Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[pilot padron]

Pilot padron,

I was not sure whether or not you had claimed that bloggers were being paid. I am glad that you do not seem to think so, but my reason for commenting was also to clarify that point for everyone else.

I cannot entirely agree with you about the overall media coverage in the United States. Newsweek used Barbie Nadeau for its coverage. Both Ann Coulter and Wendy Murphy wrote essays that leaned toward guilt (both also had factual errors). My point is that there was not a uniformity of coverage in the U.S. Moreover, PR is not a dirty word in a case like this where a defendant is subjected to a great deal of pretrial publicity. I would have hired a PR firm if I had been in the same position. It all depends on the specifics of what the PR firm is doing.

Your opinion on the CBS reporting would be a good starting point for further discussion if you gave some specifics of examples of biased or factually incorrect reporting.

Your customary courtesy and correctness is acknowledged; an oft perceived combination (not shared by all) that I sincerely admire (and find challenging when proffering rebuttal ).

1) My now accepted as unacceptable overstatement about *all* media is hereby retracted with accompanying appetizer of crow au gratin consumed.
My intention was only to cite the three major US TV networks and definitely not all encompassing of 'media'.

Permit me to now say only I personally also believe CBS to be "least balanced" of the unbalanced 3.
(Fox had very limited programming about Knox case, as did CNN et al)
May I make a plea to your charitable attributes to allow me to hopefully support that to your satisfaction at a later date.
It is a rather wide topic, and in acquiescence to the "evidence based/oriented objectives here, feel free with no rancor from me to disregard my belief until adequately cited.

I have not completed my submissions about Marriott's activities and prefer to devote my resources (limited mental and communication skills to that topic before tackling media..

2) PR is indeed not a 'dirty word'.
My choice in pursuing this Marriott topic is to (in favored terminology here) whack the mole that Marriott is either not involved at all or not involved in significant and far reaching (albeit IMHO of questionable effectiveness) activities on behalf of Ms Knox

PS my self esteem as noted in (1) of previous post also duly appreciates your response

 

[Katody Matrass]

_______________

I wasn't being facetious Kevin when I asked about ROLAIDS, but perhaps naive. If Meredith chewed a couple tablets of antacids after dinner---NOT an uncommon action--- could that have substantially retarded her digestion timing? What research did you find on this subject.

///

That's interesting. Do we have some evidence that would indicate so? Her friends' statement or maybe an empty container found in the trash?

 

[Machiavelli]

Which scientists and/or medics assert that a small-to-moderate sized meal whose ingestion began around 6.30pm would still remain wholly within the stomach of a healthy adult at 11.30pm? PLEASE tell us all which scientists/medics would make this assertion!

No I will not tell you - although I could - because the assertion is not required.

 

[Katody Matrass]

My choice in pursuing this Marriott topic is to (in favored terminology here) whack the mole that Marriott is either not involved at all or not involved in significant and far reaching (albeit IMHO of questionable effectiveness) activities on behalf of Ms Knox

I think you're tilting at windmills here.
Does anyone really said that Marriott company is not involved/hired? Isn't it a public knowledge?

Unless you agree with some that Marriott hires bloggers to write about it and spam fora 24/7.

 

[LondonJohn]

No I will not tell you - although I could - because the assertion is not required.

I'm afraid that I don't understand anything about what you've written here. Please could you explain further what you mean? Or will you merely reply that you will not explain further - although you could....?

 

[Justinian2]

It is doubtful that her cell connected to a cell tower not in its range of operations (but I’m no expert, just going by the Massei report). The alternative is that she was, in fact, somewhere in the center of town that did connect to a cell tower servicing that area.


I love your perception. I honestly don’t know what to make of Patrick’s SMS to Amanda. The following is purely speculation and it has nothing to do with whether Amanda or Raffaele had anything to do with Meredith’s murder but here goes:

If Amanda was simply on her way to work when she received Patrick’s SMS message (even if it was two hours before the start of her shift), why not state that during the numerous opportunities she had to do so? Could it be because she was doing something that would be incriminating or merely embarrassing (e.g., buying drugs)?

