Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris_Halkides]

lysoform

The DNA was found embedded ina groove; possibly the bleach did not reach in there.

What is your source for the police officer amending his testimony that the apt. smelled of bleach?

Here is a citation on the clean smell. Have you ever given a citation? If you don't know how, PM me and I will try to help.

 

[RoseMontague]

Regarding the LCN testing of the knife, I was also under the impression that Stefanoni increased the amplification beyond standard to obtain the DNA results from the knife, but I seem to remember reading since that she actually increased the sample size (or number of cells) to be tested gradually until DNA protein was detected, thus the "Too low/Too low..." notes, and the knife DNA was tested using standard PCR methods.

1. The DNA wasn’t amplified enough; the very weak fluorescence was simply blown up.

http://www.sciencespheres.com/2010/03/lcn-dna-part-ii-watch-where-you-sneeze.html

And from my post this morning:

(She means it should have be run without the sample on the substrate. The substrate is a gel on which the electric field is applied and, in case of a stronger-than-recommended electric field, if pieces of DNA from a previous test are around, the machine may read them, as it probably happened in this case).

Amanda's appeal

<<and the electrophoresis was repeated increasing the amount of
amplified put in the tube for electrophoretic analysis, showed that
in some respects is better for others it is worse because I'm the
information that is of alleles but I lost it appeared others.E
This is data available>>. (Oct. 4 preliminary hearing transcripts
2008, p.. 181).

Looks to me like she just turned up the "volume".

That last quote may indicate she also did what you suggest, which would make her results even more suspect, I would suspect.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Stop using the report function to report posts that you merely disagree with. Content you disagree with is not against the Membership Agreement, nor can you report posts because you believe it "degrades the topic." Those who continue to abuse the report function will be suspended.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[LondonJohn]

Myriad reasons for electing to wear a certain size shoe?
What might these reasons be?

I am so glad you are only "helping to explain" and not simply explaining.

I have absolutely no idea - nor do I need to have any idea. Maybe Guede simply thought that women believed the myth about men with large feet - who knows....

And it's not I who is "helping to explain" - it's Guede's second toe length that is "helping to explain".

Lastly, it's not on JREF that the crass and simplistic error was made of assuming that Guede's and Sollecito's foot lengths corresponded proportionately to their shoe sizes. The plain fact is that their foot lengths are only 3mm different, despite the four shoe sizes difference. It doesn't matter why that is so, it is just so. That's the only thing that's important here.

 

[loverofzion]

I think what you may be trying to say is "Stefanoni tested it for blood, and the test came back negative, so she decided that those grapes were sour and the sample was too small to test for blood anyway, so it doesn't prove anything, so there!".

No, you have misinterpreted what I said.
But thanks anyway, next time I will ask if I want my words further explicated.

 

[Justinian2]

No, you have misinterpreted what I said.
But thanks anyway, next time I will ask if I want my words further explicated.

I disagree with this post and also your posts numbered 9606, 9747, 9737, 9738, 9739, 9742, 9743, 9744, 9752, 9757, 9760, 9761,9762, 9763, 9764, 9771, 9775, 9777, 9778 (and others)

Rather than write a separate post for each disagreement with your post, I have expressed my disagreements all at once. Loverofzion, who made you God with your cheap opinions/denials of the work of others?

I have read the posts of the members that you disagree with and only say: "Excellent job" to the other members of this forum. I agree the other members. Loverofzion is not a majority even though his short posts of denial and disagreement are everywhere this morning.

 

[loverofzion]

Here is a citation on the clean smell. Have you ever given a citation? If you don't know how, PM me and I will try to help.

I read your citation and there was NO mention of the police officer AMENDING that there was NOT a strong smell of bleach.

Which citations do you want me to help you with?

 

[colonelhall]

loverofzion I had no idea that you had been made a god. Being a non-believer, you will understand that I will not be kneeling down in front of you. However, be assured that your presence here is much appreciated and seen as a beacon of sanity in an environment that "some people would say" ....... no I shall not go on.

 

[loverofzion]

I have absolutely no idea - nor do I need to have any idea. Maybe Guede simply thought that women believed the myth about men with large feet - who knows....

And it's not I who is "helping to explain" - it's Guede's second toe length that is "helping to explain".

Lastly, it's not on JREF that the crass and simplistic error was made of assuming that Guede's and Sollecito's foot lengths corresponded proportionately to their shoe sizes. The plain fact is that their foot lengths are only 3mm different, despite the four shoe sizes difference. It doesn't matter why that is so, it is just so. That's the only thing that's important here.

