Is there an "atheist perspective"?

[Christian]

Another way to put this would be to ask if atheists have other common traits where one could predict their perspective. From the "ego" thread, I had an overwhelming negative response. (people here say no)

My hypothesis would read like this:

Atheists have other traits in common that allows to predict their perspective on a variety of topics or situations

Where do I come up with this idea? I speculate that atheism is a conviction that comes from a mental process. This particular process molds the brain to think and react in certain ways in specific situations. This molding affects the way individuals think, thus creating a distinct atheist perspective.

There are several ways to test this hypothesis, but I think a survey is a good start. We could survey 1,000 people (randomly picked around the world. We would survey more than 1,000 but would only consider the answers of those who are atheist, to mask the survey). We would have our same size control group where the common trait be something else. Then we would look for common traits.

It's important to point out that the most we could conclude is that the average atheist is more likely to be more of this or that. For example, the findings could be:

Atheist are more likely to be more contrarian than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely to be more skeptical than the general population, on average.
Atheist are more likely not to be believe in spirituality than the general population, on average.

And so forth.

From this, one can guess the general atheist perspective on specific topics, issues, etc.

This is only a mental exercise and pure speculation (on my part). I do think it is an interesting topic to consider.

 

[Sun Countess]

<snip>
Where do I come up with this idea? I speculate that atheism is a conviction that comes from a mental process. This particular process molds the brain to think and react in certain ways in specific situations. This molding affects the way individuals think, thus creating a distinct atheist perspective.

Some of us were raised without religion and are atheist by default. Do you believe that all theists have (some other) conviction that comes from a mental process? Does that process mold their brains to think and react in certain ways? Is there a distinct theist perspective?

This is only a mental exercise and pure speculation (on my part). I do think it is an interesting topic to consider.

How did you develop your thesis? Have you met a lot of atheists? Or are you just another theist who is here to tell atheists that s/he understands them better than they understand themselves?

 

[Christian]

Some of us were raised without religion and are atheist by default.

Yes, but you live in a world that is predominantly theist. And there is this idea that in evolutionary terms humans are predisposed to the supernatural. To fight both things (maybe other variables too) maybe a special mental process must take place.

Do you believe that all theists have (some other) conviction that comes from a mental process? Does that process mold their brains to think and react in certain ways? Is there a distinct theist perspective?

I don't know. I can speculate that one does not need much mental processing to believe in Gods or the supernatural. That it is easy, the path of least resistance, thus maybe a very weak mental process that renders no specific distinct perspective.

How did you develop your thesis?

Reading Shermer, Dawkings, Boyer and the like and many conversations and experiences.

Have you met a lot of atheists?

Yes.

Or are you just another theist who is here to tell atheists that s/he understands them better than they understand themselves?

No.

 

[Wolfman]

If your 'survey' were done in the U.S., you might get results that would support your claims; however, it would be drawing from an inherently biased pool. In the U.S. (and many other western nations), theism (particularly Christianity) tends to predominate; and being an atheist means being frequently challenged by others, and even facing discrimination and invisible barriers (ie. an atheist cannot work for the Boy Scouts of America; and an atheist faces a much more difficult time to gain an elected position in the U.S. gov't).

However, consider China. A country where atheism is the norm, and where being a theist is what will cause problems and questions. If you were to conduct such a survey here, I'd predict that your results would be pretty much the reverse of the results you got in the U.S.

So yes...you can draw some general suppositions about atheists who all come from a particular background; but as to atheists in general, no, it is a foolish and naive idea.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

There are as many atheist perspectives as there are atheists. I, for one, am sick to tears of people (usually, atheists, by the way) trying to fit all atheists into some ideological box or another.

 

[Christian]

However, consider China. A country where atheism is the norm, and where being a theist is what will cause problems and questions. If you were to conduct such a survey here, I'd predict that your results would be pretty much the reverse of the results you got in the U.S.

But you are only addressing environment, and this does not dispute that a view of the natural world must be adopted and maintained, regardless of this environment.

So yes...you can draw some general suppositions about atheists who all come from a particular background; but as to atheists in general, no, it is a foolish and naive idea.

And this is not a bad conclusion. I can agree with this.