According to Amanda, Patrick sent a text message to her saying not to come into work because no one was there. However, this test message was sent 45 minutes before he opened the pub. There is no factual evidence as to what the text message actually said. Is it possible the message said, “Sorry Amanda I couldn’t score the drugs you were looking for.”

Again this is pure speculation, but it does explain the inconsistencies in the narrative. It explains why Amanda did not say she was out of RS’s apartment when she received the text from Patrick. It explains why Massei may think she was on her way to work two hours before the start of her shift. It explains why Patrick would have texted her 45 minutes before he opened the pub.

It just dawned on me that I used to use text messaging at places where the signal was too weak for voice. As a consultant, I've lived at places in Canada and remote areas of other states that got either weak or intermittant service. The trouble with reception in Canada was that I was between two towers. The one with the stronger signal wouldn't reciprocate with the American carrier. Thus when my cell phone decided to connect to the Canadian tower, it would drop the tower that would reciprocate, and the phone call would be lost.

However, text messaging worked because it could be sent in one packet. The towers parse communications out packet by packet. Packets aren't split. Text messages will work with weak signals.

People seem to forget that AK, RS and Guede are the ONLY people that know what did or did not happen in their lives. Anybody else that claims to know for sure can justifiably be considered evil. Amanda was likely telling the truth while Massie was likely fabricating stories and evidence.

 

[Machiavelli]

Do you see any connection between what "New Yorker" wrote and the "typical Italian tendency" to not come forward as a witness? How about between what you wrote in your last paragraph and the reluctance of people to come forward as witnesses? Do you think the laws followed the people's tendencies, or the people's tendencies followed the laws?

I don't think we can consider the law and the judiciary as reality existing by thmselves independently from the human society. Written laws, customs, practical conditions, culture, all make a system with each other.
I don't agree with the New Yorker as long as it is referred to the the specific crime of calunnia. I don't think the statute of calunnia is what prevents witnesses from coming forward. In some degree a discouraging factor it could be the legal and practical condition of witness itself. Actually i don't think the legal aspect of being a witness is even the most important. The heavviest consequences of being a witness are perceived as social. I recall Roberto Saviano in his famous book gave the description of some cases of people who fell into a state of social disgrace for having been labelled as "witnesses". In a very imprecise comparison to give an idea, sometimes saying "i'm a witness" could be like saying "I'm a Vietnam veteran". You are perceived like a source of contamination, people don't like to see you.

 

[LondonJohn]

That's interesting. Do we have some evidence that would indicate so? Her friends' statement or maybe an empty container found in the trash?

Not only that, but I suspect that antacid medications would be revealed on any toxicology tests performed on the stomach contents (a normal procedure in the case of forensic autopsies).

But hey, while we're making groundless speculations on things like antacid tablets, why not push the boat out and suppose that Meredith vomited up the pizza she ate at around 6.30pm, then she diverted to a pizza parlour after leaving Sophie and picked up another slice which she ate at around 9pm?

Hmmmmm............

 

[Katody Matrass]

Thank you Katody, I was starting to think a lot of folks have me on ignore either because of my disagreeable nature or the fact I suspended myself for 3 days. LOL.

The "shutter opening tool" in Part I is pretty funny, in my opinion, Dr. Waterbury nails it down with an iron nail. I would like to bring up again just a few quotes from the various reports regarding the shutters, just to point out that believing the shutters were tightly closed takes a real leap of imagination.

From the quotes in your post it appears that thing Filomena was certain about is that she opened the shutters for light. She is certain that she closed the window - that's reasonable because it was cold.
But she is obviously not sure about closing the shutters or even pulling them together. She emphasizes she was in a hurry, and her remark about how they couldn't be shut tight anyway looks like an unspoken admission that she didn't close them.

At least that's what statement analysis tells me

IIRC Rudy wrote in his diary that the shutters were open. I think that might be so and I guess that helped him with choosing this particular window as a target for the rock-throw.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm afraid that I don't understand anything about what you've written here.

It means, if you want to believe to guilt, there is no need to ask for "one doctor who supports this assertion", because there is no need of that specific assertion in order to support guilt.

 

[Justinian2]

I've heard of people conspiring to murder for insurance money or inheritance. That's one type of murder conspiracy.