How do you know it is so?

 

[colonelhall]

Justinian 2 "Excellent job" to the other members of this forum."

Many thanks, but why so harsh with loverofzion?

 

[loverofzion]

Wasn't Amanda supposedly shopping for bleach early in the morning after the murder?

Amanda was sighted in the Conad store when the owner opened at 7:45 the morning after the murder.
The prosecution has never claimed that she bought bleach.

 

[RoseMontague]

loverofzion
your original post on the knife blade/blood was:

Again, read the report.
Stefanoni said there was not a sufficient sample to test for blood.

I took this to mean it was not tested due to the sample size, not that it was tested and Stephanoni said the negative results could be due to the small sample size despite her previous testimony regarding the extremely sensitive nature of the test and her statement at that time (preliminary hearing) that it was not blood.

If I misinterpreted what you were saying, then I apologize.

 

[Justinian2]

I believe that the second most frequent crime in the world is the falsification of police reports and evidence. I believe the most frequent crime in the world is the falsification of income reports and tax data.

One should not assume the police in Italy or anywhere else are gods and above exaggeration, falsification, mistakes, supplication and extortion (doing what the boss wants for a promotion).

Twenty million arrests in the USA alone. Probably one arrest report for each 7 income tax reports. The falsification rate, I theorize, is the same.

I ask Loverofzion and the PMFers why they believe the police are more honest then the average person. Why shouldn't the police work in the AK & RS case be considered as, to some degree, flawed? (because the Italian government will sue you for slander if you speak against the police or government?)

 

[Withnail1969]

Amanda was sighted in the Conad store when the owner opened at 7:45 the morning after the murder.
The prosecution has never claimed that she bought bleach.

What did she buy?

 

[Mary_H]

And what ihn your opinion made Raf's knife that special that it had to be trasnported to his girlfriend's house?
We just read here that it was a cheap blunt knife.
So which one is it?

It is the judge's contention, not katy_did's, that the knife was carried to Amanda's house.

 

[Mary_H]

The prosecution had loads more on which to convict her than the double DNA knife.

She would have gone down as hard even without the police having discovered it.

I can't think of any other evidence the prosecution had. What did the loads consist of?

Why do you suppose Amanda was taped saying to Edda,"I'm worried about the knife" while in prison?

Because she was worried about the knife.

Another police conspiracy against Americans?

I don't claim a deliberate conspiracy.

 

[Mary_H]

No, I amended that it was the GENETIC PROFILE of the victim.

When amending, it is customary to state you are amending, as you did in your following post, when you wrote, "Let me amend that to the accused murderer." As far as I knew, your last position was that you were "assuming" it was blood on the knife.

The assumption , seeing as she was stabbed to death and the accused's DNA was on the handle and the vicitm's DNA on the blade, is that it was blood.

Again, you're putting the cart before the horse. The point of finding blood on the knife is to ascertain whether the knife was the murder weapon. It is not acceptable to say, "This is the murder weapon, therefore, this must be blood."

What else would you suggest it was?

I would suggest there was nothing on the knife.

 

[Mary_H]

What is your scientific education if I might ask?

I am qualified to make the statements I have made. What is yours?

 

[moodstream]

The DNA was found embedded ina groove; possibly the bleach did not reach in there.

What is your source for the police officer amending his testimony that the apt. smelled of bleach?

I question this. Can 10 picograms of material embed itself? Can 10 or even 40 picograms get stuck? Is the molecular viscosity of liquid bleach thicker than a human cell, so that the cell could be somewhere that the bleach could not? Is the relation of the force of the liquid to 10 picograms such that the material would survive the flood of bleach?

Is seems like Stephanoni wanted to create the image of grunge stuck in a groove. But I think that that would require an order of magnitude of material several thousand times greater than what they had.

 

[RoseMontague]

When amending, it is customary to state you are amending, as you did in your following post, when you wrote, "Let me amend that to the accused murderer." As far as I knew, your last position was that you were "assuming" it was blood on the knife.

Again, you're putting the cart before the horse. The point of finding blood on the knife is to ascertain whether the knife was the murder weapon. It is not acceptable to say, "This is the murder weapon, therefore, this must be blood."

I would suggest there was nothing on the knife.

The question was asked why Massei does not mention this testimony from Putumi or Gino that Frank relates stating the very real possibility that there was no DNA on the knife blade.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

It was also stated that the defense and defense experts all agreed that Meredith's DNA was on the blade of the knife.

That is incorrect as Frank's quotes demonstrate as well as the four quotes I provided a few days ago from the appeals regarding this issue.