How far have we come with homosexuality?

openingmind

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How far do you think and feel society has come as regards to accepting homosexuality in the last twenty years?

What do you hold up as evidence of progress?

Where do you think society is stagnated on the issue?

What do you think are the worst arguments against homosexuality that you've heard, both in the then and now?

My own two-bits:

* As trite as it may be, I hold up gays in the mainstream media as a sign of progress. Twenty years ago a homosexual character in a sitcom was almost unheard of and now it's commonplace. Twenty years ago if there was a gay person on television it was probably a "very special episode" and it involved a man dying from AIDS. Now you see gay characters and their gayness isn't even a topic.

* A lot of headway seems to be made as regards the biological origin of homosexuality. Even Mormon professors at BYU support a biological theory:

http://mormonstories.org/?p=1158

* In contradiction of my last point: the Mormon "Prophet" recently publicly denounced homosexuality.

* On the other hand, LGBT support groups are now widely available to high school students.

That's just off the top of my head.

What do you think?
 
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How far have we come with homosexuality?

I don't know about you, but I'm starting to get "Achievement Unlocked!" messages.
 
What do you think are the worst arguments against homosexuality that you've heard, both in the then and now?
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The < Insert "Holy" book > says it is forbidden.
 
How far have we come ? I am not sure. I haven't recently found animated media (games, film, cartoon) which did not portray homosexualy as anything but mockery. Once those media give up the "funny prejudice" en masse, and starts portraying the homosexual in a non charicatural way, maybe one can tell there was progress.
 
In the United States, which I think the OP is referring to, I think marriage equality is very much lacking.
 
openingmind said:
What do you think are the worst arguments against homosexuality that you've heard, both in the then and now?
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"Homosexuals are overrepresented in pedophilic crimes."


This is, of course, an equivocation of "homosexual pedophilia" and the sexual orientation homosexuality, which seem to have surprisingly little to do with each other.
 
Outside the ghettos how often do you see two men holding hands or having a quick kiss in the high street? (And I exclude women because that is acceptable behaviour for heterosexual women.)

Nearly thirty years ago, when I was a bolshie teenager, I would walk down Market street in Manchester holding hands with my boyfriend- today although in a legally recognised civil partnership I would not do that.

ETA: Posting the above reminded me of a documentary style programme that was on TV a little bit ago. It was presented by a sportsman who had recently "come out" and in that programme they had two young men walk down a couple of high streets in Wigan and Leigh and when the camera was in plain-sight there was grudging "well I suppose it's OK but I don't like it" style responses, they also filmed them with no camera visible and the response was quite different, the taunts started pretty much immediately.
 
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My guess is that Evangelical Christians 25 and younger are more comfortable and accepting of homosexuality than left-leaning people 60 and older.

It's a generational thing. Not that there aren't still issues.
 
Aepervius said:
Once those media give up the "funny prejudice" en masse, and starts portraying the homosexual in a non charicatural way, maybe one can tell there was progress.
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I understand what you're saying here, but I think there are TV shows that are doing this. Take The United States of Tara and how it deals with the son's homosexuality -- the family doesn't even make an issue of it and it certainly isn't mocked. (The first season just shows the issues of being gay in high school and being attracted to someone who isn't necessarily gay too.)
 
openingmind said:
How far do you think and feel society has come as regards to accepting homosexuality in the last twenty years?
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Not very far at all -- never confuse motion with progress.
openingmind said:
What do you hold up as evidence of progress?
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Greater indifference towards celebrities who "come out".
openingmind said:
What do you think society is stagnated on the issue?
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The growing realization that homosexuality does not equate with greatness ... or failure, for that matter.
openingmind said:
What do you think are the worst arguments against homosexuality that you've heard, both in the then and now?
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"Tain't naturrl"
"God hates fags"
"... gays ... pedos ... same-same ..."
openingmind said:
What do you think?
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I wonder where the "gay community" was when the civil rights movement was being led by the likes of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and company. I also wonder where the "gay community" gets off trying to gain support from the "black community" after not having been visibly supportive of the civil rights movement in the 1960s.

Look, what any two or more consenting adults do in private is nobody's business but their own. I just don't want to hear about it, whether they're straight or otherwise.

What bugs me are those who are "openly" gay, and who demand that I show them more respect for no other reason than they're gay. I'd rather have the freedom to give my respect to someone who excels in some profession, skill, talent or craft that has nothing to do with their preferred sexual activities. For example, Elton John is a great composer, singer and pianist, and for those things, I respect and admire him. But if he ever starts demanding that the world give him even greater honor for being gay, then my respect for him will likely end.

I mean, "they" don't exactly give out Nobel prizes for heterosexuality, so why should homosexuality receive any greater honor than what heterosexuality receives (or vice-versa)? I know ... false analogy ... but why should one form have greater honor or respect than the other? Why should those who practice one form or the other demand greater respect or honor for nothing more than their prefered sexual activity?
 
Yeah, twenty years ago you heard "God says it's wrong" and today you hear "God says it's wrong."

The homosexuality=pedophilia argument has always been backroom type of talk, I think. I don't remember it being bandied about in public very much twenty years ago.

The bland argument that bothers me the most is "It's unnatural." I think that argument is getting harder to harder to make with all the biological evidence, but people are still finding a way.
 
openingmind said:
I understand what you're saying here, but I think there are TV shows that are doing this. Take The United States of Tara and how it deals with the son's homosexuality -- the family doesn't even make an issue of it and it certainly isn't mocked. (The first season just shows the issues of being gay in high school and being attracted to someone who isn't necessarily gay too.)
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The BBC has recently released the results of their research into the portrayal of gay and lesibian people on TV: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/reports/pdf/diversity_research_300910.pdf

Article about it: http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory...-research-into-lesbian-and-gay-portrayal.aspx
 
Fnord said:
I wonder where the "gay community" was when the civil rights movement was being led by the likes of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and company. I also wonder where the "gay community" gets off trying to gain support from the "black community" after not having been visibly supportive of the civil rights movement in the 1960s.
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What about Stonewall?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots
 
TraneWreck said:
My guess is that Evangelical Christians 25 and younger are more comfortable and accepting of homosexuality than left-leaning people 60 and older.

It's a generational thing. Not that there aren't still issues.
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I tend to disagree.
Look at the "Yes on Prop 8" rallies and the "No on prop 8" rallies.
Both are widely mixed in terms of age.

While I do think it's a factor, religious and political messages are stronger.
I can't think of a single self identified liberal I know, of any age, who's in favor of outlawing gay marriage.
 
Fnord said:
...snip...

I wonder where the "gay community" was when the civil rights movement was being led by the likes of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and company. I also wonder where the "gay community" gets off trying to gain support from the "black community" after not having been visibly supportive of the civil rights movement in the 1960s.

...snip...
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Which "gay community"?
 
Fnord said:
I wonder where the "gay community" was when the civil rights movement was being led by the likes of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and company. I also wonder where the "gay community" gets off trying to gain support from the "black community" after not having been visibly supportive of the civil rights movement in the 1960s.
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There wasn't much of a gay community because being gay was still classified as a disease back then.

Where were they? They were staying in the freaking closet because coming out could easily cost them their friendships, their jobs, their families and even their lives.
 
Well, again, check out the Stonewall Riots in New York (1969). That was a huge moment for gay civil rights and led the way to gay pride parades, which have been happening since 1970.
 
How do you respond to people who, hearing the biological evidence, say "It's still an aberration." (As if because homosexuality occurs at only ~5%, or whichever figure you want, that it's invalid or a biological mistake.)
 
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