Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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cooperman said:
I don't know.
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There were no eyewitnesses reports of noises consistent in timing, loudness and brisance with man-made demolition. There were no injuries or deaths with symptoms consistent with man-made explosions.

When considered with all the evidence and eyewitness accounts and the tabulation of the causes of death and types of injuries, the most likely explanation for the lack of barotrauma is the absence of man-made explosives at WTC on 9/11.

WTC was awash in first-responders trained to see the signs of explosives and search dogs trained to smell them. Nobody saw or smelled anything.
 
cooperman said:
I have no idea what it was. For the sake of argument lets go with that and rule out CD charges or bombs. What do you think it was?
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Debris, bodies, confused BBC reporter (about the timing), something falling down the elevator shafts, airplane parts, cars exploding, a janitor farting. There are tons of guesses I have. What you don't have is the sound loud enough to be even closely compared to a CD.
 
BigAl said:
There were no eyewitnesses reports of noises consistent in timing, loudness and brisance with man-made demolition. There were no injuries or deaths with symptoms consistent with man-made explosions.
When considered with all the evidence and eyewitness accounts and the tabulation of the causes of death and types of injuries, the most likely explanation for the lack of barotrauma is the absence of man-made explosives at WTC on 9/11.

WTC was awash in first-responders trained to see the signs of explosives and search dogs trained to smell them. Nobody saw or smelled anything.
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The bolded statement is ridiculous. 1500 people completely disappeared. They were reduced to nothing in the collapses and no trace of them has been found. The other victims were mostly in pieces. How do you know what injuries they sustained before or during collapse?

The search dogs were looking for people, not explosives. No search was ever made for explosives. If you believe it was then prove it.

You are right that first responders will look for explosives. Albert Turi, chief of safety for the FDNY, was convinced there were secondary devices,
 
cooperman said:
They were in a different building, How do you know how loud it would be.
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Because lots of them said what they heard was "like an explosion."

Cherry-picked quotes from North-tower firemen make up the majority of the "Truth Movement's" claim that firemen heard explosions.
 
BigAl said:
Because lots of them said what they heard was "like an explosion."

Cherry-picked quotes from North-tower firemen make up the majority of the "Truth Movement's" claim that firemen heard explosions.
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Take that up with the majority of the truth movement. I would like you to address what Steven Evans said.
 
cooperman said:
The bolded statement is ridiculous. 1500 people completely disappeared. They were reduced to nothing in the collapses and no trace of them has been found. The other victims were mostly in pieces. How do you know what injuries they sustained before or during collapse?

...
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Why were people crushed in a 130 TONS of TNT KE collapse of one WTC tower, followed by another? The energy of over 260 2,000 pounds bombs in a KE collapse and you make the ridiculous statement in your post? It is called physics.

There were zero explosives used to bring down the WTC towers and WTC 7. There are ideas like your ideas based on ignorance. Do you try to do the physics on why the bodies were destroyed before you post the moronic attempt at backing the delusional CD claims?
 
cooperman said:
They were in a different building, How do you know how loud it would be.
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I certainly don't expect it to be absolutely quiet all the way up to the point where they were already running for cover because the debris was hitting the ground.

cooperman said:
Are you suggesting that he made this up? Why would he say that if it wasn't really what he had experienced?
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Whatever he's referring to it's certainly not an explosion that can be associated with the use of detonated devices, something would have been readily apparent in the naudet footage which was in close enough proximity to have caught anything of that magnitude with far more clarity than you could ever want. My guess is he was talking about the collapse of the building and the noise that the debris was generating, at least given the audio angle that is provided by the video.

Speaking of which I looked at his interview just now, and it reveals another interesting factoid:

http://www.archive.org/details/bbc200109111531-1613?start=400

No loud bangs preceding the collapse of WTC 1 either.

This is rather troublesome, the audio evidence from both videos doesn't suggest anything to do with explosive detonations...
 
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cooperman said:
The bolded statement is ridiculous. 1500 people completely disappeared. They were reduced to nothing in the collapses and no trace of them has been found. The other victims were mostly in pieces. How do you know what injuries they sustained before or during collapse?
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And none of the bodies and none of the injured people show any signs of barotrauma. Doctors and medical examiners know what the symptoms are.

The search dogs were looking for people, not explosives. No search was ever made for explosives. If you believe it was then prove it.
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Source: Bomb Squad - A Year Inside the Nation's Most Exclusive Police Unit by Richard Esposito and Ted Gerstein


You are right that first responders will look for explosives. Albert Turi, chief of safety for the FDNY, was convinced there were secondary devices,
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Here's what Turi really said:

And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out.
http://911review.com/coverup/oralhistories.html
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And here’s the full quote, with what immediately followed:

And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower,somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. i later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the ai:r being compressed and that is the floor that let go.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Turi_Albert.txt
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cooperman said:
Take that up with the majority of the truth movement. I would like you to address what Steven Evans said.
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Is this your best piece of evidence for CD?