 

[Christian]

There are as many atheist perspectives as there are atheists. I, for one, am sick to tears of people (usually, atheists, by the way) trying to fit all atheists into some ideological box or another.

No, I would not go that far. I would only make inferences of a particular population and whatever distribution with regards to perspective.

 

[lionking]

I'm curious where you are heading with this Christian. And don't say "just asking questions", I don't believe you.

 

[Wolfman]

But you are only addressing environment, and this does not dispute that a view of the natural world must be adopted and maintained, regardless of this environment.

Yes, "a view of the natural world must be adopted"...but that's a general statement that is true of everyone on the planet, regardless of their beliefs. As to defining a specific view of the natural world, beyond the fact that atheists believe no god is involved, pretty much anything else is wide open.

For example, people tend to equate atheism and evolution; but atheism existed long before the theory of evolution, and even today, there are atheists who don't believe in evolution (although admittedly they're a small minority); and a great many other atheists who might say that they believe in evolution, but who actually don't understand the first thing about what evolution is (and, in fact, have many misunderstandings about it).

I know atheists who believe in reincarnation (they just believe it is a result of a 'natural' process of birth and re-birth); I know atheists who believe in crystal power; I know atheists who believe in psychic phenomenon; in fact, atheists can believe in pretty much anything at all about the "natural world", so long as it doesn't involve the involvement of some kind of god.

In short, no...being an atheist doesn't mean that you'll have a particular world view, or a particular view of the natural world. Given particular environments, they may be predisposed to one particular view or another; but that is the result of the environment, not of them being an atheist.

 

[fromdownunder]

Atheists have other traits in common that allows to predict their perspective on a variety of topics or situations

OK, as an atheist, I will give you a brief idea as to what I do, and you can slot me into whatever perspective you have in mind. I am post several heart attacks, have bladder and spinal cancer, both in remission, and am retired.

I do 15 hours per week voluntary work for Uniting Care, which is a fairly secular arm of the Uniting Church (Protestant) which provides material relief (food, clothes and some advanced support) to people going through hard times.

I also collect stamps, and am an Admin. on what I believe is the Worlds biggest Stamp Board. I spent many years assisting on a voluntary basis in the local Sporting Club including Cricket, Hockey, Football, Softball and Baseball in various capacities.

I have three grown children, all of whom are card carrying Christians, and we get on extremely well. My son still visits me three times a week.

I enjoy classical music - Swan Lake being my absolute favourite (the music and the Ballet), but I enjoy much of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven, and essentially I stopped listening to modern music when the Beatles broke up, except for Karen Carpenter and ABBA, whom I saw live - two weeks pay to take my then wife and my then young kids. I adore Movies, and have Turner Classic Movies on TV most afternoons - you know all the old Black and White MGM stuff, but still like many modern movies. I actually cry whenever I watch various bits of Lassie Come Home.

I am a professional Wrestling fan, and Cena/Hunter/Orton are my current favourites. Foley is, despite his current antics, my all time favourite.

I have never read a book by Dawkins, but I have read a number of books about evolution and other popular science books. I have read the Bible and have four different hard copies and a CD containing 19 different version. I have a Qu'ran and a Book of Mormon which I sometimes reference, as well as the complete works of Robert A Heinlein and many hundreds of other books, mostly SF, but several by Leon Uris, whom I adore.

So, put me into wherever you think I fit in your one size fits all viewpoint.

Norm

 

[lionking]

Easy Norm. You are not a true atheist.

 

[Christian]

Yes, "a view of the natural world must be adopted"...but that's a general statement that is true of everyone on the planet, regardless of their beliefs. As to defining a specific view of the natural world, beyond the fact that atheists believe no god is involved, pretty much anything else is wide open.

For example, people tend to equate atheism and evolution; but atheism existed long before the theory of evolution, and even today, there are atheists who don't believe in evolution (although admittedly they're a small minority); and a great many other atheists who might say that they believe in evolution, but who actually don't understand the first thing about what evolution is (and, in fact, have many misunderstandings about it).

I know atheists who believe in reincarnation (they just believe it is a result of a 'natural' process of birth and re-birth); I know atheists who believe in crystal power; I know atheists who believe in psychic phenomenon; in fact, atheists can believe in pretty much anything at all about the "natural world", so long as it doesn't involve the involvement of some kind of god.

