeration, falsification, mistakes, supplication and extortion (doing what the boss wants for a promotion).

Twenty million arrests in the USA alone. Probably one arrest report for each 7 income tax reports. The falsification rate, I theorize, is the same.

I ask Loverofzion and the PMFers why they believe the police are more honest then the average person. Why shouldn't the police work in the AK & RS case be considered as, to some degree, flawed? (because the Italian government will sue you for slander if you speak against the police or government?)

See my above post.
Apologies for the missed quote.

 

[loverofzion]

I am qualified to make the statements I have made. What is yours?

How are you qualified?
Do you want us to accept your statements because you say you are.
I never claimed to be a scientific expert with a scientific mind as you have repeatedly.

 

[loverofzion]

I can't think of any other evidence the prosecution had. What did the loads consist of?




Because she was worried about the knife.




I don't claim a deliberate conspiracy.

Do you claim an accidental conspiracy?
How can a conspiracy be not deliberate?

 

[loverofzion]

I can't think of any other evidence the prosecution had. What did the loads consist of?




Because she was worried about the knife.




I don't claim a deliberate conspiracy.

Try reading the Motivations Report and you may get an idea of what the prosecution's evidence consisted of.
That is, if you really want to help the convicted pair in their appeals coming up.

 

[loverofzion]

I can't think of any other evidence the prosecution had. What did the loads consist of?




Because she was worried about the knife.




I don't claim a deliberate conspiracy.

And why do you suppose she might be worried about the knife?

 

[loverofzion]

The question was asked why Massei does not mention this testimony from Putumi or Gino that Frank relates stating the very real possibility that there was no DNA on the knife blade.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

It was also stated that the defense and defense experts all agreed that Meredith's DNA was on the blade of the knife.

That is incorrect as Frank's quotes demonstrate as well as the four quotes I provided a few days ago from the appeals regarding this issue.

Can we get Frank's quotes?

 

[loverofzion]

They found the larger knife on November 6th. On November 9th, Judge Claudia Matteini said the murder had been committed with a small knife. I'm not sure the autopsy was even finalized by that time.

The fact is, we don't know why they went looking for a larger knife on November 6th. With the information we have, it's almost inexplicable.




I didn't deny he said it. Reread my post.

You don't deny he said it, it is on record.
But how do you explain his deliberate lie?

 

[loverofzion]

Can you back up what the polite poster has ever posted that would deserve from you such a snide question?

Read through and you will see.

 

[Justinian2]

Just to follow up on my previous post, the details of the testing of the knife I read (a while ago now) from Massei report translation, the discussion is spread out over 100+ pages, specific citations from pg 255, defense expert Dr. Gino:

Qubit fluorometer^WP, as the wiki mentions, "uses fluorescent dyes to determine the concentration of nucleic acids and proteins in a sample", from what I gather this was machine which was tweaked because of the "too low" results.

Pg 258, of the report:

PCR amplification of 28 cycles is the standard amplification, so even though the amount of DNA was LCN, the DNA profile was not extracted through extra amplifications associated with "LCN testing" method, so any contamination would of shown up in subsequent standard tests.

The possibilities:

1) The police and prosecution didn't add enough contamination to the knife to get more than a LCN. Perhaps rubbing a hair along the blade wasn't enough.

2) The lab wasn't a LCN qualified lab.

3) The samples weren't collected with LCN procedures.

4) Or AK did take the knife from the drawer at RS's and ignored all the knives at her own place. There was, for the first time in recorded history, a double knife to the neck attack by people that didn't know each other for longer than a week, if at all. Perhaps that the ping didn't happen and the alibis were incorrect, the prosecutor's fantastic story of exotic sex was correct and Amanda took the phones and threw them away, but kept the cheap knife and murder weapon and cleaned up all of their evidence but none of Guede's DNA and fingerprints and decided not to leave town and the ToD was not what scientific method indicated.

I put the chance of 1, 2, & 3 at 100%. I put the chance of 4 at zero percent.

 

[RoseMontague]

Can we get Frank's quotes?

Posted earlier today.

 

[Alt+F4]

The possibilities:

1) The police and prosecution didn't add enough contamination to the knife to get more than a LCN. Perhaps rubbing a hair along the blade wasn't enough.

2) The lab wasn't a LCN qualified lab.

3) The samples weren't collected with LCN procedures.

4) Or AK did take the knife from the drawer at RS's and ignored all the knives at her own place. There was, for the first time in recorded history, a double knife to the neck attack by people that didn't know each other for longer than a week, if at all. Perhaps that the ping didn't happen and the alibis were incorrect, the prosecutor's fantastic story of exotic sex was correct and Amanda took the phones and threw them away, but kept the cheap knife and murder weapon and cleaned up all of their evidence but none of Guede's DNA and fingerprints and decided not to leave town and the ToD was not what scientific method indicated.

I put the chance of 1, 2, & 3 at 100%. I put the chance of 4 at zero percent.

Please present evidence of 1, that the police contaminated the knife, something you are 100% certain of.

 

[LondonJohn]

If you bravely venture over to PMF today you will see that the forensic expert Stefanoni was an independent expert; the results were reviewed in 2008 by Dr. Biondo; the Kerchers' expert Dr. Torricelli and RG's lawyer Dr. Barbero.

All agreed there was no transferral of DNA; that the knife held the biological profiles of both AK and MK and furthermore the defense were notified of the time and place the tests were performed and CHOSE NOT TO SHOW UP as part of their defense strategy.

So where's the conspiracy?

Do you accept everything that is said on other forums as absolute fact?

Do you know who Dr Stefanoni worked (and works) for? The Scientific Police - or Forensic Science Police Service - (Polizia Scientifica), which is part of the Central Anticrime Directorate (DAC), which is itself a branch of....wait for it.....the Italian State Police (Polizia di Stato).

Do you know who Dr Biondo is? He's Dr Stefanoni's superior at the Scientific Police (and is of course also employed by the Italian State Police).

Do you know which police force conducted the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher? I bet you can guess........, yes! The Italian State Police!

Here's the relevant page from the Italian State Police's English language website:

http://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/966-Investigations

Do you want to reassess your opinion as to just how "independent" Stefanoni and Biondo are, given that both are members of the Italian State Police, and Biondo is Stefanoni's boss?

 

[Justinian2]

Posted earlier today.

I was given a warning last week from the moderator who told me not to answer to off topic or rule violations/rule violators but instead to hit the "report post" button. Today a moderator left a post that we were not to press the 'report post' button.

The irony is that this post will probably be reported. (I hope not)

So I ask this on-topic question. When is the appeal?

I think the continuation of the slander suit will continue next month. What is the law regarding that? Don't the Italians have an "Abuse of Power" law or a "Freedom of Speech" law or the "Right to testify without intimidation" law or anything?

Anybody? I am not asking just RoseMontague.

 

[RoseMontague]

Just to follow up on my previous post, the details of the testing of the knife I read (a while ago now) from Massei report translation, the discussion is spread out over 100+ pages, specific citations from pg 255, defense expert Dr. Gino:



Qubit fluorometer^WP, as the wiki mentions, "uses fluorescent dyes to determine the concentration of nucleic acids and proteins in a sample", from what I gather this was machine which was tweaked because of the "too low" results.

Pg 258, of the report:


PCR amplification of 28 cycles is the standard amplification, so even though the amount of DNA was LCN, the DNA profile was not extracted through extra amplifications associated with "LCN testing" method, so any contamination would of shown up in subsequent standard tests.

The voltage on the electrophoresis was turned up past the manufacturers maximum recommended level (several times).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_electrophoresis