Why don't you supply the evidence to back up Steven Evans statement. Got evidence? Anything? no

Is it Steven, Steve, or Stephen? A news guy? Like Fox? BBC, like the guys I listened in Desert Storm while watching the SCUD attacks in Riyadh, the intellectual sounding guys, or the sensational ones?

A new reporter? Has he been in combat? Does he support 911 truth's idiotic CD fantasy?

Do you have a transcript of his complete story, his ideas; context? Are you quote mining again? source?
 
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BigAl said:
And none of the bodies and none of the injured people show any signs of barotrauma. Doctors and medical examiners know what the symptoms are.

Source: Bomb Squad - A Year Inside the Nation's Most Exclusive Police Unit by Richard Esposito and Ted Gerstein





Here's what Turi really said:



And here’s the full quote, with what immediately followed:
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WAIT A DAMN MINUTE....do you mean to tell me that there has been more quote mining ???? NO WAY !!
 
cooperman said:
I am not mixing details up.
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No of course not, why would someone think that?

Oh I know, does One Meridian Plaze ring a bell?

Steven Evans, the BBC journalist, described a huge explosion at the base of the South Tower, just before it collapsed. That is an hour after the plane hit.
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Source?



Funny this guy didn't hear a thing:

James Barrett from Big Al's link

I was in the building when both planes hit but I didn’t hear a thing,” said Barrett, who has spent 22 of his 39 years keeping the World Trade Center clean and operating smoothly.
 
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beachnut said:
Why don't you supply the evidence to back up Steven Evans statement. Got evidence? Anything? no
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See what Evans really heard and said (pgs 68-69.)

The cherry-picked Evans quote is an example of the "Truth Movement's" abuse of ellipses. There are more than 100 ellipses in the documents on the Journal of 911 Studies web site and in essentially every instance these are fireman's quotes and the ellipses were put there to hide inconvenient truths, that the firemen knew that what they called explosions were anything but CD.
 
BigAl said:
See what Evans really heard and said (pgs 68-69.)

The cherry-picked Evans quote is an example of the "Truth Movement's" abuse of ellipses. There are more than 100 ellipses in the documents on the Journal of 911 Studies web site and in essentially every instance these are fireman's quotes and the ellipses were put there to hide inconvenient truths, that the firemen knew that what they called explosions were anything but CD.
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Cooperman quote mining again? :eye-poppi

I wonder if he'll run away from this thread too.
 
BigAl said:
See what Evans really heard and said (pgs 68-69.)

The cherry-picked Evans quote is an example of the "Truth Movement's" abuse of ellipses. There are more than 100 ellipses in the documents on the Journal of 911 Studies web site and in essentially every instance these are fireman's quotes and the ellipses were put there to hide inconvenient truths, that the firemen knew that what they called explosions were anything but CD.
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Hey, heres an idea. Instead of reading Mackey's critique of Griffins summary of Evans' statements about something completely different, why don't we watch a nice video of Steven Evans describing the explosion I am talking about, that he personally experienced an hour after the sevond plane hit.

Is that a good idea?

Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UlJVibz7Dg
 
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cooperman said:
Take that up with the majority of the truth movement. I would like you to address what Steven Evans said.
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The BBC News article leaves no doubt that Mr. Evans is describing the secondary explosions caused by aircraft fuel, shortly after the aircraft impact. Evans’ initial statement was less definite, but there can be no question from the follow-up. We therefore understand these explosions to be due to the large quantities of fuel that flowed down the elevator shafts immediately after the collision. In any event, since they took place very shortly after impact, they cannot be triggering events for the collapse.​
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Oops, 911 truth does not do research, they do quote mining and lies.

http://www.911myths.com/drg_nist_review_2_0.pdf BigAl did your research for you.

A good idea would be to stop believing the delusions of 911 truth. Any chance of that?
 
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cooperman said:
Hey, heres an idea. Instead of reading Mackey's critique of Griffins summary of Evans' statements about something completely different, why don't we watch a nice video of Steven Evans describing the explosion I am talking about, that he personally experienced an hour after the sevond plane hit.

Is that a good idea?

Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UUVibz7Dg
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The URL contained a malformed video ID.

More truther fail.
 
ProBonoShill said:
The URL contained a malformed video ID.

More truther fail.
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It is fixed. Perhaps you would like to watch it and then retract your quote mining claim.

What I call fail is posting a paper by Mackey which discusses some completely different quotes from Evans that I have never mentioned.

Why do you guys have such trouble staying on topic? I am talking specifically about an explosion he heard himself an hour after the plane hit. Nothing else.
 
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