In short, no...being an atheist doesn't mean that you'll have a particular world view, or a particular view of the natural world. Given particular environments, they may be predisposed to one particular view or another; but that is the result of the environment, not of them being an atheist.

I can consider your position the null hypothesis. I'm not ready to accept it and think it is possible to reject it.

I don't think this null hypothesis can be accepted solely on logic.

 

[fromdownunder]

Easy Norm. You are not a true atheist.

Norm

 

[Christian]

OK, as an atheist, I will give you a brief idea as to what I do, and you can slot me into whatever perspective you have in mind. I am post several heart attacks, have bladder and spinal cancer, both in remission, and am retired.

I do 15 hours per week voluntary work for Uniting Care, which is a fairly secular arm of the Uniting Church (Protestant) which provides material relief (food, clothes and some advanced support) to people going through hard times.

I also collect stamps, and am an Admin. on what I believe is the Worlds biggest Stamp Board. I spent many years assisting on a voluntary basis in the local Sporting Club including Cricket, Hockey, Football, Softball and Baseball in various capacities.

I have three grown children, all of whom are card carrying Christians, and we get on extremely well. My son still visits me three times a week.

I enjoy classical music - Swan Lake being my absolute favourite (the music and the Ballet), but I enjoy much of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven, and essentially I stopped listening to modern music when the Beatles broke up, except for Karen Carpenter and ABBA, whom I saw live - two weeks pay to take my then wife and my then young kids. I adore Movies, and have Turner Classic Movies on TV most afternoons - you know all the old Black and White MGM stuff, but still like many modern movies. I actually cry whenever I watch various bits of Lassie Come Home.

I am a professional Wrestling fan, and Cena/Hunter/Orton are my current favourites. Foley is, despite his current antics, my all time favourite.

I have never read a book by Dawkins, but I have read a number of books about evolution and other popular science books. I have read the Bible and have four different hard copies and a CD containing 19 different version. I have a Qu'ran and a Book of Mormon which I sometimes reference, as well as the complete works of Robert A Heinlein and many hundreds of other books, mostly SF, but several by Leon Uris, whom I adore.

So, put me into wherever you think I fit in your one size fits all viewpoint.

Norm

Thanks for sharing, including the strawman.

 

[Christian]

I'm curious where you are heading with this Christian. And don't say "just asking questions", I don't believe you.

This time, I'm not asking a question. There is no hidden agenda. I think it is a valid exercise. I don't commit to any position in this matter, just think it is something to consider. Further, I think that if the hypothesis is correct, it is useful.

 

[fromdownunder]

I can consider your position the null hypothesis. I'm not ready to accept it and think it is possible to reject it.

I don't think this null hypothesis can be accepted solely on logic.

Translation:

"I am not going to even consider the slightest variation on what I actually believe, because if people state their viewpoints, and it does not compute with my preconceptions, then it must be wrong, because I am always right."

Norm

 

[fromdownunder]

Thanks for sharing, including the strawman.

Thanks for such an intelligent considered response.

Norm

 

[Robin]

There are as many atheist perspectives as there are atheists. I, for one, am sick to tears of people (usually, atheists, by the way) trying to fit all atheists into some ideological box or another.

There are no atheists in pigeonholes.

 

[Christian]

Translation:

"I am not going to even consider the slightest variation on what I actually believe, because if people state their viewpoints, and it does not
compute with my preconceptions, then it must be wrong, because I am always right."

Norm

This is clearly a strawman. Nowhere have I stated what I believe and I have not stated that anybody is wrong.

 

[fromdownunder]

This time, I'm not asking a question. There is no hidden agenda. I think it is a valid exercise. I don't commit to any position in this matter, just think it is something to consider. Further, I think that if the hypothesis is correct, it is useful.

It is only useful if you actually think about the responses you get, and then follow up with, ...you know... actual discussion. If you do not do this, then you are wasting your time, or just trolling.

Your responses on this and the earlier thread you started do not inspire a lot of confidence, so I suggest you start actually participating instead of posting one liners. You know, free and fearless discussion, and there are already a couple of responses which require such.

Norm