Another type is where a killer is paid to murder.

Another type is for love.

Another type is by a cult or family that is like a close-knit terrorist cell.

However, this Massie concept of a conspiracy between Guede, AK and RS is totally new. I don't believe that this type of conspiracy has ever happened. I doubt that this type of conspiracy has ever happened.

I can't believe that ANYBODY could believe this conspiracy. Again, I find myself dead ended in total unbelievability! Remember the expression "All paths lead to Rome"? Well, all paths in this case lead to total unbelievability.

 

[odeed]

Not only that, but I suspect that antacid medications would be revealed on any toxicology tests performed on the stomach contents (a normal procedure in the case of forensic autopsies).

But hey, while we're making groundless speculations on things like antacid tablets, why not push the boat out and suppose that Meredith vomited up the pizza she ate at around 6.30pm, then she diverted to a pizza parlour after leaving Sophie and picked up another slice which she ate at around 9pm?

Hmmmmm............

How would an antacid show up in a toxicology test?

 

[LondonJohn]

How would an antacid show up in a toxicology test?

Antacids typically contain salts of calcium, aluminium or magnesium. These metal ions would be detectable in toxicology examinations of stomach contents.

 

[pilot padron]

I think you're tilting at windmills here.
Does anyone really said that Marriott company is not involved/hired? Isn't it a public knowledge?

Unless you agree with some that Marriott hires bloggers to write about it and spam fora 24/7.

Please allow me to ask if you read L.J's post that I am responding to:

I reproduce same for your perusal.
(excuse newbee format shortcomings)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
London John: "I'm suggesting that they are not setting up advocacy groups, or paying for bloggers, or lobbying politicians, or planting media stories."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As stated, I concur with the reluctance and repugnace when someone requires a mole whack, or as you suggest expends unproductive effort emitting gaseous body emissions to try an influence a windmill.

However, I personally believe now that all L.J's suggestions are *possibly* incorrect and *positively* warrant closer examination.

Does that negate the windmill analogy sufficiently ??
As a newbie, have all protocols of this distinguished body been completely complied with ??
.
Using lack of rebuttals as only available criteria, I also have to assume (as additional negation to you), those that I have elaborated on to date are accepted by all here who have read so far, including Mr L.J.

I intend to discuss advocay and bloggers soon to complete the full repudiation process

Finally, with appropriate respect, and regard for Forum protocol would you agree that time spent responding to a criticism from someone apparently very *superficially informed* due to lack of full familiarity with subject posts, is almost as unproductive as the above mole whacks and gaseous emissions ??

 

[Chris C]

My comments in blue font.

Yeah, well the cell records for meredith's phone says it left her apartment before 10pm yet the prosecution says otherwise.

 

[Chris C]

But.... I am wrong on what?

Amanda was not at Raffaele's wehn she got the message and answeres, that is for sure. There is nothing to guess. I can't be wrong on this, and this is the only observation.

What she was doing and where she was exactly, I don't know. Whoever has precise references and information to infer something more, can indicate here their sources.

P.S. Please, don't cite Candace Dempsey

At what time did patrick send the message?

 

[odeed]

Antacids typically contain salts of calcium, aluminium or magnesium. These metal ions would be detectable in toxicology examinations of stomach contents.

All of those metals would be found in food, such as fruits, bread, cheese and meat.

 

[bucketoftea]

Antacids typically contain salts of calcium, aluminium or magnesium. These metal ions would be detectable in toxicology examinations of stomach contents.

Can you cite that, please?

 

[LondonJohn]

Can you cite that, please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_toxicology

Look in the "other" section.

I'm not too sure why this is even important anyhow - there's zero evidence that Meredith had taken any stomach acid buffering medication on the day she died.

 

[odeed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_toxicology

Look in the "other" section.

I'm not too sure why this is even important anyhow - there's zero evidence that Meredith had taken any stomach acid buffering medication on the day she died.

You mean this

... Using it as a guide to the time of death, however, is theoretically unsound and presents many practical difficulties, although it may have limited applicability in some exceptional instances. Generally, using stomach contents as a guide to time of death involves an unacceptable degree of imprecision and is thus liable to mislead the investigator and the court

hmmm...